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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 8, 2017 10:57:30 GMT -5
Weights on the girls: Tink: 668g Monday: 655g My scale is off, slightly. I know on Oct 27th Tink was 680g when we put her on the scale at work. She FEELS heavier, so I think it's just my scale. The boys will get weighed this evening when they're out playing.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 8, 2017 22:20:55 GMT -5
Sammy: 1137g Dean: 1081g
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Post by Sherry on Nov 9, 2017 10:50:21 GMT -5
How many proteins are they getting now?
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 9, 2017 11:57:07 GMT -5
It was a lot of grinds the past couple of weeks, primarily. They got cornish game hen and quail as well. The quail wasn't quite as big of a hit as I'd expected, honestly. I just brought up some already-portioned packs (apparently I was smart whenever I had done that!), so lets see what we have in those... I THINK I packed a week's worth of meals in those bags with the exception of organs, so I'll have to add those in. Without going through bone vs boneless, I see in there pork, turkey, chicken, and rabbit. I have cornish game hen in the freezer up here as well as duck necks. The boys CHOW on those, I see maybe 4 or 5 vertebrae pieces and that's it. It works like I wanted it to for Sammy, because the week that was primarily grinds I found one of the blankets in their cage had a small hole in it. He just needs to chew. He's lucky he's cute. I have for organ meat pork kidney, beef and pork heart, and pork liver to portion plop into their menu routine. The kitty has been doing well in terms of vomiting. A few small vomit occurrences, NOTHING like before! She's been eating beef and even duck grinds successfully, and I've added chicken necks and her organ meats in as well. She regurgitated something the other day, I'm pretty sure it was a chicken neck. But then proceeded to eat it a little while later (oh, to be a cat) and it stayed in after that. She's not as persistent for food, and seems to be slimming slightly. Probably because she isn't constantly stealing Peter's food. Poor kitty though, she's been mopey since he left us and very needy. She may not have wanted to seek him out, but he was a constant presence in her life for 4 years and she interacted with him every day all over the house. She's getting better, but she was pretty lost for the first couple of weeks
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Post by Sherry on Nov 10, 2017 10:17:54 GMT -5
Okay for the ferrets, I need you to give me a sunday to saturday menu so we can work on where it may need to be tweaked. Do the same for kitty(SO glad to hear she is doing so much better, YAY!) And they do indeed miss their friends. When our old kitty Stubbs lost his best friend, a pit bull name Mia several years ago he became a completely different animal. I don't think we give them enough credit for emotions TBH.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 13, 2017 21:56:53 GMT -5
Okie Dokie. Here goes. This is for the ferrets.
Sun am: Chicken neck Sun pm: boneless pork Mon am: Chicken wing Mon pm: Rabbit bone-in Tues am: boneless turkey Tues pm: heart Weds am: rabbit bone-in Weds pm: cornish game hen Thus am: heart/liver (this is 50/50 split, right?) Thus pm: chicken breast/ribs Fri am: chicken neck Fri pm: rabbit bone-in Sat am: mystery bag Sat pm: heart with liver/kidney (50% heart, 25% liver and 25% kidney?)
Some of the chicken bone-in is duck necks for the boys. I also have turkey necks, but haven't broken those out yet. I need to try to get more quail, hopefully at a better price. The Sat am meal can either be that, if we have it, or bone-in chicken. I suppose it can even be boneless, occasionally? This may change slightly in that they may get something different than each meal states, but the weekly balance will be the same. I found that it seems to be easiest to portion each meal into a tiny bag, then put enough for a week into a larger ziplock for each pair. That way, just open a bag and grab a smaller zippy bag.
I have mice that I want to try for Monday still, but haven't done so yet, mostly because I'm afraid of mouse guts all over the place. Is there a good, safe place to buy mice at a good price that you know of? Hare Today was a bit more expensive than I expected. I think the boys would enjoy the mice too, so I'd like a good economical source of them.
How much bone-in is okay, without throwing off a huge balance elsewhere? Sammy's chewing seems to be controlled only when he has appropriate things to chew. I may have to adjust the menu more depending on how this goes. He'd eat bones on a daily basis if he could. He just HAS to chew.
Kitty's meals right now are boneless pork, beef grind, chicken necks (which is going well), and her organs. I need to get her onto a routine, now that she seems to be tolerating things better. I'm keeping turkey and rabbit out of the diet for now since those were her largest issues.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 14, 2017 11:37:11 GMT -5
You and they are doing SO well right now Ratios are good, except for heart/liver/organ(will explain in a moment) Okay, tweaks for the ferrets. We need to get more proteins in that menu. You have chicken and rabbit listed in the menu. If instead of chicken necks, it is duck necks, please list it as such so we know that is now a regular part of their diet Unfortunately for the purposes of their diet, organ proteins being different really don't count nutrient wise. Example, if the only pork you use is the pork kidney and heart, we can't count that as an extra protein as liver/heart/organ all have the same basic nutrients whether pork, beef, chicken, etc. It is the muscle meats where it makes the difference. Amounts for heart etc are one meal of heart alone. One meal liver/organ alone, and one meal half heart, one quarter liver, one quarter other organ So you were close! Consumable bone in meals can be up to 9 meals a week depending on stools. If harder, crumbly, dry, etc then they are getting too much. If stools are too soft and wet, increase bone meals. I actually had one girl who needed up to 10 bone meals a week or she'd prolapse from too much loose stool. Kitty is doing well also! Leave the turkey/rabbit off the menu for her until you KNOW she is stable, then you can try a meal of either. Just make sure she gets enough heart/liver/organ. Cats actually need less bone than ferrets, so that helps.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 16, 2017 11:58:05 GMT -5
You and they are doing SO well right now Ratios are good, except for heart/liver/organ(will explain in a moment) Okay, tweaks for the ferrets. We need to get more proteins in that menu. You have chicken and rabbit listed in the menu. If instead of chicken necks, it is duck necks, please list it as such so we know that is now a regular part of their diet Unfortunately for the purposes of their diet, organ proteins being different really don't count nutrient wise. Example, if the only pork you use is the pork kidney and heart, we can't count that as an extra protein as liver/heart/organ all have the same basic nutrients whether pork, beef, chicken, etc. It is the muscle meats where it makes the difference. Amounts for heart etc are one meal of heart alone. One meal liver/organ alone, and one meal half heart, one quarter liver, one quarter other organ So you were close! Consumable bone in meals can be up to 9 meals a week depending on stools. If harder, crumbly, dry, etc then they are getting too much. If stools are too soft and wet, increase bone meals. I actually had one girl who needed up to 10 bone meals a week or she'd prolapse from too much loose stool. Kitty is doing well also! Leave the turkey/rabbit off the menu for her until you KNOW she is stable, then you can try a meal of either. Just make sure she gets enough heart/liver/organ. Cats actually need less bone than ferrets, so that helps. Only sometimes it's duck necks, and only JUST for the boys as I doubt the girls would eat them. Sometimes the boys get the chicken necks also. We do pork as a boneless meal (pork sirloin). Are there any bone-in options of pork to look for? Okay the organ stuff is what I can't seem to wrap my head around. I'll use the boys as my example here. They get a meal of 4oz to split. If it's their heart meal, that meal should be 4oz heart, correct? Their organ meal: 2 oz liver, 2 oz kidney? And that's one meal, right? Then the mixture, 2 oz heart/1oz liver/1oz kidney? Sam needs some kind of auto-feeder setup that will just dispense chicken wings regularly or something, so he can chew on. He's gonna be the death of me. Bananey's labwork all came back great yesterday. She's 8.18 pounds, definitely weighs less than I expected. Still a BCS of 7/9 so I'll take it. She had one kidney value that was slightly elevated but just enough to make us look at the rest of her labs closer, and it ended up being nothing. The rest of her bloodwork was perfect and her urinalysis also. We'll repeat those kidney value checks probably in another 3-6 months just to peek but not too worried. No calcium level issue either. Yay! Teeth have some tarter, but not enough that a dental was recommended so I'm happy there too. I know it'll get better the more we keep her moving forward with her diet.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 16, 2017 12:04:48 GMT -5
Correct Only after they've been eating bones for a while, and then only some will eat the button bones. But why not feed them all the same thing? My tiny girls could chow down on turkey necks and drumsticks with the big boys, no problem. And that is excellent about Bananey!
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 16, 2017 12:07:33 GMT -5
Have you ordered from Rodent Pro before? I'm wondering about getting quail and maybe mice through there. I have some mice in the freezer from Hare Today. They've been there a while now as I got them early on but haven't been brave enough to give them...I don't even know if Tinker remembers what they are, she hasn't had one since she's been here, so I guess we'll see! Do I just pull 2 out and thaw in the fridge? In a bowl of water? I think that's how they thaw the pinkies at work for the raptors. Do I feed at room temp?
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Post by Sherry on Nov 16, 2017 12:09:35 GMT -5
I'm in Canada so can't. But I have heard good things about them. I would however, take the mice out and give to all of them. Just cut the belly open, and fill with oil. Seeing one eat them should kick start the others. I just thaw on the counter
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 16, 2017 12:10:58 GMT -5
Tinker's a bit lazy and was backing off of bones for a while. The other day I was shocked when she went for that rabbit leg like she did. Monday will probably eat the duck necks, though. She's a bit...hardcore...so I'm sure she'll do fine with it. I don't know if I have any of those left, they may have finished them, but I'll give it a go. I DO have turkey necks in the freezer to portion and offer. I only gave them something different as I wasn't convinced the girls would go for the bigger bones, but without ever offering them. I guess sometimes I look at tiny little Monday and forget she's been eating stuff like this all of her life and can handle it.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 16, 2017 12:12:04 GMT -5
The boys are separate from the girls Monday tries to eat them. Monday's old momma though did suggest letting her start one and then offering that to the boys, to get them to see what it's all about.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Nov 16, 2017 12:13:19 GMT -5
If Monday was eating them regularly before coming over here, can I just give them to her as is? Or do you think she'd need to have hers sliced open? And Tinker, learning from mom, same thing?
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Post by Sherry on Nov 16, 2017 12:15:03 GMT -5
Okay, I thought they were one group. It does make a difference. With the turkey necks, you may have to segment and chop a bit. What I do with mine if they are refusing something is that is exactly what they get for the next meal. And the next. And the next lol. And if Monday has been eating bones, your other girl will follow suit.
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