RedSky thank you! I was looking at the frankenprey menu (which for some reason Google docs isn't working for me right now) so basically, whatever is listed for PM meal, do half? I guess I'm slightly lost regarding the amounts, because for instance I have pig heart/kidney. How many ounces should the serving be? Or like the chicken wing for instance... Elwood had servings of it 3 times and didn't finish. Would I give just half the wing at night? Soooo lost. I do sincerely appreciate your help!
I do have a new one, I've named her Gidget but haven't posted any photos other than to their Instagram account. Domino has been interested in her and has been following her around which is good. Domino is a strange ferret. He'd rather lay around than do anything else, for the most part. He'll play 10% of his free time. He is okay with Elwood and Dalia but they run around like maniacs and he doesn't do that, even when they try to invite him in (even before Coco's passing). He's just really finicky in general, so he's going to require A LOT of attention when I try to switch him. I'd rather wait until the others are done and I have a mentor to go down that road.
Sorry I think I've confused you, I wasn't very clear. I didn't mean just feed half a portion of the PM meal. It has been worked out that on average a ferret should be fed as
7-9 meals consumable bone 3-4 meals muscle meats of which 1 1/2 meals should be heart) 1.5 meals of liver and another organ
Because the morning meals will be soup and fully balanced, you only need 7 other meals per week. The above is for 14 meals (one in the morning, one in the evening). So you can half the amounts stated.
So for just evening meal it should be 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 meals of bone in 1 1/2 to 2 meals of muscle meat (of which 3/4 heart) 3/4 meals of liver and another organ
An example of this plan would be
Monday AM- Soup PM- Chicken wing
Tuesday AM- Soup PM- heart and duck neck (same amount of each so maybe 1oz of each if your ferret eats 2oz per meal)
Wednesday AM- Soup PM- Beef chunks
Thursday AM- Soup PM - heart, liver and another organ and rabbit ribcage (a quarter of the meal should be heart, a quarter organs (liver and another) and half of the meal rabbit, so again for a 2oz meal it would be 0.5oz heart, 0.5oz organs and 1oz rabbit ribs).
Friday AM- Soup PM- Lamb chunks
Saturday AM - Soup PM - liver and another organ and beef riblets (if they can eat the bone) (half of the meal being liver and another organ, half being so 1oz of each for a 2oz meal)
Sunday AM - Soup PM - Cornish game hen
Of course you can swap stuff around and the heart could be fed as one single meal as they can pass excess taurine out of their systems and you could just bulk up the 3/4 of the liver and other organ with a bit of mince meat or something, but this is just a rough example. I also like to feed my heart and organ meals with something to help firm up their poos, especially since mine aren't great at getting it in the litter box!
Another way to do it would be to copy someone elses weekly menu but have each of their AM and PM meals could be half each of your PM meal or stretch it out to last two weeks so their Is your Mon AM Mon PM Mon PM Tues PM Tues AM Wed PM Tues PM Thurs PM Wed AM Fri PM Wed PM Sat PM Thurs AM Sun PM Thurs PM Mon PM Fri AM Tues PM
I'm sure you get the picture, their menu will be your PM menu for two weeks.
Does that make more sense?
As for amounts per meal or per day, that is very much dependant on your ferret. Females are supposed to eat less, and they are all supposed to eat more or less depending on what season their bodies think it is. That said my female holds her own with eating with my larger males. She is a lot more active than they are and will steal food out of their mouths. A female is 'supposed' to eat maybe 1oz per meal, males double... How much are they eating with the soup? And take into account that the soup is weighed with water added, so they should in theory eat more soup than they will of just meat. If you're not sure I'd start with 3oz for Elwood and Dalia per meal, and if they eat it more at the next meal, if any is left leave it in their cage and if it's still left by morning then reduce a little bit. I prefer to throw out a teaspoon of food than think they might be hungry.
I'm glad to hear Domino is interested, hopefully it will brighten him up a bit. I personally would be working on getting them all to live together, not sure if that is your aim. Might sounds a bit depressive but the main reason I adopted 3 was so that when one passes they still have a friend and hopefully won't grieve as much. Might not help, but atleast they aren't alone while you can't be with them eg sleeping, school/work, out. As much as I wish I could I can't spend 24/7 with my pets. I'm looking forwards to pictures, but she can't be as gorgeous as Elwood, that's just impossible. I could eat that boy up!
That makes so much more sense. Thank you!! I'm a little short on time this evening as I'm in a dart league but I will try a new dinner tomorrow.
The ferrets all used to live together but I had to close the levels of the CN when I started Dalia and Elwood on raw because Dom and Coco needed kibble available to them. Once their switch is complete and I can move to Domino, they'll be open again.
Elwood is eating 4oz a day. Dalia 2oz. Gidget 4oz. For a little thing she is a pig lol. Elwood and Dalia ate some wing and are good with chunks. Gidget is good with chunks as well.
Here is a photo of her:
She's a crazy baby now. The first day she was very timid.
All 3 of them ate the chicken wings I gave them for dinner. They were 3oz - 3.5oz in weight. Elwood ate and is now back at it. Gidget I just woke up to eating seconds (bone and all, happy mama). Dalia ate her share and hasn't had seconds yet, but that makes sense given what she's eating ounce-wise.
It was interesting to introduce the meat to Gidget, since she's been on soup since she got here. I held her and was rubbing a small piece on her mouth for her to lick and taste. She tried to get away but I continued to hold her, and she ended up fear peeing on me. I felt so bad, I had no idea I was terrifying her. The other two are okay with me rubbing new tastes on their lips.
Since I was introducing the meat to Gidget with some coconut oil, I tried to offer some of the small pieces to Domino. He just licked the oil and was on his way. I tried to introduce soup to him when he saw the others eating it, but he was not having it. Peer pressure doesn't work on him, lol.
ETA: Dalia just woke up and is eating seconds! So proud of them.
Heart wasn't a hit. Elwood had a little and so did Dalia. Gidget wouldn't touch it at all. Tried a little kidney with worse results. I cut it all up into little pieces for them to feel comfortable with chewing, but no dice.
I'm sorry that I haven't checked in on you. I've been fighting a bug and my husband has been sick. So, I've been fine in the morning and napping away my afternoons.
Gidget is just adorable. I don't know where you find yours, but gosh, they are all so cute. RedSky is right, Elwood has some competition.
Everyone is doing so well. Let's talk about the basic Frankenprey menu. You're ready to move onto that menu: First, you want a minimum of three proteins.
7-9 meals will be Bone In meats. Bone In is the Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller. Quail, Cornish game hen, chicken/duck/turkey wings and rabbit are some good choices.
3-4 meals are Muscle Meats: One full meal must be Heart. Chicken/duck/pork/beef/rabbit are the easiest to find. Gizzards are a Muscle Meat and they are great for cleaning teeth and building jaw strength. I buy duck gizzards. It gives me another protein, without buying pricey duck. That leaves two meals for beef/pork/turkey or other meats. Mine don't care very much for beef, so I use a ground beef and mix an egg into it. That gives me a red meat, which is high in Iron and Vitamin B and egg for Omega 3's and to help with grooming. Eggs help them process fur that can get stuck in their throat from overgrooming.
Organ meals: One organ meal must be Liver plus another organ One organ meal must be Liver plus another organ plus a half meal of Heart (which is a muscle meat) Organs are defined as secreting organs. Liver/kidney/spleen/thymus/pancreas and brains.
The idea is that with Frankenprey, is to mimic what they eat with whole prey. So, the overall weekly menu is ten percent heart five percent liver and five percent other organ.
Liver is full of Vitamin A. It can build up in their system, so stick to the five percent. Heart has taurine, which is water soluable. So, we don't have to worry about an overage of taurine. Taurine is essential for ferrets. It is important for their central nervous system, brain function and especially for their syesight. Too little can lead to blindness. So, it is important that they have their ten percent of Taurine in the weekly menu.
Ferrets on raw will not need to eat as often as on kibble. Observe your ferrets and you will find that generally they will eat the most at one meal and eat a little less at the second meal. Mine eat the most at breakfast. I leave food out all day long, and when I put out their dinner, I pick up their breakfast plates. Then I pull out their breakfast to defrost for the morning. In the morning, I pick up their dinner plates and put their breakfast out. Then I pull out their dinner to defrost.
Boys generally eat 3-4 ounces a day. Girls eat maybe 2 ounces a day. They eat a little more in the winter and a little less in the spring. Gidget who is a tummy with teeth may happily eat you out of house and home. Don't worry, she will slow down.
Each new protein is rather like starting over. You will want to coax them and hand feed them. Getting them use to bones is a little scarey, but they will get use to them. In the beginning, crush the bones up into tiny pieces. Here is a before and after picture of what I did with Quail:
One way to approach bone is to feed them three or four bone meals in a row. Ferrets eat better as they become familiar with food. I built a basic menu and stuck with that for the first month or so. They ate much better as they became use to these foods. Here is a picture of my basic menu. Later, I bought a small whiteboard and put it on the fridge. Now, I just refer to it each day and can easily change out foods based on what I have in the freezer. I just follow the Frankenprey guidelines to make sure that each day, they get what is scheduled for that day. Whether it's a Bone In day, Muscle meat day or Organ day. On organ days, I follow the organ meal with a bone in meal to help firm poops:
This is my Juliet approving the menu:
One small note. You mentioned chicken necks. They might be a little tough for them in the beginning. Let them build some jaw strength and get used to eating bones and then you can include the necks. I hope this helps. Any questions so far? You've been doing great. Very nice job ferrenting. :thumbsup:
Last Edit: Jan 16, 2015 15:20:51 GMT -5 by Deleted
@poncesmom no worries! I do hope you're feeling better, I know your pain as I was sick over Christmas and New Years. It was the worst.
Thank you SO much for the info. I think having a chart will make this a lot easier to keep straight, I'm a visual learner/person in general so it'll help me to see it all on paper.
I did try to hand feed them the organ pieces, Elwood tried it because he and I have this thing where if I scruff him and gently press something against the side of his mouth, he'll open his mouth and start chewing. He didn't act like it was awful lol. Dalia ate it on her own. Gidget looked at me like I was crazy! She does go and eat on her accord after I try and present it to her.
I just went to Super H Mart that I'd mentioned earlier. They have EVERYTHING. I got duck leg, quail, chicken heart (finally), & rabbit. They had partridge, Cornish hen, goat, all sorts of beef and pork parts, frog legs, pheasant, and even chicken feet. Looks like I'm set for protein variety in that regard! I *think* the rabbit and quail are whole, so I'm going to make my best friend check and gut them if that's the case. I'm excited to have them try everything!
Wow, it sounds like you found a great market. Hooray! :banana:
I'm a visual learner also, so I'm glad that can help you. I like having my whiteboard on the fridge, no decisions or thinking involved. Just rely on what's on the schedule.
Oh Elwood, what a character. I think everyone on the forum is madly in love with Elwood. That's saying alot, when we have so many cute little ones. I've probably mentioned this before, but forgive me if I repeat myself. Try standing at the sink with a plate of slivers. Run one under some warm water and while you are holding someone, offer the wet sliver to them. This worked especially well for my Wynstan and still does, when he is being stubborn. The warm water releases the smell and they all seem to like wet food.
I served chicken heart for dinner (new to them, they've previously only had pork heart). Everyone went to the bowl and ate for a few minutes. I chopped it into pretty thick slices so I wasn't sure how they'd feel about it. Seems like it went okay!
I now have a Craigslist boy on my hands as well. Long story short, best friend picked him up a few days ago as a companion for Leche (he still comes regularly, he's gotten so big and fluffy!!). Last night while they were over we were discussing how Leche is the only ferret other than Coconut who's ever gotten Domino to act like a ferret, and to us he seems to have a bond with him. We decided to do a weekend swap to see if Domino seems happier with Leche around 24/7. I want what's best for the little guy, so if it turns out that he's thriving at best friend's house, then we may make it permanent. He'll still come by 75% of the week so I'll still get to annoy him and try to make him play (and HOPEFULLY he will!), and so will Elwood and Dalia.
I got this little boy to eat some soup this morning, he's not having the heart. We have no idea how old he is, the previous owners purchased him in the beginning of December so I can't imagine he's older than 6 months. They said he was aggressive, but he's done nothing of the sort. He doesn't even nip. He is really quite lovely so I'm not sure what their problem was.
Little boy finally ate the heart. I'd run it through the food processor to make it smaller pieces, added a little water, and he ate it off the spoon. He wouldn't eat it out of the bowl, but gobbled it off the spoon. I assume it's because he still feels weird about being in a new place twice in a week, and isn't feeling secure.
It's seeming like our hypothesis about Domino and Leche is right, so we're going to have a long talk tomorrow and decide if little boy should stay here and Dom with him or not. It was nice seeing a video of him war dancing, the other ferrets and I haven't been able to get one of those out of him in weeks.