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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 22:09:06 GMT -5
So, I have planned on getting a ferret from the local petshop (when I do my little guy will be about 6 weeks old), but I want to do as much research as possible in the mean time to make sure I can provide the best care possible to my new little guy.  First, I am barley understanding the full concept of whole prey and Franken pray. I understand the just of it, and that it is important to provide a variety, and yet balanced diet… not sure what “balanced” would be yet. But, here are some thoughts and questions I have so far ; -I think I would like to go fully whole pray, but I don’t want him to become bored with the options I have available, I was thinking I could expose him to many different whole pray often so he imprints on a wide variety? (mice, chicks, quail, anole lizards(?), rabbit, rats, …what other things do ferrets eat? Are their any whole prey that are not good for them?) -I am very confused on what a balanced diet is, I know they need at least 3 different proteins, does this simply mean 3 different animals? (ex. Mice, rats, quail?) and if they have a whole prey diet, doesn't that almost guaranteed to be balanced because the whole prey has all, organs, meat, bones, fur/feathers? Or am I missing something ? (I don't know anything about micronutrients yet! ...I have a heard enough time making sure I eat my own vitamins and minerals!  * ) -Although, I think what the whole prey is (or at least what it’s age is) also has effect on how healthy it is to the ferret, I read somewhere chicks are not a real benefit to the ferret where mice are, is it because the chick is not fully grown? and is this true for other whole prey? Ex. Are furry mice better than pinky mice? If this is true, what is the optimal age for whole prey? -I am really not sure how much food to leave out, I hear they eat every 4 hours, and kits eat far more than adults… so does this mean you put 3 or 4 whole pray in a food dish and leave it there for the day such as (dare I say..) a kibble feeder would? ......how does all that work? wouldn't it go bad?... How do I know what is too much vs. not enough? I know different ferrets will have different appetites too… and back to variety, if I gave say two whole prey at once would it be a good idea to give one mouse and one quail? And the next day rat and rabbit? I see some of these mean plans and I just get overwhelmed with confusion! Haha! Thank you so much for reading! I know I have many, many, questions!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 0:28:03 GMT -5
Hi Aliena, It's fantastic to hear that you are doing our research before you bring home a fuzzy. It's also great to hear that you want to provide the bets possible care for him.  A natural diet can be quite intimidating to begin with, but as you do your research one step at a time things will become much easier to understand. Frankenprey is basically a simple name which means to feed a variety of meats to copy that of an animal (bones, muscle meat, organs and such) A lot of people do both whole prey and frankenprey together and that can work out great providing it is balanced. I myself do both frankenprey and whole prey for my three. Here is Intro Into Raw. This is a great list of things to read in regards to feeding raw for beginners. docs.google.com/document/d/1PxpRVp1J_YAd6lDHI1224J1AletYzpp9tdJ7k8PpR2Q/editMost start with the soup stage when it comes to frankenprey, but since you are getting a young ferret, you may be able to get him onto raw or whole prey straight away. To go full whole prey you would need a variety of different types of adult animals and a minimum of three types of proteins and yes, that basically means three different types of animals. Baby animals are considered treats, so things like chicks or ducklings, or pinkies would be treats rather than a meal. Adult mice, Adult rats and Quail are a great start. Some people feed whole adult chickens and ducks even. Some also do pigeon. A whole prey diet would indeed be balanced since they contain all the meat, bones and organs. Every animal has different nutrients though, but as long as there is a variety then ferrets should be getting all the nutrients they need. If you would like, you can sign up for a mentor so you can have someone to guide you through the process of feeding whole prey or frankenprey- or both which ever you decide on. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/61/sign-mentoring-program-Although, I think what the whole prey is (or at least what it’s age is) also has effect on how healthy it is to the ferret, I read somewhere chicks are not a real benefit to the ferret where mice are, is it because the chick is not fully grown? and is this true for other whole prey? Ex. Are furry mice better than pinky mice? If this is true, what is the optimal age for whole prey?Optimal age depends on the animal. You want an adult animal though thats for sure. Adult mouse - A mouse 8 weeks to 2 years old. Aged mouse - A mouse 2 to 3 years old. Mature mouse - A mouse 3 to 6 months old. Middle adult mouse - A mouse 10 to 14 months old. Old mouse - A mouse 18 months to 2 years old. Pubescent mouse - A mouse at the age of sexual maturity, generally 28 to 49 days old. Adult rat - A rat > 60 days old or > /= 250 grams. Aged rat - A rat 3 to 4 years old. Pubescent rat - A rat at the age of sexual maturity, generally 37 to 67 days old. -I am really not sure how much food to leave out, I hear they eat every 4 hours, and kits eat far more than adults… so does this mean you put 3 or 4 whole pray in a food dish and leave it there for the day such as (dare I say..) a kibble feeder would? ......how does all that work? wouldn't it go bad?... How do I know what is too much vs. not enough? I know different ferrets will have different appetites too… and back to variety, if I gave say two whole prey at once would it be a good idea to give one mouse and one quail? And the next day rat and rabbit? I see some of these mean plans and I just get overwhelmed with confusion! Haha! If you feed whole prey, you can leave it out for up to 48 hours. Once the food goes bad, ferrets wouldn't usually touch the food so there's nothing much to worry about in that area. All you need to do is give them a whole animal and they'll do the rest. If they don't touch anything, then you would have to cut up the animal, or slice open its abdomen and put in some oil to entice. Adult ferrets can eat around 2-6 ounces of food per meal. Kits can eat a lot since they're growing babies, so you can give them more food. If you end up with stashes or left over meat, then you will know that you have given too much. It takes some time to start out with but eventually you can figure out what is too much or too little. Basically if you have stashes and left overs - too much food. If you have an empty plate - give little more food. Adult Mice can weight around 1.0–1.6 oz. Some ferrets can eat up to 4+ mice per meal give or take. It also depends on the ferret. Quail could weight about 4 ounces I think, so between a couple of mice and a quail, it might be a good amount for a day. |
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Post by Sherry on Dec 10, 2015 11:23:20 GMT -5
I would truly hope the little one in the pet store is no where near 6 weeks old  I know the mills remove them young- but technically they aren't supposed to ship until about 8 weeks and even THAT is too young to be away from mum. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 18:05:19 GMT -5
I would truly hope the little one in the pet store is no where near 6 weeks old I know the mills remove them young- but technically they aren't supposed to ship until about 8 weeks and even THAT is too young to be away from mum. Gee, that's not good  I asked the pet store employee how old are they when they reach the store and he said it's rare they get them older than 6 weeks, I really hope he just didn't know what he was talking about... I remember when I was in college psychology and the class learned about baby monkeys who were removed from their parents at an early age, and the emotional distress is caused them. I really hope this isn't the case. what are the possible problems that happen to ferrets like this, and is there any known way to help the kit or lessen the problems? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 18:15:50 GMT -5
Hi Aliena, It's fantastic to hear that you are doing our research before you bring home a fuzzy. It's also great to hear that you want to provide the bets possible care for him. A natural diet can be quite intimidating to begin with, but as you do your research one step at a time things will become much easier to understand. Frankenprey is basically a simple name which means to feed a variety of meats to copy that of an animal (bones, muscle meat, organs and such) A lot of people do both whole prey and frankenprey together and that can work out great providing it is balanced. I myself do both frankenprey and whole prey for my three. Here is Intro Into Raw. This is a great list of things to read in regards to feeding raw for beginners. docs.google.com/document/d/1PxpRVp1J_YAd6lDHI1224J1AletYzpp9tdJ7k8PpR2Q/editMost start with the soup stage when it comes to frankenprey, but since you are getting a young ferret, you may be able to get him onto raw or whole prey straight away. To go full whole prey you would need a variety of different types of adult animals and a minimum of three types of proteins and yes, that basically means three different types of animals. Baby animals are considered treats, so things like chicks or ducklings, or pinkies would be treats rather than a meal. Adult mice, Adult rats and Quail are a great start. Some people feed whole adult chickens and ducks even. Some also do pigeon. A whole prey diet would indeed be balanced since they contain all the meat, bones and organs. Every animal has different nutrients though, but as long as there is a variety then ferrets should be getting all the nutrients they need. If you would like, you can sign up for a mentor so you can have someone to guide you through the process of feeding whole prey or frankenprey- or both which ever you decide on. holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/61/sign-mentoring-program-Although, I think what the whole prey is (or at least what it’s age is) also has effect on how healthy it is to the ferret, I read somewhere chicks are not a real benefit to the ferret where mice are, is it because the chick is not fully grown? and is this true for other whole prey? Ex. Are furry mice better than pinky mice? If this is true, what is the optimal age for whole prey?Optimal age depends on the animal. You want an adult animal though thats for sure. Adult mouse - A mouse 8 weeks to 2 years old. Aged mouse - A mouse 2 to 3 years old. Mature mouse - A mouse 3 to 6 months old. Middle adult mouse - A mouse 10 to 14 months old. Old mouse - A mouse 18 months to 2 years old. Pubescent mouse - A mouse at the age of sexual maturity, generally 28 to 49 days old. Adult rat - A rat > 60 days old or > /= 250 grams. Aged rat - A rat 3 to 4 years old. Pubescent rat - A rat at the age of sexual maturity, generally 37 to 67 days old. -I am really not sure how much food to leave out, I hear they eat every 4 hours, and kits eat far more than adults… so does this mean you put 3 or 4 whole pray in a food dish and leave it there for the day such as (dare I say..) a kibble feeder would? ......how does all that work? wouldn't it go bad?... How do I know what is too much vs. not enough? I know different ferrets will have different appetites too… and back to variety, if I gave say two whole prey at once would it be a good idea to give one mouse and one quail? And the next day rat and rabbit? I see some of these mean plans and I just get overwhelmed with confusion! Haha! If you feed whole prey, you can leave it out for up to 48 hours. Once the food goes bad, ferrets wouldn't usually touch the food so there's nothing much to worry about in that area. All you need to do is give them a whole animal and they'll do the rest. If they don't touch anything, then you would have to cut up the animal, or slice open its abdomen and put in some oil to entice. Adult ferrets can eat around 2-6 ounces of food per meal. Kits can eat a lot since they're growing babies, so you can give them more food. If you end up with stashes or left over meat, then you will know that you have given too much. It takes some time to start out with but eventually you can figure out what is too much or too little. Basically if you have stashes and left overs - too much food. If you have an empty plate - give little more food. Adult Mice can weight around 1.0–1.6 oz. Some ferrets can eat up to 4+ mice per meal give or take. It also depends on the ferret. Quail could weight about 4 ounces I think, so between a couple of mice and a quail, it might be a good amount for a day. Thank you so much! this was so much help! I bookmarked the link, I think this all the information I needed to get started! :thankyou: |
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Post by Sherry on Dec 11, 2015 11:22:18 GMT -5
Even at 8 weeks he/she will need a LOT of attention. He will be crying a LOT, scared and alone. He will almost sound like he is honking. A stuffed animal to snuggle with(watch he doesn't chew it), and being carried around is about all you can do I think. Heather ? If the kit truly IS only 6 weeks old any other suggestions? |
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Post by Sherry on Dec 11, 2015 11:35:55 GMT -5
To show how quickly they change, the first pic is a six week old(and one day), and the second is 7 weeks old. At 8 weeks the face is a bit longer.   |
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Post by Heather on Dec 11, 2015 12:57:45 GMT -5
They are ripped away at 5 weeks to be spayed, neutered, brutally mutilated and shipped. If the store is getting them at 6 weeks, then those kits are being shipped even before their eyes are open. This whole process disgusts me more and more. I know that about 15 yrs ago the AFA banded together and tried to make sure that kits never showed up in stores younger than 8 to 10 weeks (that still means that they're not even weaned when removed from the mother). It was an abysmal failure. The law was passed but vets who check the stock, rarely if ever even do more than a cursory look through the shipping opening (window) in the ferret boxes to make sure that the wee ones inside appear to be alive. Marshals ships in blocks of about 2 weeks (if you check their birth cert you will see that it specifies that the ferret was altered at this date and born between this date and this date). Either way, at 6 weeks the kits are just forming their personalities....barely. A kit between the ages of 6 to 10 weeks learns all their social skills, their independence, their potty training. Removing them at this time, means none of that is taught and it's left up to the ferrant to nurture and provide that care. Kits, babies honk when they're scared and need support, usually momma ferret provides this. She will even nurse them at this age, even though they're basically weaned. A kit who is removed from the mother too young, will actually nurse on their friends (usually ears) and bedding. Kits this age require a lot of care for them to become good citizens and friends. Creating a sling allows them to be carried around and be close to you. You will have to teach them bite inhibition and how to be brave. A solo ferret requires a lot of stimulation, a kit requires a lot of gentle nurturing.
One of the issues with buying a kit this young is also its immune system is not able to cope. Disease and stress kills many kits this age. I shudder to think of the mortality rate of kits this age being shipped. The ones that make it to the pet stores are very strong and are survivors but even they die once they're in the store. It's referred to as a failure to thrive and it's written into the contract with Marshals farm (no not the one you see, this is the one with the retailer). The kit will be replaced if the kit doesn't survive to sale.
ciao
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Post by crazylady on Dec 11, 2015 13:17:27 GMT -5
I second all heather has written I wrote this many many years ago about the ferret trade in stores
please don't read if you are easily upset
The ferret trade
We wait unseen in airport crates,
Waiting to learn what will be our fate,
Many litters crammed inside,
No where to run no where to hide,
The crate is moving were on our way,
How long has it been a week a day?
The air grows thin a smell abounds,
Dyeing friends lie all around,
There life is over before it began ,
All for the sake of a breeder farm,
The journeys over the lid removed,
were placed in a glass tank and given food,
But the food we are given I cant eat,
Its hard and dry and hurts my teeth,
My heart is screaming for my mothers milk,
And to snuggle up safe in her coat of silk,
I am one of the many in petstores around,
Whos life will end in a hole in the ground,
Torn from mothers who scream in pain,
To make plenty money is the breeders aim,
I am four weeks old my body rebels,
My stomach grows bloated and begins to swell,
faeces runs from my painful insides,
I just want it over I want to die,
A human stops she lifts me out,
she talks to a another and carry's me out,
she treats me kindly and gives me food I can eat,
soon I am well and on my feet,
But what of the others who eases there pain,
Or does this keep happening again and again,
I was lucky from h*ll I was saved,
But how many like me lie in unmarked graves!
take care bye for now
Bev
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2015 15:15:32 GMT -5
Very moving poem |
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Post by Klarissa on Dec 11, 2015 19:41:32 GMT -5
That's disgusting. I myself just found out the kit my husband got me is 9 weeks, not 11 weeks as the store employee told him.  |
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