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Post by fretki on Mar 7, 2014 13:57:09 GMT -5
Thank you for the photos! They all look good  Does Bonnie have slightly longer hair than the other 3? Oh yes, some ferrets go nuts for food/meats with "body temperature", you can try to gently warm food, this also sets more flavor free, add a little bit of oil and you'll have delighted ferrets  Best is to offer different bone in meats in the long run, so try smashed chicken and smashed rabbit as well. I would cut back soup to 1-2x a week and weigh the meals they get and see if they need more or less? Keep the same ratio of eggshell powder on the meat in pieces as for soup, if I remember correctly it is 1/2 tsp of eggshell powder for 10oz of meat. Yes another organ besides liver is part of a balanced diet, so it will be necessary to work on that as well... there should be other organs in ground meat? And in the really worst case there are supplements you could use, but they seem to be at least a tiny little bit interested in kidney and lung, so I don't see why starting a supplement And please don't worry, you have plenty of time to get to the full balanced menu before there is any nutritional deficiency showing up. Cool, so you really have a great vet! And you chose a smart way to switch your ferrets, HFF is really a good place! My vet was very sceptic, but with time he had to acknowledge that I really try to inform myself as good as possible and that my ferrets are very healthy for their age and background. And whenever I get a new old ferret surrendered I take them immediately for a check-up and again a few months later and he's always very positive about their change  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 15:20:49 GMT -5
I was going to replace Fred's chicken leg but he immediately stashed it  I guess that was his was of telling me he wasn't done with it yet! Haha! I did go ahead and add some liver and blood to the kidney since they still hadn't eaten their normal amounts and when I checked back, the blood and liver were gone but a few little pieces of the kidney were too. They are so stubborn =) How long can you let them have food that's been sitting out? When I touched the chicken leg, it was still cool to the touch. With it getting cooler at night, their room probably keeps the food cool longer. On very cold nights I run the heat in their room but since it's almost spring, I figured they would enjoy it not being so warm. I figured that with them being on the raw, they are getting way more nutritional value from their foods than with kibble so I was hoping that meant I had a little more time to get them balanced out. Sometimes bc I have been recording every day and it seems longer, I forget that I have only been trying to get them swapped to raw for 2 months =) To have 4 very different temperaments and degrees of stubbornness, I think we are moving in the right direction. And to answer your question about Bonnie...she does seem to have the fluffiest coat of all of them but this didn't happen until a month after we started raw. Her tail used to be thin and she has always been soft but now she feels like a cloud to touch her fur! Let me see if I can find an old pic of her coat from around Christmas maybe... This is Bonnie on the left in January and the one on the right 2 weeks ago(she is on the green mat)  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2014 15:22:28 GMT -5
You would almost not even know it was her! Her coat changed from dark to light and got super fluffy =)
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Post by fretki on Mar 8, 2014 4:21:50 GMT -5
Wow! Bonnie changed a lot! I guess a part of it is also a very fluffy winter coat? You'll have fun when they change coat to summer look. Those 2x a year I brush my ferrets, if not my appartment would drown in hair, they have so much more beautiful hair  Hum, depending on temperature and size of the meat pieces, I'd say around 12 hours, with cold temperatures sometimes even up to 24 hours, when it's really hot than certainly less. Small pieces don't stay fresh as long as large pieces. If it get's really cold in their room, they need a hut and some warm blankies, then you don't have to worry about heating the room, they handle cold very well! It's healthy for them to feel the seasonal changes by temperature and daylight. I have an isolated sleeping hut on my balcony, they love to have a nap in there when it's freezing cold outside. If I remember it correctly, it is now the second week they eat liver and heart without much coaxing, now they start kidney and lung, that's fine! Now there is working on bones left (dance) And the rest is balancing the menu |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 10:09:09 GMT -5
In their room I have a filing cabinet that is full of blankets and they climb up all the drawers and sleep on all the levels =) I am going to go to the store and buy some small chicken wings and see if the girls will try them. Do you have any hints about getting them started besides the smashing up of the bones?
I did find a few pieces of kidney hidden in their room but for the most part, I think they ate the majority. I am going to offer some today too and just see how they feel =)
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Post by fretki on Mar 8, 2014 13:53:30 GMT -5
Well, if they are perfectly healthy you may try to let them become really hungry before offering the chicken wings, but personally I only do this if they really show no interest at all after several attempts (and you have to be sure that there are no hidden health issues)... and for the really stubborn ones you can go the "no mercy" way and keep offering the food they don't like 3 days in a row, I rarely do that, I personally like more creative approaches, trying different other ways before, for example: - attach the smashed chicken wing in their feeding den / favorite eating spot - cut the smashed chicken wing in small pieces, offer with a bit of oil - don't smash the wings, cut in to 3 sections (at the two joints), seperate the bones of the middle section, do several cuts per section trough the skin; so they smell that there is meat underneath, serve the 4 pieces. (as a variation you can try a smashed version, or let is soak in soup before serving) I found it easiest to make them eat ribs first: chicken, quail or rabbit ribs break easily, the moment they realize "bone is also food", the major part of the work on bone is done |
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Post by fretki on Mar 8, 2014 14:07:49 GMT -5
I guess if they have a place full of blankets they are perfectly equipped for low temperatures... As long as the water bowl don't freeze it is still in their comfort zone A friend of mine has his ferrets in a mixed enclosure, they choose freely if they want to be inside or outside. One winter he called me cause he belived that one of his ferrets had escaped, he finally found him sleeping in a hammock sleeping under a thick layer of fresh-fallen snow, seems to be cozy to take a nap under the snow! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2014 21:23:26 GMT -5
thanks! these are great suggestions =) I will try the cutting up first. Also, next time I go to the store I will buy breast meat with the ribs still attached and see how that goes!
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Post by fretki on Mar 9, 2014 9:06:46 GMT -5
keep me posted, I'm curious how your bone trials will go! fingers crossed!! and from tomorrow on, I'm back in the switching boat as well, I'll get 2 6year old ferrets to switch, they were on a diet of kibble, canned sardines and raisins as treats... I will do my best to be as polite as possible to the former owner (and grind my teeth secretly, hahaha) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 14:12:35 GMT -5
OH MY LORD!!!!! What would possess someone to feed raisins to a ferret??!!! Even before my switch I knew they needed a certain amount of protein and as little carbs as possible in the kibble but NEVER fruits! Yes, it would be hard for me to be kind to them too. Plus, sardines? C'mon! Well, I guess we'll be in the switching boat together =) Those babies are going to be so happy when you get them  I do have some progress to report! Not only are they taking liver and hearts without any oil or soup on them but they have started eating chicken pieces(big, small, and sliver mixed together) off of the plate without any oil or soup! And I offered them some pork loin with only the scent of oil on the plate and they ate some of that too =) The bone thing didn't go over so well but I will keep trying. I can say that Fred must have been rationing himself on the bone bc I offered him some thin sliced ribs and over the course of yesterday he finished it off! I found one tiny piece of bone left where he had stashed his food. They are starting to realize that they should try the things mommy puts out bc I might just know what I'm doing |
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Post by fretki on Mar 9, 2014 15:01:09 GMT -5
Yes, I'm a bit nervous and looking with mixed feelings to this appointment tomorrow, they seem to have some health issues as well, but I guess best will be to not bother too much now (I'm not good in that) How much liver and hearts are you feeding now? How much of the total of their food is it currently? I saw your thread about "too much taurine", so I thought I could give you my answer here: Yes, if you feed too much heart and organs over a certain period of time you risk overdosing in liposoluble vitamins (A, E, D, K) and bioaccumulation of harmful substances happens normally first in liver and kidney (of the prey animal and afterwards in liver and kidney of the predator=ferret), thus feeding too much of those organs may stress the ferret's organism extra (besides the vitamins). For a short period of time you can exceed the recommended amounts/percentages, but best is to adapt to the 10% rule that's why it is so important to know how much they eat! (it is hard to feed 10% of an unknown amount...) great, you can really be proud of yourself: they all eat now different sizes of meat, they eat heart, liver, a bit of lung, a bit of kidney! they eat different proteins!! ...and all within a bit more than 3 weeks (and you were even gone for a few days)!!! (dance) regarding bone: keep offering in one way, be patient, keep offering in another way, be patient, keep offering  oh yeah, they will learn to observe you very well, so they don't miss a meaty goodie, and they will do their best trying to manipulate you and look at you with those big sad eyes saying "mommy, I want something else, pleeeeease"  p.s. sorry, had to edit several times, found too many mistakes in writing, hope it is comprehensible now, if not please let me know! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 19:52:23 GMT -5
I got in a mess when I was gone bc mama was feeding the and she didn't know about the weights and stuff. She didn't weigh the food she was giving them so I am not sure how much they ate but I do know that this week coming up will be different bc I will be keeping a strict adherence to the menu. My theory is they will not starve and now that they have shown me they will eat certain things then I know it is mostly them being stubborn if it doesn't get eaten.
I guess I could've asked you about the taurine but sometimes I worry that I am bombarding you with posts all day and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed =) This week and last week have not been typical bc they did get more liver and heart than usual. I hope that my order comes in this week and that they get to try some new things. I am kinda limited here and depend on my orders for the different proteins. Quick question speaking of different proteins...what about frog legs? And my store has chicken feet...do they hold any nutritional value? I have their menu worked out for the week and I'll be posting that shortly. But if I do get my order I might replace some of the meats.
I just ordered 3lbs of rabbit pieces and they didn't say what that meant exactly =)
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Post by fretki on Mar 10, 2014 6:31:36 GMT -5
no worry, I just tease you, I guess you certainly understood that the proper ratios are important for the health of your ferrets, I guess that's also a reason for making this thread that's why I mentioned it and a second no worry: I am here for questions of all kind! I know that I'm not all knowing and some questions might need a bit of reply time, and I know that I still owe you an answer regarding processed food (it's still on my to-do list). It's a good idea to ask for different opinions, raw feeding is not an exact science, there are many different styles, and asking is a good possibility to get to know different standpoints. And if you find good points on the forum (or internet) or things you want to keep in mind for feeding feel free to copy and paste it here... oh, my ferrets love frogs legs, it's an amphibian so a different composition of amino acids in their protein, I don't use it a lot (mainly because of ethical reasons, if you would ask my ferrets they would love to eat them daily, hahaha!) chicken feet are good for jaw strength, really heavy to chew! from a nutritional standpoint both are a good addition to their diet! Think of the term frankenprey: get as many different animal parts as possible to assemble franken-prey |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 7:06:27 GMT -5
I gotcha! So, everything is good for them since all the parts will equal a whole. I wonder if I can get pig brains somewhere? My granddaddy used to eat scrambled eggs and pig brains for breakfast!  I am so glad that we don't have to go on the raw diet with our babies bc I would not survive! LOL! okay, here's the menu: Mon: breast with rib bones thin sliced ribs Tue: chicken thigh with bone pork loin Wed: breast with rib bones hearts Thurs: chicken wing chicken wing Fri: breast with rib bones pork loin Sat: thigh with bone pork loin Sun: chicken wing liver/kidney I forgot to put a.m and p.m. but that's what they are =) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 7:19:52 GMT -5
1. Ferret's name: Fred
2. Ferret's weight: 3lbs 6oz
3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. around 1.5 oz
4. Stools on various proteins: stools are good but no new proteins introduced
5. Activity levels: very active!
1. Ferret's name: Clyde
2. Ferret's weight: 3lbs 8oz
3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1.5oz per meal
4. Stools on various proteins: no new proteins, stools are normal
5. Activity levels: his activity level is increasing! He even took down Fred today when they played
1. Ferret's name: Bonnie
2. Ferret's weight: 2Lbs 1oz
3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1oz per meal
4. Stools on various proteins: stools are normal
5. Activity levels: levels are the same, normal amount of activity
1. Ferret's name: Daisy
2. Ferret's weight: 1Lb 10 oz
3. Ferret has eaten "X" amount on average per meal. 1oz per meal
4. Stools on various proteins: stools are normal
5. Activity levels: she is becoming increasingly active =)
I am going to try and keep them as close to Fred's menu plan as possible. I will keep offering them bone and see how that goes. They haven't had soupie in a few days now and I will try and keep that going if you think I need to wean them off altogether. Other than that, if there's anything I forgot, just let me know =)
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