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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 14:45:48 GMT -5
Maybe you should mentor me. Do I get to pick? ;D I most definitely will swing by Natural k9 sometime this week. I have an exam next week that I've been putting off. I looked up a lot of the products you mentioned. The rad cat has low protein and fat, and one has veggies and fruits (which I know ferret's don't process as well as they should). I did happen to like stella's and chewy's duck duck goose (although they don't mention the amount of taurine). I just joined the fb page, I think I like your page as well. Now, when I plan this trip to natural k9... I should get frozen raw and dry freeze one just in case? So much information to soak up. But, I want my kids healthy. I know I have that 3-4 hr mentality. Dr. Stelling helped engrave that into my brain. Although, he's never given me his email. Oh he's gonna hear me. Lol. I find text replies better. Where is the pet ER clinic by the way. The ER that I have handy is the exotic pet care. Never been there, but I found an ER that actually handles ferrets, not cats. Last time I went to pet the pet ER room, they had some knowledge about ferrets, but based off a cat. Thank god stelling saw pinky on new years eve. How much raw should I give them? I was thinking of doing the soup thing and transitioning them to raw. If they actually like it. Does it have to be warmed up or can they eat it cold. I've read that some ferrets like eating raw sometimes still frozen! OMG another chemist!! We're so rare you know. Lol, I just applied to grad school but I'm a tech right now. If I get accepted, I may have to quit my job But, of course for a good reason. I thought that the transition would require time to introduce the kids to this new food. I'm sure the pinkster would love it. He likes cooked grilled chicken. Tiny is my picky eater. Loves his soups, barely munches on his kibble. Only when he wants to. So excited about the transition. Hopefully it is for the best. I tried the wet kibble with soup with tiny. He licked all the liquid soup and ate about 2 pieces of kibble. He's a spoiled brat, but I love him. I'll try the freeze raw with both, it he doesn't like it... there's always the epigen on it's way. I'm not much of a cook, soo.. the premade raw stuff sounds awesome.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 2, 2013 15:10:10 GMT -5
Maybe you should mentor me. Do I get to pick? ;D I most definitely will swing by Natural k9 sometime this week. I have an exam next week that I've been putting off. I looked up a lot of the products you mentioned. The rad cat has low protein and fat, and one has veggies and fruits (which I know ferret's don't process as well as they should). I did happen to like stella's and chewy's duck duck goose (although they don't mention the amount of taurine). I just joined the fb page, I think I like your page as well. Now, when I plan this trip to natural k9... I should get frozen raw and dry freeze one just in case? So much information to soak up. But, I want my kids healthy. I know I have that 3-4 hr mentality. Dr. Stelling helped engrave that into my brain. Although, he's never given me his email. Oh he's gonna hear me. Lol. I find text replies better. Where is the pet ER clinic by the way. The ER that I have handy is the exotic pet care. Never been there, but I found an ER that actually handles ferrets, not cats. [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/.png"].png [/IMG] Last time I went to pet the pet ER room, they had some knowledge about ferrets, but based off a cat. Thank god stelling saw pinky on new years eve. How much raw should I give them? I was thinking of doing the soup thing and transitioning them to raw. If they actually like it. Does it have to be warmed up or can they eat it cold. I've read that some ferrets like eating raw sometimes still frozen! OMG another chemist!! We're so rare you know. Lol, I just applied to grad school but I'm a tech right now. If I get accepted, I may have to quit my job [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/T_T.png"].png[/IMG] But, of course for a good reason. I thought that the transition would require time to introduce the kids to this new food. I'm sure the pinkster would love it. He likes cooked grilled chicken. Tiny is my picky eater. Loves his soups, barely munches on his kibble. Only when he wants to. So excited about the transition. Hopefully it is for the best. I tried the wet kibble with soup with tiny. He licked all the liquid soup and ate about 2 pieces of kibble. He's a spoiled brat, but I love him. I'll try the freeze raw with both, it he doesn't like it... there's always the epigen on it's way. I'm not much of a cook, soo.. the premade raw stuff sounds awesome. [/quote] the Canine Stella & Chewys has only 5% plant and vegetable matter. this is a tiny amount and it is suitable for ferrets. The Rad Cat (which is frozen and therefore contains alot of moisture) and the other frozen diets are not low in fat or protein. The moisture content is very LOW in dry kibble (or freeze dried raw) versus fresh raw meat /frozen raw such as Rad Cat, Natures Variety Instinct, Vital Essentials, Bravo, Stella & Chewys frozen, etc. if you were to convert these foods into a dry matter analysis, you would see that when converted to dry matter, the Rad Cat and the other frozen raw diets contain over 40% protein and over 20% fat.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 2, 2013 15:14:51 GMT -5
how to calculate dry matter analysis (including protein & fat content) in raw meat, or other foods that are high in moisture. read konotashi's comment on this thread. the mistake that you made is a very common one that people make. you are not taking into account the moisture. by the way, one of the things that makes raw fed ferrets so much healthier looking is the moisture content in the raw meat diet. kibble fed ferrets live on the brink of dehydration. they do not have the muscle mass or the fur quality that raw fed ferrets have. and I know because I have fed both kibbles and raw so i see the difference. it is a huge difference. dry kibbles also put a strain on their kidneys. holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=food&action=display&thread=6538
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 2, 2013 15:17:21 GMT -5
raw fed ferrets eat anywhere from 1 to 3 ounces per meal. usually about 2 ounces. girls eat less. they tend to eat twice a day. but always leave out a little extra so that they can eat more if they want to.
i feed about 2 ounces (usually a commercial raw grind) twice a day.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 2, 2013 15:18:51 GMT -5
dr. grant works out of a few different Pet ER clinics. one is in Tamarac, the other in fort lauderdale and i think one in deerfield.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 2, 2013 15:21:52 GMT -5
i guess if i were you, i would start out with a freeze dried raw like Stella & Chewys duck duck goose and Chicken. crumble it up and make a soup out of it. or just add to his soup that he is getting now. just add hot water from the faucet. do not microwave. never microwave any raw meat. 1st you remove all natural vitamins and minerals from it, 2nd there is ground raw bone in alot of those grinds and it is very dangerous to give animals cooked bone.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 21:11:36 GMT -5
I thought I posted a reply, It seemed to have disappeared? Either way. I will try to get my kids the stella and chewy sometime this week for sure! Maybe thursday? I usually microwave the soup. Oops. I'll use very hot water from now on. Is the freeze dried raw like raw meat when it's thawed out? This all very new to me. I'm almost tempted to run over to natural k9 right now, but I have to study . But, I will soon. For my kids sake. Can I request a mentor ? Because I just want to switch them over to the commercial stuff for now then maybe later on switch them to actual raw? ... 7 hours later I realize I didn't hit the post button.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 2, 2013 22:17:39 GMT -5
you can do commercial raw grinds first then incorporate fresh raw meat/bones/organs from grocery store later on yes. you can apply for a mentor by going under "home" and then click on "natural diet" and the mentor section is there. there is an application there. you need to get a few items before starting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 0:49:34 GMT -5
Yeah. I read through it. I recently purchased a coffee grinder . I was going to get a mortar and pestle, because once you work in a lab and you crush crystals with it, you wish you had one at home, but makes why not use an electronic. I may get a mortar just in case but later on when I'm switch them to actual raw. Not sure where I'd get the bones and organs because I don't usually go out looking for organs, I just grab the wrapped up meats. I need to find a nice scale. I could snag one from work, probably an old one, but I need something that will hold them and give me an accurate reading after I tare what will be holding them. It's on my thursday to do list, I don't head no where near work tomorrow. I'll be living at school but I'll come home for a small serving of soup for the children. Don't want tiny crashing on me because I only want to do the 12 hrs apart. Sadly, their epigen isn't getting here until next week even though I was promised it would be here by the 4th , So I may have to grab another bag of 8-in-1. I guess I can use that bag to transition them into epigen 90. So much to do. But, at least the new diet seems like a breath of fresh air.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 3, 2013 10:08:56 GMT -5
awwww your babies are so cute. i love their cute little paws. unfortunately only raw fed ferrets seem to do well being fed every 12 hours (but you must always leave enough so they can eat in between meals if they get hungry). if they are eating any sort of kibble, their BG is too unstable.
what dose of pediapred are they on? if they are not having bg's at least in the upper 70's, 80's or 90's (preferably in the upper 80's or 90's) then you may need to discuss increasing their pediapred dose.
I prefer to use diazoxide (proglycem) it kept BG up much better than the pediapred. i also hate pediapred because it gives them a huge belly and causes muscle wasting. as if they don't have enough of a problem with muscle wasting being adrenal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 11:19:25 GMT -5
Thanks. Pinky is my thief and Tiny is a momma's boy. Pinky is on 0.25ccs of prednisolone, which is pediapred, and tiny is on 0.5ccs. It's the 6.7mg/ 5mL. Last time we did a BG, tiny's was at 33 and Pinky was at 56 (which is when he started on pred). I read that diazoxide was more expensive and that it causes nausea (?) Not sure. Tiny, who was slimmer, has a pred belly. He's walking has improved with the soups actually. Pinky, who now gets soups on a daily basis as well, has always been overweight. He literally assaults his food. So when I start adding in the stella and chewy's chicken or duck duck goose food into their soups.. I should do that every 12 hrs? I've been feeding tiny soups every 6 hrs (7am, 1pm, 7pm, 1am, etc) The bigger meals are at 7 am/pm because that's when I give him his pred. I want to make sure I cause no damage. I give a slightly smaller yet pasty soup at 1 to hold him over. He's been slowly going back to kibble. He only eats what he wants. Sometimes he wants me to give him one kibble at a time, He'll want to jump in bed and get in the covers and then eat. Spoiled brat. The pinky-saurus on the other hand eats everytime he wakes up and is well hydrated. Well both of them are with the soups having water and they drink on their own time as well. To help them out with their muscles, I let them roam around the house a few times a week. Even though they're free-roamers, they get lazy in the room and just lay.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 11:24:49 GMT -5
Ohhhh, I forgot. I was going to post it as a question, Maybe I should look around the different files... but, Brushing their teeth. I attempted this when I give got my kids. They hated it. Ran away like if I were going to give them a bath in ice cold water. I have read that with raw you have to brush their teeth. Do you use a kid's toothbrush, those finger rubber toothbrushes for cats and dogs, a regular adult tooth brush? Should I scruff them while I do it, or Should i attempt it while they're knocked out just like clipping their nails? Ideas?
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Post by miamiferret2 on Apr 3, 2013 23:12:37 GMT -5
Thanks. Pinky is my thief and Tiny is a momma's boy. Pinky is on 0.25ccs of prednisolone, which is pediapred, and tiny is on 0.5ccs. It's the 6.7mg/ 5mL. Last time we did a BG, tiny's was at 33 and Pinky was at 56 (which is when he started on pred). I read that diazoxide was more expensive and that it causes nausea (?) Not sure. Tiny, who was slimmer, has a pred belly. He's walking has improved with the soups actually. Pinky, who now gets soups on a daily basis as well, has always been overweight. He literally assaults his food. So when I start adding in the stella and chewy's chicken or duck duck goose food into their soups.. I should do that every 12 hrs? I've been feeding tiny soups every 6 hrs (7am, 1pm, 7pm, 1am, etc) The bigger meals are at 7 am/pm because that's when I give him his pred. I want to make sure I cause no damage. I give a slightly smaller yet pasty soup at 1 to hold him over. He's been slowly going back to kibble. He only eats what he wants. Sometimes he wants me to give him one kibble at a time, He'll want to jump in bed and get in the covers and then eat. Spoiled brat. The pinky-saurus on the other hand eats everytime he wakes up and is well hydrated. Well both of them are with the soups having water and they drink on their own time as well. To help them out with their muscles, I let them roam around the house a few times a week. Even though they're free-roamers, they get lazy in the room and just lay. until they are fully transitioned to a 100% raw diet, i would continue with your current feeding schedule. feed every 4-6 hours if possible. as long as they are getting carbs in their diet, frequent feedings will be necessary. once you start transitioning them to raw, you will see that they will eat alot more at first. then they taper down and eat about 4 ounces a day. sometimes a little more, or a little less. there are quite a few people here who have insulinoma ferrets who have been switched to raw. these people (heather is one of them- one of her rescue ferrets "Fun-Go" has insulinoma) have noticed that their insulinoma ferrets do just fine with their two meals a day. but of course, we must always leave extra food out for them for in between meals. i find that my ferret barely eats from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. MAYBE he will have one or two pieces of freeze dried raw. but during the night he likes to eat. i can hear him sometimes at 3 a.m. making a racket in his feeding dens. I have cardboard boxes in the bedroom and in my closet so that he can eat in them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 23:43:43 GMT -5
3rd time trying to post.. I keep hitting the back button So, Tiny gets thick soups every 6 hrs. Part of me reallly wants him to munch on kibble inbetween meals, but he usually doesn't. He's usually knocked out. Sometimes when I'm home, I'll offer him some and at times he eats between 1-9 pieces. Depends on his mood. Pinky has been rather odd today. I dunno what it can be. Maybe an upset tummy? I gave him a lot more soup than I usually do this morning. He ate almost all of it. Sometime today it sounded like he was trying to hack something up but he didn't. It wasn't a full-blown vomit hacking, It was weird. After he did that, he went back to bed. Didn't like the new ground kibble mix, or maybe he ate before I gave it to him. He just took a few licks and was done. 30 mins after he woke up and ate kibble and went back to bed. He had a normal/gelatin like stool. He's been sleeping since. I want to wake him up so he can at least drink some fluids. I may give him a little bit of soup tomorrow morning. Not a whole lot. Poor little guy. I'm worried. I just hope his appetite isn't decreasing again. It decreased when we decreased his dosage to 0.15cc because of his diarrhea then went up to 0.3, it came back and now we're at 0.25. He makes it to the paper now. Before on 0.3 he was wake up and have some mistakes. I'll see how he is tomorrow. My poor baby. Oh, speaking of the devil. He poked his head out... now he's back asleep. Ahhhh.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 12:25:08 GMT -5
They had their first duck duck goose freeze dried soup with their old kibble mush, carnivore care and some baby chicken food. Tiny only left the mushy bits of kibble and ate everything else. Pinky ate some. I woke up him to get something in his system. He did leave some though I hope that holds him over until I come back home. When I opened the bag, there was 1/2 a medallion. Since I really didn't know how the it would look like when I added warm water to it, I only used up 1/4 of it (and 1/2 of the 1/4 went into eat bowl.. so 1/8). I may use more in their next feeding at about 6:30. I'll try feeding pinky what he left before I leave the house though. I want to make sure he doesn't crash on me while I'm out. Since they happened to like it, of course there was more kibble in there than the freeze dried raw, should I increase the duck duck goose and see how that goes? Whenever the rad cat chicken thaws out I may see if they eat it alone. I saw the ingredients, Looks like the stuff everyone says to feed their kids. Chicken leg and thighs, heart, bone, etc, etc.
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