Hacking again bad - can we go back on pred so soon

[Deleted]

Ok, I have posted in multiple times about Bandit and his many problems. Right now I just have a question about prednisone. Over the past month we had decided to try giving Bandit prednisone to see if it would help his symptoms (so we could narrow down a diagnosis), but it seems that the predinone did not help him at all. We started him exactly 1 month ago on a compounded form of prednisolone and for the first 2 weeks he was on .8ML and for the second 2 weeks we had him on .4ML. He has now been of the pred for 3 days. But, now he is starting to cough and hack and breath weird again A LOT today and it is beginning to worry us. Unfortunately, my vet is off today and he is not taking any calls so I am having to go through other non-ferret vets at his office to answer my questions about pred, which really aren't getting answered. However, the vet said that they would refill the pred and allow him to take a .4ML dose for a week without my vets consent (but the meds won't be ready for about 6 hours). So my question to you is - can we actually put Bandit back on pred today? Will it harm him after having been on it for 1 month and then off for 3 days? Are their complications with putting him back on pred for such a short period of time? OR, should we just wait until tomorrow when I can go to see my vet (who will be back in town) and see what he says before we administer anymore pred?

I'm just concerned because I know pred can be dangerous if not given properly and I feel weird about just giving him more pred without my vet's consent. On the other hand, if Bandit's coughing/hacking persists we might potentially be looking at another ER trip tonight if he starts his vomiting episodes again (which tends to occur after days of constant hacking). I just let Bandit lick a little rescue remedy from the dropper to see if it would calm him and his coughing down, but it's been too soon to know if it is helping.

[Deleted]

can't answer your questions but just wanted so let you know that I'm thinking about you guys and praying someone can find an answer for poor Bandit...

[Sherry]

It won't hurt him to go back on it again for a while. Boris was on and off over a period of almost a year. The rescue remedy may require two or three doses before having an effect. He can have them every 15-20 minutes to start with. You can't overdose with it, just wind up wasting it if it doesn't help.

[Heather]

Pred can be given back at full dosage it's the weaning off that becomes the issue of dangerous reactions. So, if you want to put Bandit back on the pred you can without ill effect....you can also wean off or wean down again by following the similar instructions that you followed the first time.
ciao

[Deleted]

Ok, so I'm posting this reply in 2 parts -

First, I have a question about pred itself. You say that dangerous reactions can occur if a fert isn't weened off of it properly. What are these reactions? What can happen if he isn't weened slowly enough? This may be a stupid question but I haven't seen anything specific on this.

Second, UPDATE - It's hard to say the RR worked, but after he licked a little rescue remedy off of the dropper he was not heard coughing again Bandit woke up this morning and for about 4 hours kept hacking and coughing and doing his weird breathing thing, then we gave him the RR, he ran around a bit more, he went to sleep, got up randomly, and hasn't been heard to cough since. Now, I don't see how something like RR could work SO FAST and not only calm him down but actually make him stop hacking. Now I just am really wondering why exactly he was hacking so bad, and what RR could possibly have to do with his health?!? OR, did he just have a REALLY bad morning to be followed by a normal afternoon/evening - but this would be odd because I have never encountered this before. Before, whenever had a bad day like today he usually kept it up until a few days down the road we ended up in the ER. Now I'm even wondering if we should begin the pred again. Unfortunately, I was unable to get the pred today (it wasn't ready until after I was already at work), but I am going to go get it tomorrow just to have it on-hand, and now I will have the chance to actually speak with my vet about today's situation. But I still just don't know what to think about what happened today. I just wish I knew what was wrong with Bandit!!!

[darlene]

www.mayoclinic.com/health/prednisone-withdrawal/AN01624

The above link will give you a good idea of what could happen. I realize it's based on what symptoms would be for a person. The first time I used pred for my Jayla I wasn't warned about abruptly stopping. When I had to put her on pred again,the pharmacist noticed and explained how dangerous it was. He described alot of the issues mentioned in the article.

[Sherry]

What the RR did was to prevent him from panicking and making the cough worse. It helped to calm and relax him.
When a fuzz starts having some sort of spasm that they can't control, they do frequently panic. And when they panic, they start coughing, vomiting, or whatever it is they were doing even more. It really does make a difference.
So glad it worked for Bandit

[Deleted]

Oh I'm glad your baby found some relief.

[Deleted]

Thank you all for your comments and concern!!!

Update - still going to get the pred later today (because they already made it and it wouldn't hurt to have it on hand for now), but I did get to talk to my vet today and he is unsure of why Bandit started his coughing again, but said that since it did stop he would agree that we shouldn't put him back on the pred just yet. He said to keep an eye on Bandit and keep him informed. As for the RR, my vet actually knew what it was and what it does, but without him actually saying it I don't think he puts much stock in it. He said that he feels the only thing it probably did to help Bandit was as a lubricant for his throat, his coughing, etc. As for Bandit, I wasn't here all night last night because of work, though my SO was and since yesterday morning we have only heard Bandit cough twice, and he hasn't hacked and his breathing seems mostly normal, for him anyway.

[Heather]

Most vets aren't going to put much stock in the RR, there are people on here that don't either. I was a sceptic too (many years ago)....what's the essance of a couple of none medicinal plants going to do...sorry...I've seen it work way too often to be a sceptic any more. If that's what it takes to work then use it. Sherry's right. These wee ones remind me of toddlers when it comes to puking. They turn themselves into little bowls of hyperactive, screaming jelly. They get themselves into such a state about the possibility of being sick that they make themselves sick. Sorry, but when it comes to puking ferrets are a bit neurotic
ciao

[Deleted]

Glad to hear Bandit is doing better. As far as the vet's theory on what RR did ... even if it just "lubricated" his throat, it helped him which is a good thing! Honestly, I was very skeptical of RR really doing anything when I first heard about it but was desperate at one point so I tried it. I've used it on my dog and the fuzzies and it has actually worked to calm them. Now i keep it on hand all the time!

[Deleted]

I've used RR on myself when I'm entering into a stressful situation, and I can personally say that I've felt the effects. Homeopathic medicine is a tricky thing to wrap your head around, especially when you're used to thinking in allopathic terms.

[Deleted]

Apologies or not being on top of your situation... my life has been "upside-down" for quite some time these days....

A couple of things here......
Prednisolone given in high doses over a period of time can be harmeful to the liver . Even though prednisolone is MUCH easier on the liver than prednisone, even the predisolone can result in liver issues, most commonly, fatty liver.
Tapering off of high doses of pred can be problem that can result in anything from minor mood disturbances to death. This is VERY individual depending upon chemical makeup of the patient.

That being said, I have had 2 ferrets on .25 cc/ml of prednisolone for over 3 years, and neither had issues from the pred - nor did it affect their life spans. The key is to do blood work to check liver values when pred is given......I also have a ferret (over 7 years old) who has elevated liver values - and she has NEVER even had one dose of pred.(of any type) in her life. (And she does not share my drinks!!!)

Regarding "pred" as a treatment....
pred suppresses the immune system which means it has anti-inflamatory properties. If the coughing is caused by viral/bacterial activity, pred. can make the situation worse because thee immune system will not be at its best for fighting infection.

Pred . is also bizarre in that it can improve the quality of life through anti-inflammatory properties - pred can suppress a lot - it can even shrink cancerous tumors, which can make the patient feel much better. However, the pred.suppresses the immune system, so the immune system is LESS-capable of cleaning up any cancer cells. As such, prednisone is a palliative treatment rather than a cure. Pred. can extend the quality of life, but it cures NOTHING.

That being said, if pred is going to help, it usually acts quickly , especially if given at higher doses. >8 is not a low dose of pred. for a ferret.

The rescue remedy....this is also another very individual thing - rescue remedy does tend to reduce stress and/or quiesce the system . If you have the human version that contains alcohol, the alcohol alone can have a calming affect....it's kind of like taking codeine cough syrup. (The codeine will not help cure the cough, but it will let you sleep, it it will help prevent further irritation of the lungs)

I tend to think that, if the pred were going to "work", the .8 dose would have done the trick. With some problems, the pred can "work" or a couple of weeks and then stop working.

Although i don't know your entire story, I don't have any concern with your vet's approach to diagnosis...these things can take time to figure out.

-jennifer