Post by miamiferret2 on May 6, 2013 11:57:51 GMT -5
and if they refuse, just dab the organ/heart mush on their nose. worse comes to worse you can just make a new batch of raw mush with whatever you ground up. so it won't go to waste. but practice with it. maybe Hermes will like it. i fully expect Merlin to turn his nose up at it. LOL
Wow. That is so very interesting. Just hope I don't get salmonella HA! Glad too, that messing with meat doesn't bother me. My grandgirls and others cringe at me touching it. Doesn't bother me at all. I just clean up with bleachy water (not where the ferrets eat, just the counter and utensils).
Thanks for the encouragement! (giggle) If I get into something, I really get into it, study it, research it (that's what happened with law 40+ years ago!) I think feeding raw is extremely interesting because it returns them to their origins, as it should be. Eating meat, not grains, crap, and leather boots!! Once I ventured down this road, it was forever and I plan on being the best I can. I didn't bother much with Spencer and Priscilla because Spencer was so sick for so long.
I was telling Dr. Hart (their vet) about feeding raw on Friday, and he was impressed that I already learned so much. He is very positive about the whole raw thing for pets. He loves the guys and was so glad to meet them, he's the only vet I've ever had for any of my kids. He even got on the floor and played with them for about 20 minutes. He likes to bond with his patients...especially ferrets! They took very quickly to him even after distemper shots
I took some Fezant Dream Treats for them, and he fed it to them. He was just freaked that it was freeze dried, very impressed. He says he's learned so much from me about ferrets (I can't take the credit, I learned everything I know from others), and he asked what kind of prophylaxis I want to do for them. I told him deslorelin implants for both. He is in agreement, so, unless you have any precautions for me, we will do that. I also heartily recommend any ferret owners living where there are raccoons get their babies vaccinated for rabies. I just won't take any chances.
Ok. Back to the matters at hand. I try and make sure that they both eat the heart and liver pieces, even feeding them to them by hand if they don't eat them all, but, they seem to like them well enough. And, while I'm at it, a liver consists of two pieces, and that it what you are referring to when you say "one liver", is that correct?
Now, here's what I do while I mince up the meat (by hand I might add). I cut the bones out first, and take excess skin from the chicken, and while I'm cutting, I cook the bones and skin in water only. Then I throw the bones to the possums, and cool the broth. Then pour it over the meats as I serve them, refrigerating the rest for the next meals. I can only make about 5 packages (liver, heart, 4 oz chicken) for meals cuz my freezer is small. Then, I make the chunky soup, and freeze in ice cube trays, pop in a freezer bag so I have a few days of both meals. Then start over. Again, the liquid in the soup is the broth I make from the bones, skin.
Reporting that Merlin ate only slivers (mince) this morning, and ate about 2 oz!! Hermes (the meat eater) ate about 3 oz. They both had S&C Chicken Dinner in the cage....What amount of S&C wafers should have during the day? I usually give them 1.5 or so, broken into small pieces.
At vet visit Friday, Hermes weight 2.8 lbs. My initial weight was 3.24lbs. The vet tech said that he easily could be heavier, and that he was very fidgity on the scale (same problem I had). So, his exact weight is unknown, but I will go by 2.8lbs.
Merlin's weight was spot on with mine, 2.4lbs.
I froze the whole goat milk in ice cube trays. I popped one in their bowls this morning and Hermes loved it. Merlin, not so much. He preferred to try and swim in it, putting both paws into the bowl, and then putting his entire head into the small bowl. It was a riot. He'd lick, but that was it.
Neither boy ate more than a bite or two of raw this morning, preferring to run, jump and play, steal mommy's shoes and rastle! When it was cage time, they both scarfed down about 3/4 of a Stella & Chewys Duck Duck Goose wafer.
Resting the spoon in Merlin's bowl is working well, instead of me holding him and feeding him. I continue to praise him as he eats from the spoon (and surrounding areas), but I'm not holding him any more. (dance)
Post by miamiferret2 on May 7, 2013 13:17:25 GMT -5
i give goats milk as a special treat like once a week (when i remember). sonny can kind of get to be a lard butt so I same with the quail eggs.
if they have days when they do not eat alot of their raw mush, just put it in their cage (left overs)
if you only feel comfortable leaving the dry freeze dried in their cage, then I would just rip up several stella * chewys patties and put in their bowls so that they always have it accessible to them in between meals.
I use the lamb and beef for sonny in his bowl. those are tougher and more chewy than the poultry ones and better to clean teeth and gums. the poultry ones kind of just fall apart. but he eats very little of the freeze dried. literally 2 patties will last about 2.5 weeks in his bowl.
Thanks for the info on freeze dried. The boys like that as well as raw, and they look forward to going to bed to get it! I've gone through 2 of the small bags since about 4/25! They had chicken and duck, now we're on lamb. I didn't realize I could give them beef too. I'll grab a bag to keep on hand.
I was amazed to see Merlin eating on his own, without prompting from his own bowl!! I get their breakfast (raw) ready, get my coffee (ahh), then let the monsters out of their cage. They usually want to play, but this morning Merlin headed straight for the bowl and chowed down!! Pic on FB. I was sooo happy!! Hermes (the raw boy), barely ate his.
He got in the shower with me!! OMG!! What a shock to see him flop into the tub!! HA! The guy loved it! I moved aside to let the water pour on him, hoping he'd get out. Nope! When "we" got out, he went nuts, like a gator, flippin' here and there, death rolling on the rug, they are so much fun!!
Thanks for all your help. I kinda feel this morning was a big breakthrough for Merlin. His food was just a tiny bit of chunky soup, and lots of chicken, heart, and liver. He did it all by himself!! (dance)
The boys are eating lots. Not so much raw at once, they like to come back from time to time while they are out (2.5 hours) and pick at it. Hermes still eats most of his food, leaving maybe 1/2 tsp. Merlin is doing so much better, but I have to leave the spoon in the bowl to get him going. He really wants me to feed him, but I'm resisting, just holding the spoon while in the bowl on the floor. Then I walk away and he eats. Sometimes he'll just go right to the bowl and eat. Other times I have to coax him. Eh, Boys!!
Post by miamiferret2 on May 11, 2013 6:56:21 GMT -5
Haha. He is manipulating you. Did you try sneaking in a different protein? I know you mentioned they like the lamb. That is great. What size are the slivers right now? Do you see them actually chewing on them? So is merlin on all raw now and no gruel? Sorry for 20 questions. And if you responded to any of that previously I apologize but I am on my cell phone & hard to scroll thru posts.
Ugh. Sorry, was only in the office for about 20 minutes, to doc, then to the sofa. Near pneumonia, and on the nebulizer every 4 hours (or more often if I can), and so I missed answering. I understand the phone, that's all I have at home
Merlin hasn't been on gruel for almost 2 weeks now. He's all raw, when he will eat it. I still have to resort to the spoon momentarily to get him to start eating, then he takes over and does pretty well. In my opinion, they are not eating enough. I would say I give them 3 oz for each meal, they will eat 1.5 with coaxing. If I gave them more, they's waste more. As it is, they leave it and what they leave they won't eat again (new trick).
I 'fridge it, and the next meal, they won't eat it. So, it eventually goes down the commode. Hermes has dropped back on his eating, and like you said, he's eating less. Merlin is sporadic and eats when he wants to.
I am out of lamb duck and chicken Stella and Chewy's. They HATE beef Stella & Chewy's. In fact, Merlin throws a fit around 2am standing tall, clawing the heck out of the cage. When I drag out of bed, he runs to the bowl, like HEY!! what is this junk in my bowl!! I want Lambiez or Duck Duck Goose. Neither boy will eat it. Just a waste of money.
I bought Natures Instinct Duck, and they hate it. Can't rub it on their gums enough, or put it in their mouth. It comes right back out. After it's in the bowl for awhile, forget it. The little primadonas! I've created spoiled monsters.
I bought some fresh lamb (I wanted it!), and they seem to enjoy it pretty well. They have been eating beef heart all along because I can't find chicken hearts anywhere, so, if that counts, they like that form of beef.
If it's frozen raw that's thawed, forget it. They want fresh (who doesn't!). They give me these funky little looks, like, you just wait til you can't find your lipstick, or the OTHER shoe you want to wear, or, worst of all, the cool hair catcher for the bathtub drain. You will pay!! Hermes heads for the tub the minute he's free of the cage, and dives in, water or not. Merlin is learning!
I'll try to weigh them tonight and post their weights. No doubt they will be leaner, they just aren't eating enough IMO!!
Post by miamiferret2 on May 14, 2013 20:29:21 GMT -5
yeah get a weight on them. the thing is that raw fed ferrets do eat less than kibble fed ferrets to. they only really eat like 2 x a day. boys can eat 3 oz to 6 oz a day. depends on their size and time of year. summer is almost here. they eat less during summer. also, they are eating freeze dried raw which you are leaving in their cage right? that you have to factor in as well. do they look or feel thinner ?
with the frozen raw sometimes it takes a little coaxing but they will eat it. little brats always prefer fresh raw meat. that is how sonny is. and if it sits out for more than a few hours forget it, he doesn't like it.
Post by miamiferret2 on May 14, 2013 20:36:33 GMT -5
if you think they have worked up their jaw strength by eating slivers, then see if they will chew on some bone. get some chicken wings tips and give to them. you can even coat them in whatever oil they like. feed those in the cage though (if you have one) or feed them in the tub. they may just try to carry them off and stash them. if you get them crunching away at the wing tips, then move onto a whole wing. smash up a chicken wings (beat the bones with a hammer and break them up) then cut up into little chunks or big slivers that are the same size as what you have been feeding. it helps to put the wings in a zip lock bag and cover with a towel. then beat it with a mallet or something to break bones . otherwise you will get chicken meat all over.
Post by miamiferret2 on May 14, 2013 20:39:19 GMT -5
I'm glad they like lamb! so they don't like beef but they are eating beef heart. most ferrets are not too fond of beef. it is very rich. only beef sonny really likes is freeze dried from s & c. other proteins we can use are turkey, pork, quail, cornish game hen, goat, duck (hopefully they will grow to like the NV duck)
buy some chicken necks while you are at the store next time. also chicken feet if you can find them.
Post by miamiferret2 on May 14, 2013 20:41:19 GMT -5
the minimum that we should have in rotation is 3 proteins. the more the better but 3 is minimum. 1 can be chicken, the 2nd can be lamb, #3 can be duck, cornish game hen, goat, rabbit, etc. but definitely the more the better. different meats have different % of vitamins and minerals. you want the diet to be well rounded. btw, you would never get these results with kibbles. they typically only use "chicken" and then they cook the crap out of it and add synthetic vitamins.
I so appreciate your wisdom and knowledge about raw. It just makes so much sense when you think about it. And to think that at the very beginning way back with Gizmo, I was feeding him Fiesta!! OMG, of course, that only lasted a month or so, but STILL!! I'm gonna give Patti (Lil Rascals Rescue where I got the boys) the rest of the Wysong. I still have about 12 lbs. all unopened. I've got so much, and we will NEVER go back!!
I really enjoy fixing their meats, and usually they will hang out in the kitchen while I'm cutting. I give them pieces as I cut, so it's really cool. Brats? Oh, Yes! If it sits out, or even with 'fridged, they still pick at it like it's rotten. Again, I dribble a little olive oil on it, and they lap it up until the oil is gone!!
Yes! They ARE chewing with their molars, on the side of their mouth, I see it, so I'll do some wings. I'm excited!!
They had goat milk "frosties" (cubes) last night. As usual, Merlin wasn't fast enough and Hermes ate them both. He's such a hog. I try to feed them the goodies separately so Merlin gets enough, but he's slow and deliberate. Hermes wants to play and run like the wind, he's my whirling dervish! He rarely slows down, and then, it's to eat or crash. (twitch) Although, Merlin who is a little smaller, will jump Hermes and do the chew and twist routine. They are a hoot. And seem healthy.
They had quail eggs and lamb (kinda sounds good!) for breakfast. Merlin isn't fond of quail eggs, and I have to hold him, and put my finger on his nose with some. Then, he'll pick at it. Hermes, he'd eat every one I put out! (dance)
Will weigh tonight. Just forgot to take the scale home. ERRRR!!
I want to try turkey next. How long should I give them with each new protein before adding another?
And, last. What are good oils. I have some ferretone left over, so I use it once in awhile. I'm out of Emu oil, and I have tons of EV olive oil.