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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 0:25:52 GMT -5
Name: Bonnie HF Forum Username: ZombieGirlXi
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? Somewhere only the internet, though I knew it as B.A.R.F.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I want to fully switch to a raw diet. I'm not interested in feeding whole prey, frozen/thawed, live, or otherwise.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I want to provide him the best care I can and that means giving him the best diet I can.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Of course I understand that, I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't love my boy and want what's best for him no matter what. The internet just led me to believe that switching to raw was much easier than it is so I need the extra help from a Mentor or just friendly advice from the community.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? Severus, Male, Unknown Age (suspected age to be 7-9 months), 44.43 oz, possible ear mites: Treatment from 7th of June to 13th of June next check up 10th of July, Ferrant since May 24th
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? He is current eating Zupreem Ferret Food, Vitetone, and Ferretlax.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? I tried to begin the switch by wetting his dry kibble and giving it to him. Everyday it would be wetter and wetter, when it began to get spongy he regressed and refused to eat until offered dry kibble.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I love my boy and I just want to do the best I can by him. While I know that many on here feel that feeding whole prey is the absolute best, I just can't stomach the idea of feeding Severus rats, mice, rabbits, or baby chicks. I spent the last four years owning rats and I can't move past the fact that I know that they have such wonderfully amazing personalities and yet I'm feeding them to my ferret. However, I know that ferrets are obligate carnivores and he deserves to have a better diet than kibble.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Lately I try to keep it to a two hour daily minimum on days I work, but on my days off I tend to be on and off all day.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). I'll post pictures in the next post.
11. Have you met the requirements for this program? Do you have your scale, a place to access meats, hearts, livers, etc? I'm working on getting enough posts, but I have a ton of stores to get the meats and organs, and I have a scale (and a coffee grinder for the eggshells!)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 1:12:22 GMT -5
Alright so I assume we write in this like a journal? I hope so. So, I'm just going to start this out, put all the important info, current photos, etc. 1. Ferret's name: Severus 2. Ferret's weight: 44.43 - 44.45 oz (no amount of ferretone/ferretlax would make him hold still) 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: 1 tablespoon of kibble every three hours. More given when needed. 4. Stools on various proteins: Normal for kibble fed. 5. Activity levels: Good? I'm not sure whats considered normal for a ferret, but he will run around for nearly an hour (or two depends on his mood and if he feels like causing trouble) and then nap for an hour to three hours before getting up to eat, use the bathroom, and cause more mayhem. 6. Weekly menu: Will be started on Sunday Here are some current photos for reference. Top down: Side: Cute:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 10:26:54 GMT -5
Severus is just beautiful. His silver and white coloring make his name, even more perfect. Have you ever tried to offer any pieces of raw meat or is kibble, the only thing that he eats? Try offering a few slices of long thin cut chicken and see what he thinks. Hand feed him and if he doesn't want it, try running it under warm water and offer it to him again. If he still doesn't like it, dip it in some ferretone and offer it again. You don't want to rely on ferretone, but in this case, give it a try. Ferretone is rather controversial and your official Mentor will want to move you away from this and try using fish oil or EVOO, instead. But that's later down the road. The first thing that most Mentors suggest is making soupie. To make soupie, you need: 8oz of chicken (thigh) is best, but breast also works. 1-2 chicken hearts 1/2 chicken liver 1/2 tsp of dried eggshell powder. Add a little warm water. Some ferrets like it thick and paste like, some like it watery. Blend this up in a food processor, magic bullet or blender. Severus won't eat all of this, so you can freeze most of it for later. Freeze it in ice cube trays, and its super easy to to pop a cube out and let it defrost. After you make the soup, sit on the floor with him. Dip your finger or a spoon into the soup and dab it on his mouth. He will lick it off, and might run away. Pick him up and try again. You will have more success sitting with him, then just setting the dish down and waiting for him to eat it. You want to get him eating his soupies and liking them. Soupies have several purposes. If a ferret gets sick and loses his appetite, soupies are a good way to get them to eat. Just like chicken soup for people, even without an appetite, most sick people will manage some soup. Another reason for soupies is that its a great way to introduce the next new protein. Instead of chicken, you can make a soupie with pork. The third reason is that in their weekly menu, they get two meals of organs. We want them to eat chunks, but most of us will make our organ meals into a soup. You have nine posts now, you will be at 15 easily. Remember, it's 15 Posts, not Threads. That's super easy, greet new members, comment on a picture or ask a question. Several Mentors are going to be freed up soon, so you should get one rather quickly. Let us know how it goes, and have fun. This is a great bonding time for you and Severus
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 15:13:30 GMT -5
I thought the exact same thing when I first met him in person. He was just so amazingly perfect that I was just head over heels in love with him. I chose the name Severus because I was just finishing the entire HP series (again) and I always loved Professor Snape because he was just so misunderstood. The name fits little Sev like a glove. I had forgotten to add that I made him a version of soup I was told. It consisted of using a ground meat (I went with ground chicken) and a grain free can of cat food. I want to say I used call of the wild? But I can't remember. I just remember it was duck (The store had lamb, venison, duck, and hare, I figured duck would be best since it's both poultry) I mixed the two into a paste and brought him the bowl. I sat down with him and put a tiny nibble in his mouth and he pushed it out with his tongue. I tried several more times, but he wanted nothing to do with it. I still have the ground chicken (I froze the left overs) and I was wondering if I could use that instead of thigh meat. Anyway I saw another tutorial talking about how to get them to meat, so I figured I could save the raw chicken until we get to that switching point. The other tutorial is the one I mentioned using. OH! I also tried giving him a boiled egg, and I managed to get him to eat a few bits of it, but it was slathered it ferretone (this was the fourth attempt to get him the egg nibbles) and really he only licked the ferretone off and spat out the egg. On to treats that I've tried. I offered him dried chicken strips and I bought him dried lamb (more like freezer dried), as well as a bit of duck roll that my friend got for his dog (brand new), a bit of trachea (not sure what animal it was from). My husband offered him a bit of kfc chicken meat and I grilled a hamburger the other day (for my husband, it'd be silly to do that for Sev, when it's so obvious that he hates all meats ) and he didn't even offer them a cursory lick. The only thing that isn't ferret friendly, strictly speaking, that he shows any interest in is ice cream. My god he is the worst harrasser when it comes to ice cream. Not nearly as bad as the rats I've owned (who will grab your spoon out of your mouth to get to the ice cream on it, or just fling themselves head first into your bowl), but he's a bit bigger and just as persistent. As for candies, chips, pop corn, and chocolate he has no interest in any of them except to stash them. He's working on his horde, lol. (Please don't think I offer them to him! I just watch him and see what he does and take anything anyway that I think is harmful. I know his body language well enough now to see what he wants to eat and what he wants to steal and stash. I swear I don't give him human junk food he gets enough ferretone and ferretlax for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 15:31:50 GMT -5
Okay, so a quick update. Tonight I'm making the soupie. I'm making myself eggs as soon as I hit enter on this post so they will be dried. I plan on giving him the soupie tonight at midnight (I'm up late most nights). All kibble will be removed from his cage starting at 9:50 (to make sure I get it all), the soupie will be prepared with in the two hour period between, I will begin to offer at 12(give or take ten minutes), and I will stop offering at 12:30. Regular kibble will be put back into his cage at 2:30, then it will be bed time. I'll update in the time after clean up is done to write out how it went. Weigh in and weekly menu will be posted tomorrow when I get home from work.
Also how long does the soupie keep in the fridge? And will twice/once daily feedings with the soupie be enough to begin the switch, I can attempt to make it more, but my work and life schedule is a bit off. I'm sure I can work something out, just to make sure he gets enough soupie feedings, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 15:55:01 GMT -5
Ferrets imprint on their food around six months to a year old. So, you will be teaching him that this new food, is actually food and okay to eat. Don't get discouraged, it can take some time to teach him. You also want to figure out, how he likes his food. Alot of times, I will run a piece of warm water over a piece of food and offer it. The warm water releases the smell. They usually don't care for cold food, either. You've been using Ferretone, try using a little olive oil. My Roamy loves fish oil, you can try that. Mika loves to be spoon fed. You don't want to do that regularly, but in the beginning, its worth a try.
Eggs may take more than a few hours to dry. It depends on where you live, but mine take at least a day or two in the winter and one day in the summer. Make sure they are ground into a fine powder.
Its best to offer only one protein at a time. That way, if there is any reaction, you know what protein is responsible. Their weekly menu needs at least three proteins, but in the beginning, offer just one protein for the first few days. You will probably have some loose poops in the beginning. The organs in the soup always make for loose poops.
As for offering egg, Adding an egg once or twice a week is great. You don't need to cook it, just crack the egg in a dish and add a little warm water. I add a little egg to some ground turkey or ground pork once a week. Again, that's later down the road for you.
You want to allow a few hours between offering kibble and raw. They can get an upset tummy if they eat both, at the same time.
If you follow the soup recipe and make about eight ounce, you can freeze the rest in ice cube trays. I have four ferrets, so when I make soup, I keep it in the fridge for a day or two at most.
Its fun to watch Severus stash stuff, but don't offer any chocolate (its dangerous, just like it is for dogs) He may just stash the candy and stuff, but he will eat it, at some point. Maybe you can find something else to let him stash.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 16:15:56 GMT -5
I currently live in ottawa, but today is bright and sunny so I'm letting the eggs sun dry. I was hoping to have the soupie ready for him by tonight, but if eggs really take that long to dry it will more than likely be fed tomorrow evening when I get home from work. I'll write later tonight on whether we try the soupie tonight or not. And yeah, I feel bad for not knowing that more proteins all at once is not healthy for him (right away at least) at the time, but at least he didn't really eat it so no harm no fowl. (HA! Bad pun is bad. ) I don't let him stash food, simply because I know he might be tempted to eat it later. It's hard to describe. I know he's not interested in devouring any candies right away so it's funny watching him try to get it so he can stash it, but it just gets moved and he goes on with life. It's the ice cream that he wants to eat right then, right there that makes it hard to just move him. He'll keep coming back until you remove the source (bowl and spoon.) I hope that clears up the candy thing. I don't let him do more than sniff the stuff before I move it from him.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 20:11:54 GMT -5
I Love Puns...and your No Harm, No Fowl is very punny (giggle).
Don't feel bad, that's what Mentors are here for and why its nice to have an unofficial switching thread. There is alot of reading and its easy to overlook something simple like that.
That's good to know about the Candy. When I had my first ferret Ponce, eight years ago, the info was so different. Everyone told me that raisins and cheerios made good treats, even my Vet (who owned ferrets). So, here on the forum, we tend to want to stress this, especially to new ferrents.
I can't blame Severus for Loving the idea of Ice Cream. I do too. My Roamy is obsessed with lettuce. If a salad is around, he goes crazy trying to get to it. His previous ferrent must have offered lettuce. She named him Romeo, I changed it to Roamy and as it turns out, it must be short for Romaine.
I hope all goes well with the soupie tonight. Its so exciting, the first time that they actually taste and like something. My Roamy, Juliet and Mika love Soupie. Wynstan doesn't, he went straight to slices of raw chicken. Now on organ soup day, I have to encourage him to eat soup, but he eats great, the rest of the week.
I'll check in again in the morning. In the meantime, some other Mentors may pop in.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 1:14:34 GMT -5
Well the store I went to right by my house(five minutes walk) does not have chicken livers. It's chicken gizzards. Darn. Anyway they do have beef liver, and a ton of different meat cuts, but no livers in the chicken variety. Which means that I have to bus to the farther stores (I know for a fact that one of the stores by me sells livers, I swear! And if not I know there is a couple of butchers by here. :/ I just have a hard time remembering and since I have no car I can't just drive place to place. Ugh, I'll keep searching when I go to work tomorrow.
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Post by dorena261-Natalia on Jun 29, 2014 5:43:47 GMT -5
you can add approx. 2oz any other kind of liver- whatever you can get., it doesn't have to be a chicken liver if you can't find it at the moment
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 10:35:31 GMT -5
I thought that mixing proteins in the beginning was bad, in case he had a reaction to it, I wouldn't know for sure which did it? Either way it's probably for the best if I wait until next sunday to start this. It will give me more time to prepare and in the mean time I can find out what store sells exactly what so there will be none of this stumbling. When you freeze their meals in advance about how long would it be worth it to leave in the freezer and they still derive nutrition from it? 1 month, 2?
12:42 PM: Okay so I headed over o work and the lady said she had sent me an email saying that she didn't need me today, so I swung by the store on my way home, picked up the chicken hearts and gizzards and grabbed the beef liver. I figured I have enough hearts to make a second batch tomorrow since I'm going to be swinging by my friend's house and there is two major stores that I think might sell them. SuperStore and No Frills. The other major stores not on the way to his house are on the way home from my other cleaning jobs. So, before the weeks end I WILL have chicken liver. But for today I'll try the beef/chicken combo. I'm so glad organs are cheap.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 15:59:25 GMT -5
So we some success today. Earlier I blended up the soup mix subbing beef liver for chicken, tossed some in the fridge tossed the rest in the freezer went about my day. At 1:30 I took away all the kibble I could find and Sev went to bed. At 4:15 I woke him up with snuggles, kisses, and soupie mix. His initial response was positive and he happily licked it off my finger with no coaxing. After the fourth time licking my finger clean he became disgruntled and wanted to run off. I gently scruffed him and sat him back down in my lap and continued to offer him my finger to lick clean. He would have periods of being interested in what I was offering and wanting nothing to do with it. I stopped when he seemed to have enough of the whole ordeal. He was shivering a lot during the whole thing, normally he only shivers when first waking up. His body temp was normal, eyes bright and alert, gums normal looking.
1. Ferret's name: Severus 2. Ferret's weight: 44.43 - 44.45 oz 3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal: 1 tsp of soupie mix, 2 tbs of kibble (fed 2 hours later) 4. Stools on various proteins: Normal as of last BM 5. Activity levels: Normal as compared to last week 6. Weekly menu: Soupie mix (8oz chicken, 2 chicken hearts, 2oz beef liver, 1/2 tsp of eggshell powder) and Zupreem Grain free kibble (Supplements: Ferretone, Ferretlax)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 21:34:49 GMT -5
So his last BM was slightly mucousy/runny and a little seedy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 9:51:28 GMT -5
Usually, its chicken hearts that are so hard to find. I'm surprised that you are having such a tough time finding Liver.
You normally don't want to mix proteins, in this case though, since you are using chicken and are aware that there is a second protein, its fine to use the beef liver for a few days, until you can get chicken liver.
The organs in the soupie will make Severus's poops loose. While you are switching, and he is detoxing from kibble, you will see some funky poops. You can add a little more eggshell powder and firm up his stools. Gradually increase the eggshell powder until it looks nice and firm to you. It won't look quite the same as when he begins eating bone, but it will firm up some.
I'm not sure why he was shivering, is he usually awake at 4:15? Maybe he was sleepy or just nervous about the whole change in routine. He seems like he did well and it was smart to stop, when he seemed to have enough. You don't want him associating his new soupie with a tiring and unpleasant experience.
You did well, with your first experience. Nice Job! :thumbsup:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 19:58:50 GMT -5
We just ate half a teaspoon of raw, no coaxing needed. I will offer him more in another hour. I don't want to push him to eat it, but I want to phase out kibble as soon as he is willing. I will continue to offer him some ever hour to every two hours until I'm ready to pass out. Tomorrow is canada day so we're celebrating it tonight in my house, so I expect to be up and capable all night tonight. His current energy levels are fantastic though last night they seemed a bit low. He might of been more willing to run around if I hadn't been feeling so crappy (migrainy headaches are lame and stupid). Wednesday I'm going to feed him in the morning before I leave. I'll be gone for roughly seven hours. Would a teaspoon to a tablespoon of raw soupie be enough to tide him over until I get home or should I ask my husband to feed him around noon? I'd be home no later than 4 and I would be feeding him breakfast around 8:20 - 8:40 in the morning before I left. Also we need to learn how to be less messy cause we're terrible at not getting the raw mix all over us. Halp us pls, lol.
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