Jakeevox's Switching Thread/Yurei Avalon

[Heather]

Name: Jake Ehrie
HF Forum Username: Jakeevox

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?

----- From a local ferret rescue about 6 months ago when i first got Luna.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.

-----I want to fully switch to a natural diet. I dont think i could bring myself to feed live so frozen/thawed would be great!

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?

-----I want little luna to be as healthy as she can be.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?

----- Yes

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?

----- I have one female ferret named Luna she is about 1 year and 4 months old. and we have had her for about 7 months. Im not sure is she is over or under weight but she weighs 1.5 lbs/ 680g

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)

----- Right now she is eating Ultimate 8 in 1 crunchy, and for treats she has Marshals "bandits" and ferretone.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?

----- Yes... well very recently. To try and get her to like the taste of meat i blended up a chicken breast and fed it to her like soup. But i havent given that to her in a few days as i have been gathering supplies to make real soup. I she got to the point that she would scarf down the chicken breast soup so i started to try to give her slivers and she would not eat them, so i stopped, joined the form and decided to try and start over with real soup and a mentor.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

----- My girlfriend and i live in a small simple loft, so Luna is allowed to roam free.

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

-----everyday

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Yurei Avalon), our newest mentor, will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Deleted]

Hi Jake, my name is Bethany and I'll be helping you switch your girl Luna to raw with any luck! If you have any questions or have a problem and need an answer quickly you can email me at [e-mail] or pm me.

I'll post my into below so you can skip it or read it as you chose. For right now I'd like to know what your feeding schedule is with Luna, what you have on hand available for meat for her and if you have still been attempting to feed her soup or have stopped with that. If feeding soup, is it a commercial product or home made?

Also just as am FYI I do the following to gauge weight as being healthy or not for a ferret.

Look at the ferret. Can you see their hip bones? Can you see their rib or back bones (vertebrae)?

If you can see ribs or back bones, your ferret is underweight and needs immediate attention. If you can see the hips kind of "jutting" out when they are standing, you're fine.

Feel your ferret. If you cannot feel ribs or any other bones, your ferret is overweight. You probably can see this clearly enough with the naked eye though, they tend to be quite round.

With a healthy ferret you can just barely feel the ribs and back through the fat/muscle/fur.

Name: Bethany
HF Screen Name: Yurei Avalon
Location: NH, USA

About Me:
I’m 25; I currently work for a subsidiary company of Coca Cola making their plastic bottles. Not exactly my dream job, but it pays the bills and pays extremely well for someone without a college degree. I’ve worked as a cook for a number of years and in retail as well. I have to say out of all of it, I feel that I actually enjoy working retail under the right environment. Someday I hope to run my own business as well as a nonprofit ferret rescue and education program. I currently live with my boyfriend Matt in a condo, which we hope to upgrade to a larger house in a few years. Once we build an appropriate house we intend to make the most excellent ferret habitat possible and look into getting privately bred ferrets, living as natural a life as possible.

My favorite color is..... Silver
My favorite food is.... Chocolate, followed by spicy things
My favorite holiday is.... Halloween
My favorite hobby is... Reading
I like to listen to... Pretty much anything but rap and country.
I collect... Ferrets! Model kits, Mounts/pets in WoW and MtG cards
Something about me you might be surprised to know... When I was a sophomore in high school I won my town’s fall chili cook-off contest with the recipe my high school culinary program gave to me. It got me $100, a story in the local newspaper and to this day, that chili recipe makes everyone who tries it a believer. (Turkey Cilantro for those enquiring minds.)
I became a mentor because...
I switched my own ferrets using information and tips I found on this site and from other places on the internet. I know from painful experience what a poor or inappropriate diet can do to a pet and I don’t want anyone to have to see their animal suffer like I watched mine suffer growing up. I’ve also made mistakes in pet care in the past, and I feel that the best way to atone for them is to learn everything I can to make myself the best pet parent I can be so that it never happens again. And if I can help other people do the same, so much the better!

About My Ferrets:
I currently have 9 ferrets with no desire to have more for now as I feel I am at the limit at which I can handle caring for them all appropriately. I have 6 hobs and 3 jills, all of which are Marshall Farm ferrets and are all young. Most of my ferrets were eating kibble for several months and then were switched to raw. The three newest went straight to raw the day they came home from the store. My ferrets are very spoiled- they have 4 triple unit ferret nation cages and a couple of hundred feet of tunnel connecting them to each other as well as a ferret playroom.

1. Murder – Male, sable. One of our oldest two ferrets, he is our alpha and a bit over a year old now.
2. Mayhem – Female, sable. One of our oldest two ferrets, she is still stuck on the soupy stage and is a bit over a year old now.
3. Artemis – Male, albino. My only “rescue”, purchased off of CL. He’s believed to be about a year old now.
4. Chell – Female, silver panda. A sweet, deaf wardy girl who is about 8 months old now.
5. Glad0s – Female, silver. An 8 month old, tiny jill who can out eat the hobs and is a tunneling expert.
6. Zar’thun – Male, dark sable. A well behaved, 7 month old hob with an excellent nature.
7. Stormageddon – Male, polecat. A clever 5 month old hob who believes he will one day rule the world.
8. Sigma – Male, dark sable. A 4 month old hob with a temperament as sweet as the Ood’s song. A real cuddle bug.
9. Wheatley – Male, silver panda. A 9 month old hob who may be a few sandwiches short of a picnic but he’s as affectionate as any other ferret. Currently still stuck at the soup stage.




About My Natural Feeding Experience:

Type of Mentor:
I have fed kibble so I have experience judging quality of kibbles. I mainly feed commercial raw products right now and I also use raw, meaty bones and muscle meat. I am trying to secure myself a local raw meat supplier so I can begin to transition my group to a full frakenprey, non commercial, homemade diet. I also use freeze dried and jerkied meats.

My Specialty:
I would have to say that I seem to find creative ways of getting ferrets to try new things when the normal process just isn’t working for a stubborn ferret. I’ve never fed whole prey, but I could certainly come up with ideas to help others who wanted to try get there.

Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=176#ixzz2CCNywTbF

[Deleted]

The soup I'm feeding her is the recipe on the forum with the hearts, liver, breast, and egg shell powder. I have it frozen into 1 tbsp cubes. I try and hover her a new one every 4 to 6 hours so it doesn't go bad. But she is not really eating too much of it. If I hand feed some of it she will start eating out of the bowl, but very quickly loses interest and doesn't want any more. Since she wouldn't eat any by herself I added ground kibble last night to make it a more familiar smell to her, but it doesn't seem like she had eaten very much. Yesterday I broke down and gave her the bowl of kibble
For a few hours because she wouldn't eat the soup by herself.

As for her weight, she is definitely not over weight. I would say she is on the under weight side. She isn't emaciated or anything, but could stand to put on weight.

The hardest part so far is the fact that she will eat out of the bowl at first, but then she never comes back to it to eat again. I mean if she didn't like it she wouldn't eat at all right?!

[Deleted]

Over the past few days luna has eaten a little bit of soup here and there but hasn't really eaten much. Im not sure whats going on with little Luna today, but she has eaten 3 1/2 tbsp of soup today! There hasn't even been a need to hand feed her. I just show her there is more food and she starts eating after a few sniffs. Usually its a few licks from the bowl and nothing else. She feels, and is heavier. the scale says she has gained almost a 1/4 of a pound. Her poop is much different looking, but i looked online and its not supposed to look like kibble poop. So i guess thats ok.

And i didnt mean to be rude, Im Jake and i cant wait to get started! Thanks for mentoring!

[Deleted]

Not rude at all. And don't be afraid to post poop pics here if you've got questions, we're not afraid to look at it.

Ok, during the day while you are [presumably] gone at work or school you will want to leave her some kibble out in her cage to eat if she's not eating soup from the bowl regularly yet. You don't want her to get too thin or ill. Don't leave a huge, overflowing bowl, leave just enough to give her something to snack on through the day. Then when you get home, take the kibble away or her away from the kibble if she stashes it a lot for a few hours.

You can also do this same thing when you go to bed for the night. Leave just a bit of kibble to take the edge off, so that she'll be hungry when you get up in the morning and can feed her.

If you can give her a few hours to get hungry, she will be more likely to feed herself and eat more. Are you serving the soup cold, room temp or warmed up a bit? If cold or room temp, consider heating it up a bit for her -but do NOT microwave it. Use some hot water from the faucet, or heated up on the stove in a small pot or tea kettle, or from a keurig style machine. This will release some of the aroma and make it more palatable.

If you are already doing this and she is still being shy about it, you will have to work on hand feeding her a bit. Sit down with a spoon with her near the bowl and offer her soup from the spoon or your fingers. Let her have a little, then slowly walk her closer to the bowl. Eventually you can drop the bowl or your fingers into the bowl and she'll eventually be eating from the bowl. It may take several days of this, but you *should* be able to wean her off of spoon feeding all the time.

You can also try enticing her to eat more soup by sweetening the deal with some of her favorite treat mixed into it- pumpkin, ferretone, oil etc and gradually reduce the amount over a week or two until there's none in it to get them chowing down.

Also keep in mind that some days your ferret may be less hungry than others and just want to eat less. Mine weren't eating as much the past two days, then today they cleaned all of their bowls out because they are getting over a cold.

Let me know if you've tried any of these tricks and how they work out and we'll keep going with ideas if you have and they've all failed. Some of mine took a week or two to be eating regularly from a bowl by them self. Also, the type of bowl may be bothersome to them depending on what you are using. If the rim is too high, they may not like stretching their neck over it to get down at the soup.

Within a couple of weeks though at max she *should* hopefully be eating by herself regularly and you won't have to babysit every meal. Also, you can eventually get her to the point with any luck that you can leave soup out all day for her to eat and she'll eat it. Mine don't enjoy it as much at room temp, but they will eat it if they are hungry. If there's anything left when I come home I add some hot water to it for a quick warm up and they finish it off.

[Deleted]

Alright... Im gonna have to put up some poop pics cuz im a little nervous. I got home this evening and my girlfriend told me that luna had thrown up. On top of that i looked around at the litter box (which she went to the bathroom right beside) only to find very strange poop. I felt like she had been acting different today(very sleepy and pitiful looking), but could not describe how since she isnt a very active ferret. It just seemed like her mood was different. Anyway a combination of her behavior, her throwing up, and the amount of food she ate today has gotten me a bit worried. Im not to sure what to do. As soon as i post this i will be looking for the ferret poop thread but any help would be great.

[Deleted]

Have they been loose like that a lot lately?

Vomiting can sometimes be a sign of a blockage. It's shedding season, and that means there's a possibility of hairballs. She's not not full blocked if she's pooping, but you should probably flush her out to be safe.

Do you have any of the following available to you, or can you run to the store and pick them up?

Canned pure pumpkin, found in baking aisle at grocery store (not pie filling with spices)
Plain vaseline
Ferretlax
Or failing all of these, extra virgin olive oil, or a fish oil product such as salmon or cod oil.

The pumpkin would be my first choice as it firms stools as well as helps to push things out. I'd give her a teaspoon or two every few hours if you're home. If not, leave a bit larger amount for her in the cage and give another large amount when you get home. Some ferrets like pumpkin straight from the can. Some do not. You may have to heat it up a bit if she doesn't like it straight from the can (or fridge). I have one that will only eat it if I thin it down with some water and then heat it up as hot as she can stand.

Basically you want to keep her in a cage all day with plenty of food and water, a clean litterbox and push the pumpkin. If you see bright orange stools don't be alarmed, that's just the pumpkin. If she continues to vomit, you will need to take her to a vet as she can become dehydrated very quickly. Vomiting can mean other things too such as an allergy to a new food or an upset stomach due to illness or medication. Watch how much she is eating and drinking and pooping. With any luck you may see some strange looking poos, some orange ones and then back to normal within a day or two.

The possibly lethargy bothers me, it could be a lot of things. Hopefully it is nothing more than feeling off due to a hairball or even a common flu. I know mine are all healing from being sick the past 3 or so days.

Keep offering her soup and kibble all day to keep her eating and let me know what is happening.

[Deleted]

No they have not been like that, Just yesterday evening. She hasnt thrown up other than that one time. I fed her as much pumpkin as she would eat. I also gave a bit of vaseline. I came home this evening to a normal poo, (except orange of course) and another that seemed normal. (without the orange) Her "mood", i guess you could call it, seems a lot better than the other day. She is actually coming out of the room and walking around. She has eaten a good amount today so i think she is recovering from whatever it may be. But i will keep you posted and keep her going on the soup.

[Deleted]

Excellent news!

Keep us posted and let me know how it goes with trying to get her to bowl feed by herself. If you have a different style of bowl, it wouldn't hurt to try using it in case it's the bowl she's not fond of rather than the food. Some of mine don't like the huge green bowls I use because the rim is so high they have to perch their feet on it when it's not recessed into the feeding den. I have 3 sizes of bowl for different things and sometimes I just have to use the shallow ones.

[Deleted]

I must have spoken too soon. I woke up and checked the litter box to find what looks like normal poop with green in it. And she just recently went and it was literally liquid. It looked like a little soup, and the rest was pee. I dont know what to do she doesn't seem to be feeding herself, but at this point I'm starting to think its because she isn't feeling well. (Because she has fed herself before) but I'm very concerned about the green, and the wetness of the poop. I just gave her some soup and pumpkin(both with extra water to keep her hydrated) and she has gone right back to sleep.

I found a little ferret poop chart saying it could be from passing food too quick and mild stress and new food items. But I'm still not sure what to do. Should I just go ahead and give her kibble until she is feeling better? I know she will eat that.

[Deleted]

Always give a sick ferret constant access to food, they can go downhill so fast. Even if it's not the best thing for her, if kibble is what she'll eat then leave kibble in the cage with her at all times when not feeding soup.

Ferrets can have loose stools when switching to a better quality kibble or a raw diet due to the richness of it and it should correct itself in maybe a week. Are you feeding enough eggshell/too much organ by chance? A little green mucous from the stress of the switch (or stress from other life changes) is not too much to worry about but if she has slimy green poops that get worse or persist for several days and don't clear up, it could mean a trip to the vet.

I would keep giving her some pumpkin to keep her stools firm so she doesn't risk prolapsing and making sure she is drinking plenty of water. Lethargy is worrisome, but it's almost winter and I've noticed a down tick in energy in my own group... so it's hard to say. Your best bet is to keep an eye on her closely.

[Deleted]

Alright i measured her food out tonight so i will know if she takes some on her own during the night. That way ill know if im gonna need to put out kibble at night. Ill definitely going to keep an eye on the litter box and make sure everythings coming out ok.I measured out all of the soup ingredients when i made it so it should all be spot on.

This is some SWITCHING THREAD huh?! We've spent half of it talking about poop!!!haha

Bust seriously..... Should i be moving forward with actually switching her and starting to try slivers, or should i just hold off and get her feeling better and just keep her on soup? I dont want to stress her out more by rushing the switch. Or will continuing switching even affect the situation?

[Deleted]

I would personally not press forward until she is feeling better. You will want her to be fully comfortable with the step she is at before taking her out of her comfort zone. If you start pushing new types of meat on her or larger pieces, she may balk and stress herself out and cause more problems or if she does try it and enjoy it, she may just have some difficulties digesting and cause more problems with her stool and feeling crappy. You'll want her to equate switching as a positive experience, not a negative one so you definitely won't want to rush her.

With switching you can slide back down 2 steps for every step forward on occasion if you push too hard or too fast. Keep doing what you're doing for now until her stools firm up and become normal (and stay normal) for at least a few days and she is eating her current soup on her own with a good appetite and has energy again.

Once she's feeling better and adjusted to soup you can start weaning her onto large bites and different types of proteins. Heck, you might not even have to wean her onto large meat chunks. Some of my youngsters I tossed chunks at them and they took right to it instinctively.

Also don't feel bad about the poo- mine are all having liquid poo now for some reason. I think mine all have the flu or something still.

[Deleted]

Still checking her poop and it seems like it gets better and then it doesnt, or this ones greenish and that one isnt. Im having a hard time just figuring out if its getting better or not.

[Deleted]

How many days has it been like this now? Might be time to take her to the vet for a script of some antibiotics in case it's an infection such as ECE or Heliobacter or any number of other things.