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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2015 11:35:29 GMT -5
How often would you like weights? And pics? Every two or three days?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 22:27:50 GMT -5
We've tried goat soup three times now (goat shoulder meat, goat kidney, and goat liver. Still not a lot of progress to report. They all seemed less resistant tonight but that's probably more likely because they were extremely tired after being out and about while my mom was visiting and we were all (including the ferrets) opening Christmas presents. One concern I have is that Pearl started throwing up after having just a few licks off my finger. She did this at the start of her first switch. I suspected it was because she got some that had a higher concentration of liver. I'm not sure what made me think that other than it would happen after she had parts of the soup that were darker, the color of liver. Does that sound plausible? She threw up maybe a teaspoon sized bit of liquid. I took kibble away for 4 hours prior to them having their raw food. Since they didn't have much and I'm going to bed shortly, I put their kibble back in right away. Is that ok to do?
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 2, 2015 23:14:39 GMT -5
Sorry I've been absent but I've been sick the last few days. Not an excuse but my head isn't the in the game.
Ok, yes. Food amounts every two days. Weights weekly.
Keep at it with the goat soup.
As for Pearl, how soon after feeding her the soup did she throw up? Has she had other meals of the soup without throwing up?
When you make the soup are you freezing it in daily amounts or just leaving it in one batch in the fridge?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 2:05:22 GMT -5
That's totally am excuse in my book. No worries. I hope you're feeling better.
As of now, amounts are only measured in "licks." They are not eating measurable amounts yet but I'm sitting with each of them for a few minutes and holding them while putting food from my finger onto their mouths. Pearl and Bea are willingly licking but not for long before scurrying away. Smokey will barely open his mouth. I've been scruffin a little bit and getting my finger into his mouth with food on it.
Pearl threw up basically immediately after eating. Like, she ran away from me and within 30 seconds, she was throwing up. She went into her cage and started throwing up into the litter boxes.
She started out this way before but if I remember correctly, she got better when I mixed the batch a little better. And she did stop throwing up eventually and grew to love her food.
I saved out a small portion of this batch to refridgerate. The rest, I froze. How long before I should throw out the stuff that's been im the fridge? I made it Wednesday night. So it's currently 3 days old.
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 4, 2015 2:15:23 GMT -5
Smell it and see if it is off. 3 days seems a little long personally. I wouldn't go longer than 2 days with soup.
With Smokey, just do nose dabbs and lip / gum smears so that he has to lick it off. You want to associate good things with the raw, not bad. When we say scruff and stuff, it is just a light scruff to keep them on your lap while you finger feed.
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 4, 2015 2:34:41 GMT -5
I just went through and re-read the entire thread. I noticed in the poop pictures that Pearl's poop is significantly darker than Bea's. At that point they were both eating the same thing correct (kibble - chicken based)?
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 4, 2015 2:39:17 GMT -5
I was also talking with the other mentors and Katt suggested making a small batch of soup without the liver in it to see if Pearl takes to that better without vomiting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 20:01:47 GMT -5
Ya know, it may just be the lighting in that picture of the poops?? I'm not sure but I don't remember really noticing a significant difference or anything that signified trouble at that point. At that point, she was back to normal and regained almost all speed. So I'm not sure if we can really put that into the equation. And yes, at that point, they were eating the same thing. Straight Marshal's kibble. Nothing else.
I have mixed up the no-liver batch of goat soup. So goat shoulder and goat kidney in the proper proportions. I'm waiting a little while to give it to them as I took their kibble away just a while ago. I'll report back on how she does with this new batch. I'm sure it is premature to tell, but perhaps she has a sensitivity to liver in general??
I do think it's important to note that last night, I took better care to give her portions of the soup that definitely did not look dark, like liver colored. She did not throw up immediately. If she did, it was later after I'd gone to bed and I didn't see it in the cage. But in my experience with her, if she's going to throw up, she throws up basically immediately. Like within one minute of eating.
I will report back to you about if she throws up or not with this new batch sans liver.
Question - to keep everything the same with all of them, is it important during this phase to feed all three the same batch or not necessarily? So, what I'm wondering is if I should give all three the special no liver batch or if I can try to use up the batch with liver in it with the others. (it might be easiest for me to just give them all the same but if you see any reason to do that for sure, that's what I'll do.)
Updated Weight History:
Pearl: 9/28 1 lb 9 oz 9/29 1 lb 8.3 oz 10/5 1 lb 7.4 oz 10/12 1 lb 11.4 oz 10/19 1 lb 10.2 oz 11/8 1 lb 1.2 oz 11/16 1 lb 11.4 oz **11/20 - first day back on kibble 11/23 1 lb 14.2 oz 11/29 1 lb 15.1 oz 12/7 1 lb 14.1 oz 1/4 1 lb 13.3 oz
Beatrix: 9/28 2 lb 8.5 oz 9/29 2 lb 6.4 oz 10/5 2 lb 5.4 oz 10/12 2 lb 3.6 oz 10/19 2 lb 3.8 oz 11/8 2 lb 3.8 oz 11/16 2 lb 4 oz **11/20 first day back on kibble 11/23 2 lb 7 oz 11/29 2 lb 4 oz 12/7 2 lb 2.7 oz 1/4 2 lb 1 oz
Smokey: (adopted on 11/29) 12/5 2 lb 2.3 oz 12/7 2 lb 3.9 oz 1/4 2 lb 9.3 oz
Thanks again for your diligence and for sharing your knowledge and support. I appreciate you and this community more than I can express.
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 4, 2015 20:17:36 GMT -5
If the others are fine with the liver batch that keep using it. Pearl is our focus for issues though so we've got to find what works with her and what is causing her problems.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 20:28:55 GMT -5
Just offered everyone their soup. Pearl ate some off a spoon willingly. Still not a measurable amount but an improvement from previous days.
Bea licked some off my finger but didn't take any off the spoon. Ate less than Pearl.
Smokey let me put a very small amount on his lips and nose but didn't lick any off my finger willingly.
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 4, 2015 21:59:32 GMT -5
ok, how long are you trying for? Generally you pull their kibble a few hours before. Give them a really solid play time to their appetites worked up and then start offering / nose dabbing / lip smearing. Sit down for about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes and every time a ferret gets near, grab them and try feeding. About every 10 minutes or so. Put some tunes on, read a book, do it near the tv, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 20:46:58 GMT -5
I'm usually only trying for a short period of time. Maybe 10 minutes between all three ferrets. I will do longer. I don't want to stress them out but I suppose if I just try for a minute or so with each, or however long they will tolerate it at a time, and then keep trying as they whiz by me during play time, it wouldn't be too stressful for them.
Good news to report...last night, Bea licked up some blood off the plate all by herself. And Pearl ate a chunk of goat shoulder that didn't get blended very much in the magic bullet! I was holding her and letting her kick off this chunk and then she just ate it! Oh, and Bea carried two chunks away to stash....but didn't eat them. I'd say we are making progress! Smokey still thinks it's a terrible idea and just tolerates me putting some on his lips and nose but is hardly interested in even licking that off.
If say amounts are still not measure able amounts but we are getting closer, with the girls at least.
I didn't get time to try more tonight bc I had something right after work and just got home and am going to bed shortly. If you recall from previous conversations, I go to bed ridiculously early (8pm is always the goal) and have very little time after work. But it's a very rare occasion that I don't dedicate time to them after work. I will try again tomorrow and report back what progress we've made.
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 7, 2015 22:39:10 GMT -5
Could you get up a bit earlier in the morning and try then?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 19:46:17 GMT -5
My schedule really doesn't allow for that. I already get up at 4:45 am to go to the gym before work. I go to bed at 8 pm to accommodate that routine bc i unfortunately don't function well on much less than 9 hours of sleep :/ . So the time I have after work, 5:30-8, is dedicated to packing my gym bag for the next day, making dinner tidying the house a little, and getting the kids out to play and eat. The only thing I can think of that I could do differently, at least in days that I know I won't have much time for them after work, is to come home on a lunch break. Most days I allow myself an hour lunch break which wouldn't be much to come home, feed the babies and get them out to play a little bit, and then get back to work but I suppose it would be better than nothing. Again, that's super rare that that happens. Often times, I will sacrifice my sleep to get them out for at least a short while before I get into bed.
As an update on last night's dinner, is say we are continuing to make progress. Pearl willingly licked her soup off my finger as long as I was holding her. Smokey did so also which is a step in the rigt direction for him. He hadn't done that yet. And Bea actually licked up a bit of blood on the plate again. I'll measure her food tonight bc she may be moving in the direction to be the first to eat a measurable amount of food. The others are still eating such small amounts of food, it wouldn't be measurable.
As long as they aren't eating measure able amounts, are weights once per week ok or would you still like them every few days?
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Post by bitbyter on Jan 8, 2015 23:24:31 GMT -5
Ferret weights once per week. Food weights every few days. Maybe cut back on the kibble a bit to see if that will peak their appetites?
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