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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 16:55:19 GMT -5
One of my hob youngsters is a bit shirty with his hormones for my liking. Not with me, but with his half brother and even a little neanderthalish with jills too.
I have mated him up this year and am considering, once his litter has safely arrived, implanting him to calm him down and get him back with his brother sometime.
My question is... has anyone successfully used a hob for breeding after being implanted?
I might in the future want to breed Ash again, but it's doubtful that I will want to breed him next year.
Just trying to make a decision on what to do really.
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Post by Heather on Apr 16, 2016 17:11:13 GMT -5
At one time there used to be a disclaimer on the site (it seems to be gone now) but it stated that this was never to be used on breed stock (meaning it was to be used in place of a spay or neuter but not as a temporary fix). I know my vet does not like this product for use on breeding race horses and has discouraged it's use on anything but adrenal issues in ferrets. It had some issues that when the vets raised these possibilities with the manufacturer they said it was inconclusive. I know that some people have used this on hobs who were later used for what appears to be successful litters. I've spoken with some breeders and they will not use this product or advocate the use of this product because there was no testing for the possible use of the implanted hobs at a later date for breeding. Concerns that have been raised are what possible defects in offspring (gods knows we've got enough problems without adding any more). My vet mentioned lower sperm counts, not coming back into season or the incapacity to perform and the lack of desire in horses. They did find it useful in creating a false heat in both dogs and horses. In jills this product can and does induce sterility.
I would suggest looking to any studies you can find as a vet you have a greater access to studies than we do. We can only offer what we've heard.
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 4:59:04 GMT -5
From searching the literature, there are small studies in tomcats and dogs showing return to fertility (assessing testicular size, blood testosterone levels and spermatogenesis) BUT none so far for ferrets.
I have only ever used des implants in jills that I never intend to breed, and have found that they haven't yet come back into season (and probably never will) but in a case where it would be problematic to leave them entire, I do prefer an implant to spaying.
The only hob I have used the implant in so far is an adrenal hob ...
I think I may have to use anecdotes and perhaps cautiously extrapolate some of the available studies to make my decision.
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Post by crazylady on Apr 17, 2016 12:19:37 GMT -5
Hi vicki anne I have been all over the world and seen ferrets that have been implanted ( some even had them implanted thinking it was a safe guard against adrenal ) but they where mostly implanted so the owners could continue showing and breed from them later I know a lot have come across problems when trying to eventually breed either the jills produced tiny litters or non at all and some of the hobs where unsuccessful in the quest to breed the question is all up in the air personally I wont implant as for young hob often its there first hot flush of hormones by the age of four they normally mellow down lol good luck take care bye for now
Bev
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 12:36:08 GMT -5
Ah that's interesting to know. Perhaps I won't implant him until I'm sure I won't want to breed him again.
His hormones are no more than a normal in-season hob but my trouble is I have been spoilt by Marley, Sydney and now Eli. Eli's full brother Logan is very much the same and quite the gentleman so far, but their half brother Ash has gone back to a more typical hob with getting the arse all the while!
It's a shame because Eli really would like some company, but Ash doesn't seem so bothered ... may have to find Eli some friends bless him for season time if Ash is going to be a little menace to him.
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Post by crazylady on Apr 18, 2016 12:22:02 GMT -5
LoL its funny how brothers play the you be jill game I have four big albino brothers who live together year round all are whole they never break the skin but definatly try it on if you know what I mean lol I always know who is playing jill that week because that hob sports a horrible yellow patch ( from brothers grabbing and sucking his neck softening the oils in the hair shaft ) I look in when I feed them every day and can spot it straight away my son calls it the halo or the ferret who has the ring of confidence lol take care bye for now
Bev
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Post by maja01 on Apr 19, 2016 14:04:10 GMT -5
Yes, phisicaly it is usually possible to get the implant out and ferret (of both sexes) goes to heat and can be mated. I am just not a fan of this, i totally agree with Heather and so does the disclamer on the implant says - don't use on breeding stock.
I know of quite some european breeders do that (most of them on hobs, but some also with jills).
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flamecat
New member
breeder of the Royal Harbor Ferretry (Russian Ferret Club)
Posts: 21 
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Post by flamecat on Dec 16, 2016 8:28:36 GMT -5
I have a ferret (my champagne colored hob Shrek, standard type of hair) that was implanted in his first season, he was about 10 months old at that time. He smoothly went out of season. Then, 7 months later, we surgically removed the implant. Shrek got into season within 1 month and from that time is in breeding every season. He is 4,5 years old now, many times Dad and Granpa. No problems with kits, all jills he mated got pregnant and delivered babies just fine. Year 2017 is going to be his last in breeding, I will implant him again at the end of next season.
A friend of mine, also a ferret breeder (MoccoGrace ferretry, Russian Ferret Club) has an agora female in breeding that was implanted and then the implant was removed surgically. The jill is in breeding also now, pregnancies are normal, no problems with kits.
Such practice (expecially with hobs) is quiet common actually.
I talked to many vets on this matter. In Russia Suprelorin implant is used as "breeding control" not only for ferrets, but for dogs and cats also. Cat and dog owners use implants to control when their animal should go into season (for example, a person wants a dog to go in heat when a special male arrives from different part of the world).
So if there is a hob or jill that should not be in season - you can implant her. Then you can take the implant off surgically. You can also wait for it to dissolve - but that might take for up to 3,5 years, too long, I guess. The thing is: such breeding control IS expensive... Not everyone will decide to do so because of the price for Suprelorin implant + then surgically removing the implant.
There was also a "quick test" done by one of our veterinarians, she has 3 jills that were implanted in their first heat. The implant lasted for 3 years. Then the vet performed the ovariohysterectomy (removed the ovaries and uterus) to see the condition after 3 years with implants. The research has shown none of these 3 jills had problems, the ovaries and uterus were totally normal. They were fully reproductive, so could be used for breeding after removing the implants.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2016 11:48:08 GMT -5
Thank you flamecat for your reply. Interesting to know that this has been found to work. I have heard of being used in that way in hobs over here. I am a little uncomfortable with surgical removal of the implant, simply because it's another anaesthetic with all the risks that is not necessary for health reasons. I didn't end up implanting Ash, and he is now back with his half brother, as well as his nephew and another young hob ... we will see what next year brings when all the hormones get involved. Cost-wise I am not too worried about because I'm a vet so I do get certain things at cost price, which makes a difference. I also would rather spend the extra to do what is right for my ferrets' quality of life. |
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flamecat
New member
breeder of the Royal Harbor Ferretry (Russian Ferret Club)
Posts: 21
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Post by flamecat on Dec 17, 2016 12:13:40 GMT -5
Vicki-Ann,
Surgical removal is just fine for us though. We only work with gas anesthesia (isoflurane mostly), ferrets tend to be just fine after it (as far as I know, many vets even prefer to use isoflurane for the implantation of Suprelorin. But I put the implant without any anaesthetic - the implantation is a 1 minute business =) ). Anyway before removing an implant I prefer to do a heart check-up, to see if anesthesia can be done.
In Russia Suprelorin is getting cheaper nowadays and depends on euro rate. We can now buy it officially (about 5 years ago we could only bring it from Europe, since Des was not licensed in our country). Many ferret-owners still find it expensive, but as for me: I think it is not expensive if a person keeps in mind future problems of surgical neutering.
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