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Post by fretki on Mar 11, 2014 5:19:43 GMT -5
Yes, that's part of the frankenprey theory: get as close as possible to whole prey by assembling parts, because whole prey is what polecats would naturally eat ...and polecats are luckily the generalists within the mustelid family, so you can feed a wide variety of meats, it's healthy for them (it would be harder to keep up with a healthy diet for other mustelids like the least weasel, they eat almost exclusively a certain kind of mice...) same for me, I gladly look for new stuff for my ferrets, but I'm very happy I don't have to eat it myself the weekly menu looks good, again, if all the meals are equal amounts and if you feed 2x a day you're rather on the lower side of hearts and organs. if the meal sizes vary it is hard to guess, best would be to have the amounts as well we could do a preview for the weekly menu and a review after feeding with amounts? I'm curious if they start bone, be persistend, I know you will make this work!
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Post by fretki on Mar 11, 2014 5:21:50 GMT -5
p.s. forgot the soupie part, yes please reduce to a minimum, you can keep soupie as a treat or 1 meal per week... it is good if they are still used to it in case of sickness
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 10:23:26 GMT -5
we had a time change here and I am not sure but I think that since the days are longer now, they are trying to slack off on their eating. They are still very active but I have noticed that they are leaving a little bit of the food whereas before, they would clean the plate . I have been trying to do the heart and liver less since the last couple weeks they got so much of it. I was thinking that I read on here somewhere they needed and ounce of liver/organ a week per ferret? Is that right? and also an ounce per ferret of heart. It might be that I got that from the soup recipe. I just remember seeing an ounce somewhere.... If it should be more then I could swap out and do 2 meals a week of those. We're still not seeing any excitement over bone so I sprinkled their food with egg shell powder since they haven't had soup in about 5 days. I was thinking about using soup on the weekends like maybe Saturdays. That way they still get it once a week and that is usually our busiest day around here so it might be a win/win. I do a lot of 5 and 10K races and it usually involves getting up early on Saturday mornings and driving to the location =) Which is an accomplishment of itself bc I am NOT a morning person I am going to be persistent and offer them bone on a daily basis! Maybe they will finally decide that it is good! Did you get your 2 new babies yet? Were you able to not fuss at their old owner? =)
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Post by fretki on Mar 11, 2014 13:39:47 GMT -5
actually of the total of what they eat per week; they need approximately 10% organ (5% liver, 5% other organ(s)) and 10% heart, this is more or less 1.5 meals each per week (based on 14 meals), and the 1-2 ounce is a common meal size; especially in summer it reflects very well an average ferret meal, so it is indeed a good starting point: holisticferret60.proboards.com/post/293/threadif you look on how much your ferrets are eating per meal, it fits for Bonnie and Daisy, it is rather short for Fred and Clyde yes, I think it's a good idea to keep a day or a meal on soup or ground meat, sounds like a good plan for Saturdays. wow, you're very sporty! keep me in the loop for the bone feeding, and don't hesitate if you need encouragement! I'll also have a funny switching adventure in front of me, the two little disasters arrived, I posted pictures here: holisticferret60.proboards.com/post/202304/threadyes, I really have been very polite to their old owner, but it wasn't an easytask, I really have a hard time to understand how you can neglect the health of your ferrets in this way...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 20:51:18 GMT -5
I got ya! I will add more heart and liver =) Wow, this balancing thing is hard at first but I'm sure that I will get the hang of it and it'll seem like a breeze. I cannot believe the pics of those poor babies! You are better than me bc I would've been crying my eyes out and yelling when I saw them. Shame on that owner Okay, I have great news!!!!!!!!! :boing: I decided to buy a whole chicken(but dead and no feathers) and butcher it myself so that I could have all the pieces I wanted and it was cheaper that way. I was able to get the wing tips and I rubbed them with olive oil aaaannnnddddd Daisy ate half of one and Bonnie ate about 1/3 of one! YAY!!! Fred has been being very picky lately but I think that a fresh chicken was just what he wanted bc when I gave him the ribs with some meat, he took off with them =) Clyde is still not sure but he did put a rib bone in his mouth and then it was like he didn't know what to do with it. He kept going back and sniffing it and licking at it so I think that he might be getting ready to try
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Post by fretki on Mar 12, 2014 3:56:30 GMT -5
it becomes easier with ferrets who are used to raw, when you no longer have to worry about what they eat and if the eat, then it's more relaxed to take time for balancing the menu those are fantastic news!!! hahaha, I love the look when they really have no clue what to do with bone in meat, when they look at you like "mommy, why did you put toothpicks in my meat?" I hope Clyde will look at the others munching bones and he'll get the hint that it might be edible and congrats great idea to get a whole chicken! it takes more preparation time but there is always a bone for each taste :thumbsup: :goodjob: :thumbsup: well, as hard as it sounds, I guess I get used to surrenders like this, most of my ferrets came in similar shape, and it's a waste of time to be mad at the old owner and it's a waste of time to head reproaches on them, this won't change the situation... the only thing which counts is to get them back to their immanent splendor and offer them a happy and healthy life for the time they have left
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 9:49:23 GMT -5
what do you do for a ferret that is almost bald? Will it ever grow back? I have seen a lot of people talking about the implants and since I know that all 4 of mine are Marshall's ferrets then I know at some point they will probably become adrenal and possibly even have insulinoma. Is it best when they reach a certain age to get them implants before they show any signs of disease? I wish I could've taken a picture of Clyde's face =) It was priceless! This morning, I tried again and once again Daisy was interested and Bonnie nibbled some but Clyde still thinks the meat might've gone bad! LOL =) He did lick the marrow however and thought it was yummy so I feel certain that we can get him to try some very soon. You were right about just offering everyday and being patient. Again, I cannot tell you how thankful I am for all your advice bc they have come a long way in the short time you have been my mentor!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2014 9:52:05 GMT -5
I have also noticed that since they are eating more solid food now and a variation of proteins, they are awake for much longer periods of time in the morning and at night. Even around the middle of the afternoon they will take up and stretch and do a perimeter check for a bit =) It is such a huge difference than when they were on kibble only or even just soup!
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Post by fretki on Mar 12, 2014 14:16:46 GMT -5
most of those severe hair loss cases are related to adrenal issues, and I made very good experience using both implants (deslorelin/suprelorin and melatonin) to get all the fur back! unfortunately both implants are no cure, they can only slow down the course of disease... but in my experience they can slow it down to a point of an normal life span for the ferret and most important to me: a good quality of life! you could do surgery as well, but I only take this path if the ferret has to undergo surgery anyway for other reasons... and I implant at the slightest suspicion, I have a very cooperative vet, who is anyway convinced that the implant is beneficial with advancing age. the cost is also a factor to think of, I have 4 ferrets implanted with both implants: the deslorelin/suprelorin has to be renewed every 6-12 months, the melatonin every 4 months; in total I spend more than 1000.- (and we seem to have lower prices than you have in the U.S.) per year only for their implants Thank you, I really appreciate your kind words, it's a great motivation for me to continue doing this voluntary work as a mentor And I gladly return the compliment: it is all your merit! you are doing a great job by persistently working on this switch!
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Post by fretki on Mar 12, 2014 14:28:06 GMT -5
Yes, the energy levels on kibble or raw are uncomparable, I see it now again with my two new ones: after an hour of play they need to sleep 12 hours, they eat a crazy amount of kibble and the two poop almost as much as my 8 on raw To me the most impressive is the performance when we reach high temperatures in summer (we don't have ac, because we only have a few peaks of high temperatures in summer), they tolerate it much better than kibble fed ferrets!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 15:53:42 GMT -5
okay, my order finally came in! Last night was hearts and since the turkey hearts were thawed, I offered them. They were not impressed =( I think I will use the turkey hearts in the soup every week til they are gone and feed them the chicken and duck hearts on the plate(IF they even like the duck hearts) I also ordered some more duck liver which was a big hit with them before... I ended up having to swap meals around bc I didn't have any chicken hearts thawed out so they got a bone in meal instead and I am happy to say that while they did not consume large amounts, Bonnie and Daisy nibbled. Fred is approving of the smashed up bones so I am going to continue with them for a bit.
Now, about summer weight vs winter weight. I keep a very close eye on little Daisy bc she is so petite. I weigh her almost everyday bc I am afraid she might be too skinny. She was dropped at my house at about 4 months old and she has always been little but I just worry about her. She's still the same with no loss but what about summer? Will they all lose a bit bc they eat less when it gets hot and if so, how much is healthy? Since the time change I can already see a difference in their eating and I wondered if it their intake would drop drastically or just by maybe an ounce?
Sorry for all the questions but I just want to be ready for any changes and be able to recognize if they are normal or require more investigation.
Also, how are your new babies doing? Have you found out anyting about the males tumor?
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Post by fretki on Mar 13, 2014 17:24:24 GMT -5
sorry just a short answer for this evening: ts ts ts!! don't give up with the turkey hearts so fast! try to cut chicken and turkey hearts in similar size pieces, mix and offer... or use a little oil? or slivers in soup? I'm convinced they will get used to them oh, weight drop for summer can be impressive, sometimes up to 30% of their winter body weight! I have also two really small females, and I think like you, if something is wrong with the weight drop, it has to be caught early, they are so tiny! at least I know the summer weight of my girls from the last summer, this can be reassuring, and my girls loose about 20% of their body weight... Normally they start to eat less in spring, sometimes they even skip meals... important to me: after coat change they have to look healthy and they have to act more active than in winter... I take pictures every season at least and keep track of their weight, this is a good way to compare and recognize if something is wrong. thank you for asking: I'm at the vet tomorrow morning, so I should be able to tell a bit more tomorrow.
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Post by fretki on Mar 14, 2014 5:02:50 GMT -5
Ah, I forgot: My ferrets eat in summer about half of what they eat in winter, but I also try my best to make them feel the seasons, so no heating in winter, most of the time their window is just a crack open (I modified the hopper window to just open a little bit), I have a heavy curtain on their door, so on the one hand it will not cool my whole appartment and on the other hand they don't get much of the articifial lightening, their room is bodering my living room, and in winter I need artificial light when I'm home... and for the fact that they are already seniors, they all do their seasonal weight fluctuation, which is actually a sign of health the transition phases from stable winter intake to stable summer intake can sometimes be a bit tricky, and starting winter preparations is easier, because they will eat more and this is pretty simple to handle, if they ate all and still act hungry and beg for food they need more, but summer preparation can be a bit jolty, depending on the weather, they may gradually eat less, as they may fast abruptly (but still stash all the food, grrr!!), and restart to eat like crazy a few days later... you never know mixed news from my vet: first the good news for Shana, we got the lab results back, the two masses were benign tumors, good that they were removed you never know if they may degenerate later... regarding Spam, the male (I always keep the names given by the old owners) my vet will perform surgery and dental work this morning, there is a slight chance that the tumor is producing female hormones, causing estrogen toxicity and irreversible aplastic anemia, so in the worst case he won't live long after removal and I have to be prepared that we will have to put him to sleep if the lab results are pointing in this direction. sigh! so I really hope he has a different type of cancer
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2014 16:51:35 GMT -5
aww, mixed blessings from the vet. At least if he is headed that direction, you are kind enough to painlessly end his suffering and that's more than he would've had before you took him in. But I will be praying that he has a different cancer!
I try to keep my fur kids on the same cycle as the seasons too. I have them in the sunroom where they can get as much natural light as possible and moonlight at night. They have the back of the house as theirs too. But I do sometimes worry about our heat though bc we can have temps as high as 100F and we have very high humidity here as well.
I am keeping an eye on all the babies and so far the couple days that they didn't eat seems like a phase. Tonight we try rabbit!!!!! I am so excited to see how they react. I'm still going to try the duck hearts and see how that works with a little oil. I am trying to cut back on the oil bc I don't want them to get too much.
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Post by fretki on Mar 15, 2014 2:16:29 GMT -5
Yay! Surgery went well, Spam came home very sleepy, so I was a little worried, but this morning when I went to give him his post-op meds, he poped his head out of his bed instantly My vet said that he should arleady have died at the office if it would have been such a cancer, so I guess we passed the worst part!! We also have a few peaks of 100F, I always have plastic bottles filled with water in my freezer, I use them as cooling packs. In summer I put them next to their bed and I build "cooling dens": you need a 4-6 large frozen water bottles, 1 big cardbox, 1 smaller card box the size for your ferrets bedding and the ferrets, a piece of plastic tube. Put the smaller box into the bigger box, in the gap between the boxes you put the frozen bottles and you cut a whole to stick the plastic tube in, as entry to the smaller box. How went the rabbit?
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