|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 22:53:51 GMT -5
It's fine Katt, you should help your friend and when you have the time reply to my crazy long posts, if we really need you, I can PM you on FB quickly. I know you're very busy, I don't see how you do it, with all your mentees and your crazy Koda chewer, med school, med school, med school, (have to count med school AT LEAST 3 times.. LOL)then work, and personal issues. Gives me a headache just thinking about it! Plus I have Stef and she's awesome and a wonderful mentor, as are you. I don't know if I would always have time to hand feed several times a day, I highly doubt it would be an every day thing for me to do, maybe every other day. I'm most busy in the afternoon, schedule doctor's appointments, chiro app. and muscle therapy for the afternoon, and pick up my niece at that time just about every day. I like hand feeding them and seeing them eat so well and spending quality time with them, it's just not a realistic thing on certain days. I hand fed them last night (I think it was last night? God knows where my mind has gone) and they ate a lot better. I hate when I can't be there for my babies My brain is refusing to process the organs and menu stuff right now, I re-read it like 11 times and so I'll get back to you on that tomorrow and try to figure it out in the meantime, I'm a visual learner, I can't read something any understand it, I have to see it, or do it, to get it. Okay I just went to wash the MASSIVE pile of dirty ferret soup dishes (blender, plates, bowls, etc) while my phone charged enough to be able to take their body pics. Going to go weigh them and take the pictures. I need to know, can we just say that these weigh ins and pictures are from Saturday? I don't want my system of everything Saturday to be thrown off, but I would understand, since it's 3 days after the day I was supposed to take them. Will be back with yet another post in about an hour or so.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Nov 5, 2014 4:53:22 GMT -5
]I'm not sure what organ poops are supposed to look like. Haven't seen them poop again, I'm giving Juliet some canned pumpkin in a minute, she usually poops for often than Caillou. She is like 3-4 hours and Cai is like 6-7 hours. She's acting fine, she's always lethargic so it's a matter of if she is more lethargic than usual, which varies day to day with her. Organ poops are black and loose - they look tarry. This is due to the blood content of the organ meat. Hearts too, Very excited right now, they are all three cuddled up together in Marcie's cage (dance) I put Jules and Cai in there so I could clean their cage, and they all just curled up on top of one another and went to sleep. Juliet doesn't even mind that Marcie was right on her. Yay! Although I would rather not open up the cage freely (both levels) because since there is no fabric, if I don't have something covering every single corner they won't use the litter box. And if there is no fabric they won't go to the bottom level to use it either. But Caillou has been in her cage with fabric for about an hour and hasn't chewed on anything, but he was chewing my carpet, my blanket and his carpet cat tower today, I had to put him up from playtime because he was being so difficult. He only has 1 dose left of his Baytril. Gums seem normal, I'll go compare his to Marcie's, Juliet's could be too pale for a good comparison because of her insu but Marc is healthy. That's good progress! Keep working on the "exposures" for the bedding.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Nov 5, 2014 4:57:54 GMT -5
Well, Caillou no longer cares about being prayed by water :face: he grabbed the corner of my rug and pulled it backwards trying to roll it up, and continued even having water sprayed at his face. He only stopped when I got up and went over to him then he tried to run away, he knows it's bad and he knows it's timeout time when he does bad things. Now Juliet is upset because he got her wet, and won't let him get near her. LOL. poor Juliet lol And they were not happy about their soup (8 oz pork loin, 2 oz chicken thigh, pork heart, pork liver, pudding consistency) and really did not want it. I coaxed Caillou and Marcie with 2 drops of ferretone and they dug in and ate all but 1-2 spoonfuls. Juliet on the other hand, was not amused and did not care at all about her absolute favorite treat mixed in. I gave her canned pumpkin, I couldn't even get her to eat it by mixing ferretone with it so I mixed it in with her soup. After several minutes of her fighting to get away, I got her to start eating. I had to hold her and spoon feed her, not just hold the spoon, I had to hold it above her head where the soup literally just slid into her mouth. She ate about 1.7 oz more less (out of 2 oz) but not very willingly. She was the one that when I switched from chicken breast to chicken thigh she refused to eat for 2 days, so you could say she's the type that, likes her protein the way she likes her protein. I hand fed all 3 of them, Caillou ate a few slivers, I put approx. .2 oz of tiny chicken thigh slivers in each of their soups. Cai didn't eat very many, but a few. Juliet was the same, not many. Marcie ate every one happily, like usual, and also every drop of her soup.
They got spoiled on the meat only soup the last week or two. No worries. If they are still being stubborn you can cut the organs back to about half for a few days to re-acquaint them with the taste, then up it back up to the 10%. Ho are Caillou's gums doing with the addition of the chicken? Is he excessively chewing anything besides the carpet?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 10:32:33 GMT -5
Caillou's gumline is inflamed again about 2+ days after starting chicken and is chewing obsessively again. He can't be near fabric or he will get a death grip on it and once he starts he won't stop and has to be put up in his cage. Since I couldn't get chicken thigh at the store last night their soup for the next 2 days is just pork loin, heart and liver instead of mixed with chicken thigh, if he gets better I assume that means he IS allergic to chicken. katt should I be concerned about Juliet's poop appearing to have light colored blood in them, I saw it once but she has been using the litter box that all of them use so I don't know what they look like now. They're holding weights good, Marcie gained .2 oz. I'm going to edit a post from Saturday and put in the pictures and weights and weekly update so it won't confuse anyone to have it on a Wednesday post. The pictures are on my phone and I can't seem to find it so I'll upload them later today along with the update that silly me forgot about. I know there was more I needed to ask but can't remember at the moment :face: Gotta go feed the ferts their breakfast and then go pick up my niece, will be back on later.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 13:48:21 GMT -5
Pictures- will post on a Saturday thread too Juliet- Caillou- Marcie- Juliet weighs 25.5 ounces Caillou weighs 42.2 ounces Marcie weighs 32.2 ounces
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 13:59:40 GMT -5
Ugh! Sorry they're all sideways. I'll edit them into an upright collage later today, I'm babysitting my niece right now, she screamed bloody murder for 2 hours and my mom had a little breakdown and started crying asking me and my sister to take her, so we're up in my room, watching American Horror Story and she's laughing watching the ferrets play and trying to chase them, keeping me on my toes hovering over her. She's 9 mo and fights sleep like it's some terrible thing, for hours on end will cry and then just pass out randomly. Waiting for her to sleep now.. lol..
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 14:01:27 GMT -5
Katt checked in and answered the hard questions. I agree with you, I don't know how she does it all.
I'm a visual learner also. Take a piece of paper and write down the Frankenprey menu and tape it to something that you see alot. The fridge would be best, but ask your Mom. Or your bedroom/bathroom mirror.
This is all you have to write down:
7-9 meals of Bone In 3-4 meals of Muscle meat 1 Organ meal of Half Liver and Half other Organ 1 Organ meal of Half Liver and Half other Organ and a half meal of Heart. At least three proteins. At least one meal of Red Meat Bone In: Non Weight bearing bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller. Organs are secreting Organs: kidney, spleen, thymus, pancreas, brains Heart is a Muscle Meat.
That should be easy to copy and will help to reinforce the menu in your head.
I haven't forgotten about your asking me to check on Implants. I'm going to try to work on that today. :wave2:
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 14:39:56 GMT -5
I will write that out and put it on the fridge downstairs, we're there a lot and it's where I make their food. I tried calling around on Saturday but all but 2 were closed, and I forgot about it Monday and Tuesday. If I can't find a Lupron to be shipped here I'll have to somehow find the money for the Des, they'll be off backorder this month I think but the one in Alabama is discounted for being old, I just called to see about the price, they couldn't tell me, they didn't know, so they left Dr. Atlas there a message to call me back, should be getting his call sometime today. If it's around $100 I can probably get it soon, but any more than $150 I'm not sure about. But in the meantime I'm calling around about Lupron. Thank you for helping me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 16:29:39 GMT -5
I FOUND ONE!!!!!! I called the Volunteer Vet Clinic in Hendersonville (2hrs from me) and they do Lupron Injections, and I think possibly do them fairly often. I told the Vet assistant my situation and she was happy to leave a message for the Vet there that does them to give me a call back sometime tomorrow to discuss if he will ship it to me or not. The bad part is, I have to talk to my mom about it.. again. Once I know the cost of the Deslorelin, we can determine which will be better. The injection she said is $46 but if I had to pay shipping it would (obviously) be more. I don't know the general cost of shipping those types of items, though. It all boils down to cost, whether we get the Des or Lupron is up to which is going to be cheaper right now. If the DES is $200 and I have to pay $40 shipping BUT it would last 4-6 mo and the Lupron was $50 and I had to pay $40 shipping it'd be $90 for 4-6 weeks. So in this scenario I'm not sure of. But if the DES is $100 and the shipping is more like $30 then we'd go for the DES. It's all up to my mother, she (and me) have been avoiding this but we need to address it. 8 mo is too long to be untreated for cancer, poor little Juliet. I won't talk to her about it until I know the cost of everything so it will be a few days. I wish this Vet was closer so we could drive, but she won't drive 1 hour to UT so she won't drive 2 hours to this Vet clinic. Fingers crossed! I REALLY need prayers and hopes and wishes and to have lady luck on my side.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 18:43:50 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad they are willing to work with you. That's the clinic that I took Roamy to, when he got ECE from Mika. They are ferret savvy and it's a nice clinic. They see alot of ferrets and even work with the Nashville Zoo.
Are you sure that it's two hours away? Hendersonville is close to Nashville and I think it's more like four hours. I'm not trying to be a bummer, but check Mapquest or Google it again.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 18:54:16 GMT -5
I was so surprised I didn't know what to say next on the phone with her, I apologized LOL, I was like, "What? You have Lupron, you carry it, right now?" and she said "Yes we have Lupron Depot" and I just said "Oh, wow, okay... um.... sorry I've called like 15 places looking for it!" and she laughed and we discussed Juliet and everything. I really hope we can either get this or get Des soon. And hoping they call tomorrow like they said they would, the sooner the better! And I re-googled it, yeah it's 4 hours and 50 mins, I don't know how I got 2 hours? She asked how far I was from them and I was trying to find out quickly, I'm terrible with directions/places/etc.
Last night I gave the ferrets .3 oz of pork slivers, about 2x the size of nail crescent slivers I'd say. They ate them fairly well, of course they were VERY difficult about it at first but I was absolutely not letting them leave until they ate them. Marcie sucked them down like nothing, she eats quickly and shoves her face into it unlike Juliet, Jules takes little bitty licks one at a time very neatly. How should I know when to increase the sliver size? They're not eating the size slivers they were a few weeks ago, they're smaller.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2014 21:56:58 GMT -5
Okay I think I fixed the pictures. I'm posting the weekly update on a Saturday post back a page or two but I'll post it here too so you can easily read it. 1. Ferret's name: Caillou 2. Ferret's weight: 42.2 ounces 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: 4 ounces 4. Stools on various proteins: Good, "normal" on Pork 5. Activity levels: Good, more active since the new ferret 6. Weekly menu: Pork soup (8 oz pork, 1 oz liver, 1 oz heart, 3/4 tsp eggshell powder) and pork slivers 1. Ferret's name: Juliet 2. Ferret's weight: 25.5 ounces 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: 3-4 ounces 4. Stools on various proteins: Black and tarry once on liver and heart but a bit more normal now. 5. Activity levels: Off and on, due to insulinoma & adrenal. 6. Weekly menu: Pork soup (balanced) and pork slivers 1. Ferret's name: Marcie 2. Ferret's weight: 32.2 ounces 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: 4 ounces 4. Stools on various proteins: Normal seeming, small, dark brown sometimes light brown, nice consistency, smelly from detox 5. Activity levels: Hyper and crazy 6. Weekly menu: Pork soup (balanced) Pictures, Caillou- Juliet- Marcie- will edit in the daily log after I feed them in a little bit. Didn't want to forgot to post this.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Nov 5, 2014 22:01:28 GMT -5
Okay let's see blood in poops - can you get a pic? The dark tarry poops sound just like organ poops to me. If Caillou's gums look inflamed again stop the chicken immediately and go back to the pork. If his gums get better then yes, it is very possible that chicken may be the cause. We can give beef a shot next since you said you have it on hand, but FIRST we need to get him back to stable grounds. So: 1.) STOP chicken 2.) Pork ONLY diet for at least 4 days 3.) Brush his teeth - have you tried this yet? A little gauze or even a piece of paper towel should be sufficient. You honestly just need to use a little baking soda and water. Mix a little water into the baking soda to make it into a paste consistency, put some on a piece of paper towel over your finger, and scruff him while scrubbing his teeth with it. Then after be sure to give him some loves. Try to do this as many days a week as you can, but shoot for a minimum of 2-3 times a week. It shouldn't take more than 2-5 min. Sounds like you and the ferrets both did a great job last night. It's all about out-stubborning them! A good rule to follow for increasing sliver size is when they start to feel comfortable eating that size sliver, give them 1-2 more meals of that size, and then increase it. So after today if they still took the slivers okay, I'd move up. If you can be really persistent with the hand feeding and really push them we should be able to really push them forwards quite a bit. I understand a busy schedule though (hahaha) so if hand feeding isn't an option on a given day, still give them the slivers but realize they may try to pick around them and it will take longer to get them to accept each size increase. For the menu, let me PM one of my old mentees who had a beautiful color coded calendar for her menu. If you are a visual learning I think you would really have a better time understanding it in that format. Fingers crossed for the Des! Did I miss any questions?
|
|
|
Post by katt on Nov 5, 2014 22:03:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I didn't check in yesterday. Paul's stepmother passed away. She had been battling pancreatic cancer. Paul's father died 34 years ago and we didn't talk to Ilene very often, but all the same, it was a sad day and Paul spent most of his time on the phone talking with other family. The scarey part is that Paul's mom also has pancreatic cancer and just like Ilene, she has been feeling good lately. Ilene had her cancer about six months before Paul's mom got her cancer. So, it's upset everyone. Had to go back and find this post. I'm very sorry for your loss. Send Paul and the family my condolences.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Nov 5, 2014 22:09:16 GMT -5
It's fine Katt, you should help your friend and when you have the time reply to my crazy long posts, if we really need you, I can PM you on FB quickly. I know you're very busy, I don't see how you do it, with all your mentees and your crazy Koda chewer, med school, med school, med school, (have to count med school AT LEAST 3 times.. LOL)then work, and personal issues. Gives me a headache just thinking about it! Plus I have Stef and she's awesome and a wonderful mentor, as are you. I don't know if I would always have time to hand feed several times a day, I highly doubt it would be an every day thing for me to do, maybe every other day. I'm most busy in the afternoon, schedule doctor's appointments, chiro app. and muscle therapy for the afternoon, and pick up my niece at that time just about every day. I like hand feeding them and seeing them eat so well and spending quality time with them, it's just not a realistic thing on certain days. I hand fed them last night (I think it was last night? God knows where my mind has gone) and they ate a lot better. I hate when I can't be there for my babies My brain is refusing to process the organs and menu stuff right now, I re-read it like 11 times and so I'll get back to you on that tomorrow and try to figure it out in the meantime, I'm a visual learner, I can't read something any understand it, I have to see it, or do it, to get it. Okay I just went to wash the MASSIVE pile of dirty ferret soup dishes (blender, plates, bowls, etc) while my phone charged enough to be able to take their body pics. Going to go weigh them and take the pictures. I need to know, can we just say that these weigh ins and pictures are from Saturday? I don't want my system of everything Saturday to be thrown off, but I would understand, since it's 3 days after the day I was supposed to take them. Will be back with yet another post in about an hour or so. No work, med school is a full time job. But yeah it's intense. Just have to keep swimming.... the past week has been particularly rough. RE the hand feeding, even every other day would be good. For the multiple meals a day I didn't necessarily mean hand feed 3x a day, I meant give them their am meals, then in the afternoon hand feed, then maybe again before dinner if you have time. Was just thinking that if your mornings are really hectic, you could break the am meal into 2 parts to squeeze in a little hand feeding in the afternoons on those super busy days if that was an option. ETA: oh and based on pics weights are looking great.
|
|