Total raw beginner, with questions!

[Deleted]

Hello holistic ferreters!! ive been reading bits and pieces from this forum since I adopted my first little guys last April (now I have five!!) and I know you all have the best info i've seen so far. I have a lot of questions and concerns about raw food that have probably already asked on here, so please bear with me!

So i have five ferrets now, 2 girls, 3 boys, with ages 1, 2, 2, 3, and 7. I have tried a few different kibbles that didnt seem to agree with them ( not great quality) but in November I put them on a mix of Evo ferret and Wellness Core Turkey and Duck. I wanted grain free for sure because I thought that was probably the source of the tummy troubles, but I also wanted to add some novel protein sources because I hate that pretty much all commercial ferret foods are chicken based ( because what happens if one of them develops an allergy or whatever?)

anyways, this mix worked great for a few months, but lately im seeing some soft and seedy poops from everyone again. they have had lots of vet trips and probiotics, but they are happy and playful, eating and sleeping, and definitely not sick. SO i figure I am not approaching nutrition correctly. Ive been thinking about incorporating some raw into their diet, but have a few concerns.

1) I still want to leave kibble in their cage for the day, so that im not leaving them alone with raw food in their cage while im at work. I love the idea of Wysong Epigen, but i thought that too much protein is a bad thing for ferrets? If I feed something with zero carbs as kibble, and raw/freeze dried to supplement, is it going to be too rich for them?

2) I have a 7 year old ferret, just diagnosed with adrenal. Hes going on melatonin implants this week. I have heard that too much protein is harmful to senior ferrets' kidneys, is that true? feeding them separately isnt really an option for me, so I need something all five can eat.

3) I dont want to feed whole prey, or make my own concoctions. I know my ferrets eat meat ( and that they need too!) but i am a vegetarian, and really just dont want to see my sweethearts chowing down on a mouse body. Also as a student who also works a lot, I dont have a lot of time to make their food ( I already make Sebastian, my old guy, special soup every week). Soooo what should I be looking for in a commercial diet? As in, how much meat, bones, organs, and how much vegetable matter is acceptable? I know cat diets are what you would choose for ferrets, but there are a lot of different options out there.

4) any suggestions on how to feed? like, frozen raw in the morning, kibble throughout the day, freeze dried at night? also, any favorite brands you might suggest? If I do feed epigen as the kibble, I would want the frozen/freezedried to be not chicken based. I work at a pet store in Canada, so I can order in most brands if I cant order them online.

5) what benefits/drawbacks can I expect from feeding raw?

Sorry if this was long winded but I want to be thorough. Any information you guys have is really appreciated!!

[Deleted]

1) You can leave kibble in the cage all day when you're not home, but be sure they do not eat raw or kibble within a few hours of each other as it can cause digestive upset. Basically, you could feed raw at night/early morning, pick up the raw and leave a few hours later and leave them kibble. Then take the kibble away at night a few hours before meal time. There is no such thing as too much protein for ferrets EXCEPT for these two occurrences- the ferret is known to have bad kidneys, or the ferret has a certain type of bladder stone.

2) If your 7 year old getting any other treatment besides melatonin? Melatonin is simply cosmetic- it will only put hair back on, not treat the disease. He needs additional treatment with Lupron or Desorlin implant. See above statement about protein. So long as his kidneys are healthy and functioning normally, it's no problem. Carbs are far more damaging to a ferret than protein under normal circumstances.

3) Whole prey- that's fine, lots of people don't. We understand. If you cannot do make your own frakenprey, there are many commercial products available. These are generally ground meat and are sold in patties, small kibble looking bits or in large chubs. Generally you want something with no more than 5% vegetable matter in it. It needs to have muscle meat, bones and organs in it. If it is a dog food product, you need to make sure it has taurine added and says this on the packaging. Taurine is a vital nutrient for cats and ferrets. Cat foods generally will have taurine in them. Otherwise, you would have to put taurine powder into their food daily yourself. Please note that if you feed a commercial raw diet, you MUST be prepared to supply your ferrets with raw, meaty bones to chew on or brush their teeth very regularly as the grinds do nothing to keep their teeth clean and healthy.

4) Honestly, I would ditch the kibble entirely. Give them raw in the morning, leave freeze dried out during the day, supply fresh raw ground at night. Frakenprey raw can be left out all day in the cage, commercially ground not so much. So you could leave them a couple of drunk sticks or chicken wings to snack on during the day for instance. If not, I would go with freeze dried. For frozen raw I use Bravo, NVI, Stella & Chewy's, and Vital Essentials. I know the following brands are also suitable: Urban Carnivore, Rad Cat, Primal. You can get freezedried in many flavors as well as frozen raw. My store has a variety of frozen including rabbit, venison, beef, bison, chicken, lamb, beef/fish, turkey, duck, duck/turkey, goat, they can order if any of the many flavors Primal offers such as pheasant or quail.

5) Raw will make your ferrets smell strongly for a couple of weeks up to maybe 2 months as their bodies detox all the nastiness from the kibbles out of them. Once it's done they will have barely any scent.

As for benefits, there are many. They will have softer, thicker fur, they will be healthier in general- brighter eyes, more consistent energy levels, better reserves for fighting off illness and recovering. They tend to keep to a healthier weight better when not getting fattened up on carbs. If you are providing them with raw, meaty bones they will have excellent, healthy teeth that need very little work from you to maintain. They seem to enjoy a raw diet far more than kibble- it engages them more, stimulating them seemingly. They also often become closer to the one supplying the food rather than the bottomless kibble dish. Insuloma risk is greatly reduced on a raw diet as well.

[Heather]

Personally, I would dump the kibble once they were switched to raw. The benefits far outweigh the hastles. No, you don't have to feed prey. Some of us do but that's not for everyone....that's ok Commercial raw is great....expensive but fantastic. A little bit of research and you've got a completly balanced diet. Give them their morning breaky...go to work, pick up what is left over and feed them dinner. Ferrets on raw do not need food 24/7 so if they run out during the day, they're ok. I've got an insulinoma boy (2 yrs now) who is fed on a twice daily schedule and he's doing fantastic.
The benefits from feeding raw properly....are huge. No or little smell. Smaller stools. Healthier fuzzes, so less vet bills. Shorter recovery time if something does go wrong (and it will, they are ferrets). Raw fed ferrets heal faster. Adrenal ferrets on raw look healthier, because they are better hydrated (kibble keeps them forever on the point of dehydration) they have healthier skin (helps with the itchies) and coat....do you buy more time?....depends on the adrenal issue. Now....as was mentioned melatonin is just a bandaid (I use it with DES it's great for putting coat back on). You're going to need either a DES implant (my favourite) or lupron to really attack the adrenal issue. I've been very happy with the DES. It has given all my guys a good quality of life (something adrenal steals from them) and it's the most cost effective.
ciao

[Deleted]

Thanks! Thats a lot of awesome info. Your answer brought up another question: what bones should I be buying? I read some are too big or too hard for ferrets

[Heather]

If you're making your own food, they can often eat chicken, quail, rabbit, some pork, some turkey....if you take a cleaver to the bone and find you can chop it up, chances are they can consume it. Ferrets aren't like dogs, they're a lazy chew, so most like the softer bones, they won't often chew for the sake of chewing. Most beef bones even the ribs are too hard for them to consume. If you're using commercial grinds, the bone is often included (though read carefully as sometimes they don't or use chicken bone to make the bone content)
ciao

[Deleted]

well I bought a little 1/2 pound rabbit with organs and bones slab (Red Dog Blue Kat), defrosted it and cut a few little chunks off to see if I any of the gang would magically gravitate towards it. No luck. I mixed the little chunks into some of Sebastians soup that I hide his meds in ( which they usually scramble over each other to get at!) and even that seemed offensive to them. Guess I have to liquify the chunks and hide them in a little more soup to start out with. Im just so excited to get them on raw food! Must be patient.

[Sherry]

Just try to keep in mind they are imprinted on their food, and this new stuff you are trying to give them is indeed toxic in their minds They'll get there, not to worry

[Deleted]

so I decided to get them all dependent on raw-free soup before I tried sneaking some meaty bit in again. Yesterday morning and night I took their kibbles away for a few hours so they would be sure to be a bit hungry, and then put out some regular old ground kibble n' tinned food soup ( which they all gobbled up right away). SO this morning I took a few pieces of rabbit Red Dog Blue Kat and ground it up as finely as possible to mix in, and to my delight, they ate it all up and licked the bowl clean!! Success!! I think i'll use the same proportion again tonight, I dont want to go too fast and ruin all my progress.

The only one who didnt go straight to the soup was Lucy, but I think thats because she was too busy getting into mischief. I guess I just have to tucker her out a bit more before mealtime.

[Sherry]

Oh that's excellent