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Post by nicdex on Apr 21, 2015 17:47:44 GMT -5
hi i have already posted about my other ferret whom i bred and was still swollen. she still looks the same and later this week i will put her with my hob again. now i have put my second jill with him last thursday they did 3 consecutive days mating and i could see they were being hooked so it was proper breeding. yesterday and today they both have no interest in breeding does that mean i can remove the jill?
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Post by Sherry on Apr 25, 2015 20:14:08 GMT -5
Why are you breeding them? However given you did I would remove and if it didn't "take", have her Jill jabbed and then spayed or use deslorelin implant
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Post by Heather on Apr 25, 2015 21:04:27 GMT -5
Where is your breeder mentor to ask how and when all this should happen? As far as breeding taking or not the vulva doesn't drop in size necessarily immediately. Why have you bred both jills? and yes remove the jills if they are no longer making any attempt to breed. You're finished. ciao
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Post by crazylady on May 7, 2015 11:55:44 GMT -5
Hi may I just ask have either of these jills been mated before ? ( Have you watched how they react in a phantom pregnancy ?) and what age are your jills the reason I am asking is you may encounter some problems and need help heather is correct if the male is showing no interst remove the jill before any damage can be done due to repeated matings take care bye for now Bev
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Post by nicdex on May 7, 2015 19:14:26 GMT -5
i decided to breed them because i wanted to chose the more natural way to avoid them being sick for being long in heat. most animal lovers promote neutering but wont be so happy if they are drugged and neutered themselves lol but that is only my opinion. as far as breeding mentors the only breeders i know they sell kits at few days old so i rather seek help somewhere else. well i do not know much about their past since i recently adopted them. onr of them if she was mated is due in a week and 3 days her belly looks bigger but not that much. will see. next time even if i am against spaying maybe i vasectomise my hob so they are kept 'almost' normal as nature intended them to be and can avoid complications that can occur at the same time.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2015 22:16:32 GMT -5
People get vasectomies all the time. Women have their tubes tied and hysterectomies. In fact, every woman I know that has had a hysterectomy was glad they did it.
What will you do with the babies? Will you breed all the daughters? What of the next generation?
Are you aware that a Jill can die from a pregnancy? It is much safer to get a Jill jab. In the U.S. they are given an hcg shot.
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Post by racheld on May 8, 2015 9:59:39 GMT -5
Why are you worried about what's natural when you're keeping animals who aren't natural (domestic species, would not exist without human intervention) in an unnatural environment (presumably a cage or hutch?) and are hopefully going to give them vet care if they get sick (super not natural--in nature they would just die). Why is your concern for maintaining an illusion of 'nature' instead of for your jills' safety and wellbeing?
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Post by Sherry on May 8, 2015 10:25:17 GMT -5
You are doing them no favours at all. All too often jills die when birthing, or you lose the kits, or pyro sets in. Are you willing to spend several thousand having an emergency c-section done and lose them all anyway? The mammory tumours that can result. Not to mention all the kits that wind up in shelters.
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Post by crazylady on May 8, 2015 13:44:56 GMT -5
Hi Breeding is a very expensive and risky business ( believe me I know I have been around whole ferrets for all my life and owned them for over 47 years ) I too have whole ferrets and use a vasectomised hob to bring them out of season ( old jills get a jill jab ) even with all my experience problems happen I have lost whole litters when a jills milk has not dropped in correctly in some cases if a jill is disturbed or simply not the mothering type she will kill and eat her kits or is she smells a human near her kits she will abandon or kill them do you have the time to feed the mother three times a day and the litter of kits four times a day once they are three weeks old ? the cost of feeding and rearing them correctly far out weighs what they sell for and another thing to factor in is where do you keep them ? an un fixed ferret is not less lightly to develop adrenal disease than a fixed one if it is kept in un natural lighting as an unfixed ferret will repeatedly come into season if it is kept indoors please don't think you can avoid problems simply by keeping them whole it does not work that way mastitis and pyrometer are only added to the list of problems along with c sections and ovarian cancer take care bye for now Bev
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Post by nicdex on May 9, 2015 7:39:36 GMT -5
well but when it is done to people its done with their consent while animals are forced to be fixed. it is just the way i think.. and in the end if everyone fixes their ferret/cat/dog animals would become extint. where i live there are no ferret shelters cause they arent quite common they are simply for sale. so the kits wont end up in a shelter even if i have to keep all of them. i am aware that breeding them is risky but i heard a lot about ferrets developing adrenal just because they were fixed. yes i do worry about whats natural because in this case ferrets die because human beings interfere with nature. yet whether i like it or not the vasectomised hob seems the safest option.
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Post by crazylady on May 9, 2015 8:03:52 GMT -5
Hi I am a breeder work them and an international ferret judge I also take in rescues from my vet as I have said I have over 40 years of experience I have been on the receiving end of breeders who didnt know what they where getting into whole litters of kits with mothers who are dieing left on my doorstep resulting in half the litter dead due to not being old enough to cope with out mum and not taking to bottle feeds what are you going to do with all of these kits ? you do know they can have up to thirteen a litter and a female can come into season three times a year ( more if kept indoors ) a nursing female gives all of her calcium in the first three weeks of feeding her kits via her milk then she has nothing left if this is not replaced then your jill is then at risk of osteoporosis her kits may also be born with what is called swimmers syndrome ( rubber bones due to there not being enough calcium in the jills body ) this causes horrific disability and death as you have no back ground on these ferrets you could also find they have hidden problems in there genetics I know you stated ferrets would die out if not bred yes this is true but please leave the breeding to those who have a lot of experience and know the line of genetics they are dealing with on either side have you also considered what will happen if you cannot find homes for them ? as you have stated there are no shelters to help? you may think your answer of the animals have no choice with regard to speying ect this choice is made by a responsible owner too many ferrets have died during birthing or dumped in shelters if diet lighting and the fixing is not done earlier than 12 months then the risk of adrenal is minimized DONT think not fixing will prevent adrenal or insulinoma I can promise you it WONT take care bye for now Bev
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Post by fretki on May 9, 2015 13:47:43 GMT -5
@nicdex: I'm sorry to correct you about adrenal: There are very well unneutered ferrets who can get adrenal as well, aditionnally unneutered means the whole spectrum of reproductive cancers as well, I've seen both, as we have neutered and unneutered ferrets where I live, we don't have any ferret mills, so usually the person adopting a kit will plan how to go on; in the worst case they will not invest a single thought in it and put their ferrets lifes at risk. As I help out in ferret rescue I've seen many cases where unneutered ferrets came in with much more issues form beeing left unneutered with irresponsible new owners than form neutering, issues who cost more vet care, personal effort and money to fix, than an implant for adrenal treatment. I've seen hobs with deep wounds from fighting, jills dying from leaving them in heat too long... and the worst: I've seen ferrets dumped because the "effort" in breeding them didn't got met with the outcome. People leaving their jill in panic at the shelter because they couldn't spend the cash for a c-section... People dumping entire litters because they suddenly realized that feeding 10 growing kits would be more than they could afford. Of course I've seen adrenal as well, I have adrenal ferrets myself, my oldest adrenal girl will be 10 this year. And keep in mind, I live in a country with about the strictest animal protection laws on this planet, if you don't intend to create offsping with your ferrets, you would even by law be obliged to neuter them. I'm happy most responsible owners follow this, as the few who don't are enough to deal with.
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Post by nicdex on May 9, 2015 17:41:42 GMT -5
If by wanting to have more ferrets of my own from parents i consider as my kids instead of buying i am called irrisponsable i am then happy to be so. most people talk as if 'experienced' breeders were born with experience. also this neutering thing why not fix every animal so that in the future they will be all extint? i am aware of the risks no matter what you choose there are always risks in life. when i decided to breed mine i tought about everything and was already sure all the kits will have a loving home. any experienced breeder can help even someone more experienced than him but yet nobody is going to tell me i am iresponsable just because he/she has more experience. ciao
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Post by RedSky on May 9, 2015 19:37:42 GMT -5
No one has said that every single ferret should be neutered, what they are saying is that only ferrets who you know the full background of, including their parents and generations back. I don't agree with having rescue ferrets, no idea of the health of their parents, siblings, grandparents etc and breeding them. Turning it on its head can you imagine how many ferrets there would be, without homes, if nobody neutered them.
I thought you had said that your ferrets were rescues, did they not come from a rescue? Maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else.
I have no idea where you live but I seriously doubt that anyone would sell or buy a kit that is only a few days out, the babies couldn't survive without their mothers, short of that they would need heat, 2 hour bottle feelings, 24 hour care and even then most would die. I do think that most 'breeders' move out the kits too young but I would think that 4 or 5 weeks would be the absolute minimum (12 weeks been the recommended).
I feel similar to you though, you have looked into local breeders to support you, looked for local rescues which there aren't any and wish to breed. You did the right thing by coming to a forum with people that are very knowledgeable. Realistically it would have been much better if you had posted about your wish to breed ferrets and have them help you select lines and then be linked up to one or two specifically and monitored each step, it would sort of be a distance learning rather than hands on so not perfect but much better than jumping straight in.
But what's done is done and I hope you get the help and support you need, and more importantly what your ferrets' need.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2015 21:01:36 GMT -5
The posted did a previous post where the recommendation to find a breeder to work with was suggested as well as suggesting a Jill jab until a mentor could be found.
As the founder of a rescue, I can assure you that the lack of a local rescue does not mean that there isn't a need. It switched from dog rescue to ferret rescue due to the need in my area. There are MANY areas in need of rescues, but not enough rescues. I can't even meet our local need and there isn't another rescue in over 100 miles.
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