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Post by Desiree on Jul 24, 2015 11:07:41 GMT -5
ASF's are in a single level bin with a wheel and feeder bin. I put in some extra pvc end caps in there since they seem to like to something to sit in. As for CO2, thankfully, bitbyter has been coaching me and will help me get it all set up when the time comes. I don't mind CD for a botched hunt or a prekilled meal but I don't know how willing I am to do it with all the grow outs and I'm fairly certain I will not be able to CD the rats. I need a passive way to cull them since I will helping raising them. I don't mind raising my own food but I'm not sure I can CD them myself. I do appreciate the non slip idea. I had a big problem with that last night and probably stressed out the first girl I did. Sharpening steel? Like the one you use when sharpening knives? Also, Jason, the store is calling Mazuri for me and they are going to call me back. So I'm hoping they will get it in. Also, saw the mazuri ferret food there and decided to look at the ingredients, made me want to cry.
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 24, 2015 11:55:32 GMT -5
Yeah, Mazuri is pretty horrible ferret food but apparently is one of the better rodent blocks (as far as I've read).
As for the CO2 chamber, I actually find the ASF's easier than mice as they get wobbly when they start getting affected by the CO2. They wobble side to side on their feet and then lay down / stop when unconscious so it is really obvious when you can turn up the CO2.
According to the AVMA documentation you want them to start to wobble at about 1 to 1.5 minutes and then be unconscious in about 20 seconds. So far that seems to be what I get when I barely crack the valve on my paintball canister. I then turn it up and they are usually dead in 5 minutes (be aware that while unconscious, their lungs are still working to get air so that can be a little disturbing).
I'll record my next cull and post it.
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 24, 2015 12:15:10 GMT -5
and msav is right. All that plastic inside the tubs is not going to last long with the ASF's. I use metal wheels and so far that seems to curb their need to chew (keeps them occupied). I still see them even chew on the metal wheels occasionally.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 24, 2015 12:28:59 GMT -5
There is no plastic inside of the ASF's tubs. Just a metal wheel and the pvc end caps which they can destroy to their hearts content.
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 24, 2015 13:53:55 GMT -5
oh, must have gotten then tubs mixed up when I was looking at them.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 24, 2015 14:11:52 GMT -5
Yep, ASF's are in a single bin. Norway Rats are in the double levels. Stacked tubs in the middle are just stacked not combined.
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Post by msav on Jul 24, 2015 14:26:46 GMT -5
ASF's are in a single level bin with a wheel and feeder bin. I put in some extra pvc end caps in there since they seem to like to something to sit in. As for CO2, thankfully, bitbyter has been coaching me and will help me get it all set up when the time comes. I don't mind CD for a botched hunt or a prekilled meal but I don't know how willing I am to do it with all the grow outs and I'm fairly certain I will not be able to CD the rats. I need a passive way to cull them since I will helping raising them. I don't mind raising my own food but I'm not sure I can CD them myself. I do appreciate the non slip idea. I had a big problem with that last night and probably stressed out the first girl I did. Sharpening steel? Like the one you use when sharpening knives? Also, Jason, the store is calling Mazuri for me and they are going to call me back. So I'm hoping they will get it in. Also, saw the mazuri ferret food there and decided to look at the ingredients, made me want to cry. Yes a Knife sharpening steel. I use a round one but I would think an oval one would work as well. I have a cheap one that has harsh ridges that I would never use on my knives that work great for keeping the wiggly ones from moving before the tail is pulled. I have got my timing down so that I am placing the steel and pulling the tail almost simultaneously to reduce the stress when culling. I will watch the video and then decide If I Think I could do the C02 method. I already have Many C02 Tanks. Although they are probably out of date. The last time I needed a refill they would not do it. SO I went to the store and bought a couple pounds of dry Ice, smashed it up and put it on the tank and screwed the valve back on. After a couple of house I had a tank full of liquid C02.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 24, 2015 15:03:39 GMT -5
Oh man, that sounds scary. I don't like the dry ice or baking soda, to much iffyness.
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Post by msav on Jul 24, 2015 16:45:56 GMT -5
Oh man, that sounds scary. I don't like the dry ice or baking soda, to much iffyness. It is just a method of filling the tanks. Once it is liquid it is the same stuff as if you got the tank filled at a paintball store. dispensing the C02 is just like bitbyter suggests. I would never use baking soda or dry ice as a dispensing method Not enough control.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 24, 2015 22:30:28 GMT -5
Another thing I wanted to mention was the cost. It cost me a good amount to get set up. I don't even have to correct food I want for them yet so this is before the cost of their normal food. I bought a lot of it here and there so prices are estimated. Does not include CO2 prices because I still need to source the materials.
Bins - 3 big bins were 10$ and the little bins were 5$x2 while medium bins were 7$x4. I'll need to add another small bin and big bin which is another 15$ Subtotal - 83$ Mesh - 1/4 in mesh was 7 and 1/2 mesh was 9, clips were 4 Subtotal - 20$ Water Bottles - These were any where between 5 and a buck depending on where I got them. Subtotal - 13$ Food - 15 bucks for 40 pounds Subtotal - 15$ Bedding - 8 bucks (still need sweet PDZ and pine pellets which will another 25$) Subtotal - 33$ Zipties - 10 bucks Subtotal - 10$ Wheels and hideyspots - Preciously bought wheels 20, previously homemade wheel, 10 and one thrift shop bought wheel 1, and two thrift hidey spots 3 also nesting material for momma - 4 Subtotal - 38$ Mice - 3 females 15$, 1 male 5$ Subtotal - 20$ Asf's and Rats - 1:6 (2 already culled) and 2:2 - 20$ for each species Subtotal - 40$ Hairless Rats - Mom, babies and daddy 20 bucks Subtotal - 20$
Total = 292$
Now I did split up the costs over time and made sure to gather as many supplies as I could before I started but this is how much money I have into this not to mention the two hour drive (one way) to source my ASF's and rats, the time spent making it which was about 4 days plus bonding (so the little guys don't eat my hand off). My normal amount of money spent on whole prey is about 80-90 bucks every 2 and 1/2 months which is just around 400 bucks. Is it worth it? I don't know. I do like knowing how the prey is kept and handled. Big thing, is that if I can start doing almost all whole prey all the time, it will definitely be worth it.
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Post by msav on Jul 25, 2015 0:55:17 GMT -5
$20 each for ASF rats.
I have been selling my excess on craigslist for $4 each. Perhaps I need to up my price.
That total cost is around what I spent to make my 2 rat racks, I saved some by going with the pin valves and tubing leading to the 2 1/2 gal water tank instead of water bottles, plus I fill it about once every 2 weeks.
although with your tubs you have more visibility that I wish I had a bit more of. I just had another batch of asf pinkies today, 32 of the little pink jelly beans in this litter. I only notice when I check on them or hear squeaking.
My cost for food is a bit higher because I refuse to feed my rodents Soy or corn. So they are getting the rat Mix recipe That I found posted somewhere on this forum. I have yet to find a rodent block that does not have soy.
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Post by bitbyter on Jul 25, 2015 7:32:21 GMT -5
Yes, there are definitely setup costs but in the long run the savings are worth it. Especially if you get ahead of your ferrets appetites and can start selling some. If I sell a bag of 25 my costs are just about zero for two months. If I sell two bags I make a profit. I gave up on loose mixes msav. I found they were wasting soooo much food. The block I am using has both corn and soy in it and I haven't seen any issues with the rodents or my ferrets. Keep in mind that both of those ingredients are most likely being fed to any meat animals you are feeding them (chicken, beef, pork).
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Post by Desiree on Jul 25, 2015 9:57:48 GMT -5
20 for each species. So 20 bucks for 1:6 colony. (Since I only asked for four that's what he charged me) I think 4 bucks an ASF sounds spot.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 25, 2015 10:01:39 GMT -5
For feed, I may make a mix to give to them as a different food source every now and then. Last night, they got turkey legs (cooked) and chopped up. It had been in our fridge to long for human consumption. As long as supplement and keep their interest in food I'm okay with a lab block as a balanced meal.
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Post by msav on Jul 25, 2015 10:53:39 GMT -5
Yes, there are definitely setup costs but in the long run the savings are worth it. Especially if you get ahead of your ferrets appetites and can start selling some. If I sell a bag of 25 my costs are just about zero for two months. If I sell two bags I make a profit. I gave up on loose mixes msav. I found they were wasting soooo much food. The block I am using has both corn and soy in it and I haven't seen any issues with the rodents or my ferrets. Keep in mind that both of those ingredients are most likely being fed to any meat animals you are feeding them (chicken, beef, pork). I realize that my other sourced meats are being fed corn and soy, However that is beyond my control. I will control what I can. I am trying to feed ASF at least 3-4 days a week. I feared they would get tired of them, but that has not happened yet. It is still the only food they fight over. I am still putting some in the freezer every month so even feeding my ferrets (4 ferrets) 5 rats a day 4 days a week, I am still putting about 50 in the freezer per month. And I even cut back on my breeders down to two 1:4 breeding groups. I have not had much luck selling them. I only sold 5 live ASF's so far. Not very much demand here for them.
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