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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 13:55:45 GMT -5
Ah, too bad about the Waardy boy, but your right, at least they want him still. That is awesome that you get to free roam, that is my goal when my kids are older. The 2 and 4 year old must be constantly monitored, but luckily the 7 year old is pretty good with them and can help with that 'duty' haha A feeding den is the best way to help with stashing, ferrets like to feel secure when eating and also like to 'hide' their treasure so it kind of helps with both of these instincts. Also, with the stashing, if you 'hang' your food they will not be able to take off with it quite as easily. Here is how I have mine set up: I basically am able to hang the big pieces and the things that will not hang as easily (most organs, they tear too easily) I will just put on a plate. This is about how big most pieces are. And really I only cut it up that much to be able to bag it easier and have 'servings' This is about all I have left most mornings, even less here lately now that they are fattening up for the winter haha The shower hooks, hung on a key ring, hang it at the perfect height. It is about an inch off the floor and even my tiny girl can reach everything easily And the soupie with the beef hidden inside is PERFECT. Keep the amount about the same until he finishes it and then increase the beef, I feel like at one point they just get used to the taste and do really well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 9:06:06 GMT -5
Your feeding den is amazing! I'm going to try and set one up just like that this weekend. I like the idea of hanging. I did hang some stuff when we first got icarus but I ran out of gloves and I have icky issues with touching the meat so thats entirely my fault. I'll work on that too haha
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2014 12:15:10 GMT -5
I work in the medical field, so I glove for most things just out of habit haha I know some that use those cleaning rubber gloves and just rinse and wash them each time. This way you can re-use them. You might not have the dexterity with them, but it should work. But, yes, I love my feeding den. Keeps things, cage and my house, much cleaner and ALMOST 'stash' free. I certainly can not take credit for the idea, but I do love it! Here is another photo I couldn't find that shows the size better.... I use the same kind of bin for the litter box and feeding den. It fits PERFECTLY into the FN! Any plastic tub/bin would work though. Oh and here is a link on how it was made too! holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/4544/feeding-den-setups
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 13:36:48 GMT -5
Just wanted to check in.
Opie still working on the beef. Unfortunately I have the flu pretty bad so I'm trying to avoid the ferrets So they don't get sick. My husband has been preparing their meals for me. He said opie ate more of the slivers than the last few days but still leaves the bigger ones especially after the soupie is licked clean. Slow going but he's making progress.
Icarus never usually gives me problems but apparently the first time my husband tried feeding him he ignored the food. It's the same as he always gets. He has since warmed up to it but could it be that he's not use to my husband handeling it and his smell/presence?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2014 17:42:26 GMT -5
I am sorry your feeling bad, but it's nice that you have a spouse that is willing to carry the load when you can't! Sounds like Opie is doing better with the beef. It could definitely be he is not 'used' to your husband doing the hand feeding. Just like how they bond with other ferrets, they can also bond with humans too. If you are their main 'caretaker' then they are likely bonded more with you.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 10:38:30 GMT -5
Just checking in. How are you feeling? I hope the flu has past. How's the beef going? Have they warmed up to hubby a bit more now that mommy isn't able to do as much?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 10:57:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry I didn't post on Monday! The flu was still killing me. Started feeling better last night thankfully. My husband "says" Opie is eating beef but I need to see it to believe it. I'm feeding them their dinner tonight and I'll be separating back into their own areas to eat (husband is lazy) so I'll be able to judge if he actually is eating it. I was told he ate about 2oz of sliced up beef cube steak with no "gravy" and if that's true YAYYY my husband wins a cookie hahah Icarus is doing great and working on bigger pieces of bone. We had gotten a bag of pork "pieces" all chunks and such with some bone from the butcher really cheap. I didn't except Icky to eat the bone because it seemed a little big even though it was cut into smaller pieces. After eating all of the marrow clean he actually ate a good portion. Next week I want to work on Opie's jaw strength. He didn't have much bone or gizzard while I was sick but not that he is eating beef I want to make him a menu like icarus has. The poor ferts were confined to their ferret nation while I was sick instead of free roaming. I was so worried they would get sick so they are anxious to get out today and I have a lot of cleaning to do. I will write up a proper update as soon as I get my house back in order.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2014 15:38:59 GMT -5
No problem and I am glad your doing better! Sounds like (if all is true...) that they are doing great! Beef tends to be a hurdle, so even if they are not quite eating it well, that's ok. And pork bones, even ones cut up, are a huge accomplishment! Good job boys! haha I look forward to more updates later. Take care and keep up all the great work with these boys.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 19:30:56 GMT -5
I wanted to write out this coming weeks menu today because tomorrow and monday the ferrets and I are going to visit family and I might not be able to get on again until Tuesday. I also have a couple of questions.
I apologize again for not updating more this week. The week was kind of a mess with my being sick. They mostly ate chicken soupie and beef but I want to get back on track. The boys will be following the same menu this week.
Sunday AM I have a whole quail feathers and all so my question is do I feed it in one shot? or break it down and have parts for breakfast and parts for dinner. I'm not really sure how to go about whole prey yet. I also don't know how whole prey effects the rest of the week as far as the frankenprey. Sunday PM ^
Monday AM Turkey Wing tips w/olive oil Monday PM Chicken necks
Tuesday AM Chicken gizzards Tuesday PM chicken livers & lamb kidney & calf heart
Wednesday AM chicken back Wednesday PM chicken wings
Thursday AM Chicken hearts Thursday PM Lamb Meat w/egg yolk
Friday AM duck wings Friday PM Beef Kidney & pork liver
Saturday AM duck wings Saturday PM turkey wing tips
I'm going to weigh them again this week also. I'm concerned that Icarus is gaining too much weight and that Opie might be losing too much. I have to feed them what I have left in my freezer but when I do my next haul should I cut back on stuff like duck for icarus? I'm also going to place an order with hare today gone tomorrow on friday for some grinds and also whole prey. Our landlord raises chickens and has offered to give us some when they cull the chicks but I'm not sure what the nutritional value of the younger ones are.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 0:12:39 GMT -5
I just wanted to pop in and answer your questions. First about the younger chicks. There's a bit of debate about younger animals being more of a treat because of there lack of nutritious value. One argument being their bones do not have the highest amount of calcium as an older animal. Many people use things such as pinkies and day old chicks more of a treat than a full meal. I am of the opinion that as long as it isn't done often, it should be ok so basically like a treat.
Also the the question about whole prey. So when you feed a meal of WP you are basically feeding a fully balanced meal, so you can subtract the total number from the 14 meals and use the same %s but the amount will just vary. Does that make sense? So let's say you feed 4 meals of WP in a week, so that leaves 10 meals so you can use the same 10% hearts, 10% organ/liver, and so on.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 18:28:00 GMT -5
Opie is def eating beef without a problem. I forgot to defrost my chicken necks in time so we had to switch up tonights dinner. He ate about 3oz of beef chunks all on his own. YAY opie! Do i have enough red meats for him now? His poops are starting to firm up too. Only "gooey" after organ meals. He's down to 2.06oz down from 2.11oz I'm not sure what his healthy weight should be but I'm concerned he keeps losing. Icarus on the other hand went up another few oz even though i cut back on his oil and fatty parts like skin. I'd feel better if they were both losing because then I'd feel like I just need to give them more but It worries me that opie keeps losing even when I up his food (he doesnt eat more, he just leaves it)
Also, I've read on here that both fish oil and olive oil are okay. I've been using olive oil but I wanted to know if the health benefits were better from the fish? or does it not matter?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 14:21:02 GMT -5
Opie is def eating beef without a problem. I forgot to defrost my chicken necks in time so we had to switch up tonights dinner. He ate about 3oz of beef chunks all on his own. YAY opie! Do i have enough red meats for him now? Yay Opie! 3 oz is a lot too! lil piggy... it always shocks me how much their little bellies fit when there young or just starting the switch. haha And yes, having ANY red meats in their diet is a great thing. Honestly, unless you have access to something like bison, venison, goat, or lamb, beef is going to be the easiest option. You also said you were going to do an order from HareToday, I have ordered their Lamb mince and my kids did well on it. A few benefits there: a new protein, a new 'type' of meal (ie the mince, always good to have them used to eating different type of meats in case you have an injury or something that doesn't allow full BI meals, this way they still get the BI requirements), it is mostly considered a 'whole prey' so you can adjust your menu accordingly (although as you likely read this is in debate and SOMETIMES the mince doesn't have all the requirements, but as long as you are not feeding it daily it will all balance out), AND your getting another red meat in. But I am excited that he is eating the beef, sometimes that can be a hurdle. Reading back I see Icky is already eating Lamb, so that's a good thing... His poops are starting to firm up too. Only "gooey" after organ meals. He's down to 2.06oz down from 2.11oz I'm not sure what his healthy weight should be but I'm concerned he keeps losing. Icarus on the other hand went up another few oz even though i cut back on his oil and fatty parts like skin. I'd feel better if they were both losing because then I'd feel like I just need to give them more but It worries me that opie keeps losing even when I up his food (he doesn't eat more, he just leaves it) Honestly, I would not be too worried about Opie's weight loss. It is not too rapid for his age. My pepe is about his age and I feel like he loss more and more everyday, but he LOOKS good. Nice and slender, 'tube-like', and very toned and muscular. He no longer looks like a baby hehe Looking back, it has been a few weeks since we saw pics, so try to post some new ones here soon and we will double check that he looks ok. Also, remember that Icky is still a baby and he is going to gain like crazy, especially on this new diet, but he will go through this loss too. Opie is like my Pepe in that they were born the wrong time of year, they likely have their season's mixed up and will 'fatten' up and grow this lovely coat just in time for the summer months Poor babies are gonna be skinny and bald this winter! Lets see, it's pepe's first winter too, but like I said he looks SO thin (just in my head compared to how CHUNKY he was and fluffy...) and bald right now that it's getting colder.
Also, be carefull about cutting back on the fatty portions on Icky. Remember ferts have a HIGH metabolism and fat=energy! It is a good way to decrease their weight, but babies can be chunky. LOVE the baby fat!Also, I've read on here that both fish oil and olive oil are okay. I've been using olive oil but I wanted to know if the health benefits were better from the fish? or does it not matter? I am not 100% sure on which is 'best' but I do know that mine will not TOUCH fish oil.... My best guess is that fish oil likely has more health benefits because of the Omega's in them. From what I am able to read through now it appears the only one to 'avoid' is cod oil because it has more Omega 6's and it is the 3 that is beneficial. BUT others are saying to not remove olive oil because it is a better 'hairball' remedy. (I put hairball in quotes because ferts do not get hairballs like a cat who can cough it up on their own, it can actually up and cause a blockage, especially during shedding season when they are grooming and will ingest more of it than normally. The oils and well as egg helps push this through.) I think, like anything, the main thing is to feed in moderation. You can maybe (if you can even get them to eat it) feed fish oil one week and olive the other. Also, I ment to ask earlier, is there a reason you only feed part of the egg? I ask because it is actually best to feed the whole egg. Here is a good thread all about it: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/3811/raw-eggs-safeWith anything you feed your fert, just think of it as what a ferret in the wild would do. I guarantee they would not separate the yolk and whites and only eat one of the other. If a polecat is lucky enough to chance upon a nest they are likely to eat the whole darn dozen....and have the runs for a while lol Now we don't want that, so 1-2 eggs a week is more than enough, but feeding the whole egg is perfectly fine and in fact recommended. The shell can technically be fed also, but they are less likely to eat it. A fun enrichment idea might be to find quail eggs and see what they do with them. Crack one open and once they see there's goodies inside see if they will try to get at another (giggle)
Also, I just wanted to mention that your menu looks GREAT. It appears you are comfortably making adjustments if you need to and are doing wonderfully. Keep tossing the questions at me and if things keep going like they are we will have you graduated sooner rather than later.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 12:00:28 GMT -5
I'm waiting on my husband to get home so he can help me take some photos. Icarus is a speed demon and needs at least two people to get a decent photo haha As far as the egg yolk, the reason I was giving only the yolk is because someone had told me the white wasn't that healthy for them. I should've fact checked that a little more but I thought my source was reliable. Next week I will give them a whole egg. I can actually get quail eggs from my landlord so I might try doing that and see if they can get into it. I also finally got some frozen mice to see if they would eat them. Opie was having none of it, of course, he is my picky boy. After cutting open the belly and adding olive oil, Icarus went to town. When he was done there was just a little pile of stuff he didn't want, I think the intestines. I'm going to try slicing up little pieces and mixing it with something Opie likes next week. I also placed my order with Hare Today. I got three pounds whole ground rabbit and guinea pig mixes. I also got two pounds of the mutton and one pound of turkey, it's their favorite flavor I through in some whole prey as well. Can't wait for it all to get here! I do have one other question. I've been really worried about the move from NY to FL. Trying to figure out how to keep enough food frozen for the trip etc. I'm also concerned about having enough to cover us for the few days we get settled in and can find new places to get everything they need. I'm def going to be placing an order with Hare Today shortly after moving but that will even take a little time to get to us. Someone had told me to try getting stella & chewy's and just getting a few bags of that for the trip. I read a little about it last night so I know it's raw just like a kibble version. Is that something that would be okay? I don't want to back track in anyway. I would rather have to make space for a huge cooler and hope for the best but I figured I'd ask.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 13:19:23 GMT -5
I'm waiting on my husband to get home so he can help me take some photos. Icarus is a speed demon and needs at least two people to get a decent photo haha I hear ya! I was having my 7 year old help me one time and he did fine with 2lb 6oz Oliver and lil 1lb 5oz Ruby, but when he tried to hold up fatty, at the time, 3lb 9oz Pepe he couldn't and the photo just came out really funny. As far as the egg yolk, the reason I was giving only the yolk is because someone had told me the white wasn't that healthy for them. I should've fact checked that a little more but I thought my source was reliable. Next week I will give them a whole egg. I can actually get quail eggs from my landlord so I might try doing that and see if they can get into it. There is certainly some debate about it. I always like the illustration of 'what they would eat in the wild,' made the most sense to me and it is essentially what we are trying to mimic anyhow. That, and it's less work!I also finally got some frozen mice to see if they would eat them. Opie was having none of it, of course, he is my picky boy. After cutting open the belly and adding olive oil, Icarus went to town. When he was done there was just a little pile of stuff he didn't want, I think the intestines. I'm going to try slicing up little pieces and mixing it with something Opie likes next week. Good job Icky! Don'tcha love the easy ones haha You are doing exactly what you need to (ie slcicing it up and hiding it in meals) for Opie. Hopefully they will be on the same meals soon, that also makes life easier haha Oh and Icky did just what they will always do, leave us a little present of intestines... Always gross, but normal. Sometimes they leave the belly too. Mine are funny, when I toss in thawed mice they fight over the tails (the best part I guess) and then the heads go... later they decide to eat the rest. I also placed my order with Hare Today. I got three pounds whole ground rabbit and guinea pig mixes. I also got two pounds of the mutton and one pound of turkey, it's their favorite flavor I through in some whole prey as well. Can't wait for it all to get here! That is exciting! The things that make our heart swoon... Is it your eventual goal to go purely whole pray? I do have one other question. I've been really worried about the move from NY to FL. Trying to figure out how to keep enough food frozen for the trip etc. I'm also concerned about having enough to cover us for the few days we get settled in and can find new places to get everything they need. I'm def going to be placing an order with Hare Today shortly after moving but that will even take a little time to get to us. Someone had told me to try getting stella & chewy's and just getting a few bags of that for the trip. I read a little about it last night so I know it's raw just like a kibble version. Is that something that would be okay? I don't want to back track in anyway. I would rather have to make space for a huge cooler and hope for the best but I figured I'd ask. As far as traveling, I am not as familiar with it myself. Also, I don't know much about the stella&chewy's and would be worried myself that they might revert back or not eat it at all. Here is a forum made specifically for traveling with ferrets, see if it has any info that might help. You can make your own thread in that area and others might have some great ideas. Also, you might PM katt she recently made a HUGE move and might have some great ideas for you.
holisticferret60.proboards.com/board/71/traveling-ferrets
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Post by katt on Oct 18, 2014 12:16:44 GMT -5
NY to FL isn't too big of a move for keeping meat frozen. Get a cooler and some dry ice (sold at most grocery stores) and you'll be golden. Also, you will be driving through pretty populated areas so you can always stop and pick up a new cheap container of wings from stores along the way and just keep a small amount of meat in a lunch-box sized cooler (with ice or dry ice) for a few days at a time. If you have lots of meat in your freezer, get a big cooler and put it all in frozen - the meat will act as ice for itself, then just top it with some dry ice. Kept ours frozen for about 2-3 days before we needed to get more ice and even then stuff was still frozen pretty solid. A little bit of partial thawing won't hurt as long as it all stays cold. Freeze dried is great too.
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