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Post by hiddenstars826 on Aug 2, 2017 10:23:44 GMT -5
Gosh that was a process trying to figure out how to get photos. So, I do have a concern as to if they are TOO thin. They got all carbs cut out (from kibble), they are now eating well but was a BIT iffy at the time of those photos, which were taken about a week and a half ago. But their original weights from May were taken when we'd recently gotten them, so they have increased in activity as well since then. Also, both shedded their coats and now have shorter, summer-type coats since then.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Aug 4, 2017 9:59:16 GMT -5
Sam and Dean got smashed up chicken wings for dinner. WIN! The only time theyve been offered them in the past, it's been a toy to stash in their minds. I'm not sure if they were just ready, or if smashing it a bit helped, but they went right for them like they've done it for ages. The only evidence that I could find this morning was a small piece of the bone. I'm thrilled! They ate an egg readily the other day and I've been decreasing or eliminating the top-dressed Stella and Chewy's. They are eating each meal really well.
I'm ordering again from Hare Today and will add things other than just the fine grinds now. The girls will appreciate chunkier food and I guess the boys are ready!
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Post by LindaM on Aug 4, 2017 12:53:38 GMT -5
Excellent! That's great news. It sounds like things are going swimmingly!
How many proteins have you been able to introduce to them at this stage? Any problems offering either the heart or organ meals?
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Aug 4, 2017 14:27:08 GMT -5
So far for proteins, we've had: Chicken (egg and wings, but the girls have had heart and gizzards also) Turkey (grind) Pheasant as grind (not offered to girls though I don't think) Goose as grind Beef as grind Duck as grind This is the young boys. They have also had salmon and cod in the form of stella and chewys. Peter had been exposed to all except goose before the Hare Today order. The girls have had lots of different things since they grew up on raw. We've not offered heart or other organs yet for the boys. Since they are doing so well I'm only just starting to move them from the fine grinds I'm thinking I may add a new protein or two to my Hare Today order for them all too. Weve got a lot of poultry in here so I need to mix it up a bit.
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Post by LindaM on Aug 4, 2017 15:10:27 GMT -5
Are you going to be doing a full Frankenprey diet? Or Whole Prey diet? Or mix of Frankenprey and Whole Prey? Are you going to continue using Stella & Chewys too? Ferrets definitely need their heart meals and organs meals. This is very, very important, otherwise your menu won't be balanced and can lead to health problems (unless you do a full whole prey menu in which hearts and organs are included). When you are offering a mixed menu, there is a chart that will show you how to make it balanced. Most usually make sure the ferrets are introduced to their heart and organs before even starting on the bone-in as it's easier in the soupie and slivers stages to sneak those in. So if you can get the boys started on those, it'd be great. If you struggle offering hearts or organs, try blending it into a puree first. You can get some nice varieties of hearts from Hare Today too. Some links to help you: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/146/meat-bone-organ-weekly-menuholisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/17989/balancing-frankenprey-diets-prey-grinds
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Aug 5, 2017 0:16:12 GMT -5
The boys haven't really done what I'd call slivers. Just the fine grinds from HT though that can be "chunky" since I don't mix water. Still a fine grind, though. The coarser ones HT offers look like they'll be more of a challenge since they're a bit chunky, but I'm optimistic since these two seem to be fully on board now.
The grinds I have right now are the meat/bone/organ grinds. I'm moving from grinds anyway, except for with Peter, but are those grinds still in need of extra supplementing with heart? And extra organ? Even though I'm moving away from them with the others, Peter is very picky so I have a feeling he may never give up the grinds to more chunky pieces. So I'll have to figure out the best way to get heart into him?
I'd prefer to avoid whole prey. At least for now, but in the future who knows. Except for the occasional mouse. I hear Monday loves her mice, so who am I to deny that?
Where I'll probably continue offering S&C occasionally, I do not want to use it regularly any longer. Peter's poop looks SO much better since he's moved to these grinds, and this stuff is less expensive and there is less waste. The S&C would soak to a funny texture sometimes and he'd refuse it, plus where I've cut out chicken from him it makes it tough to ensure the S&C doesn't contain it each time I get a new supply. I'll offer it sometimes as the whole group enjoys it and it's super convenient to bring to work or on the go but I wanted badly to stop relying on that stuff for a long while.
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Post by LindaM on Aug 5, 2017 0:57:54 GMT -5
No, if the grinds are balanced, you don't need to do extra hearts or organs. But as you start moving to slivers, chunks and bone-in meals, you need to start offering them to keep the diet balanced.
I was asking because you mentioned Sam and Dean had smashed up chicken wings last night for dinner, which isn't a grind. So if that means you are doing Frankenprey meals like that during the week, along with doing meals of grinds, then you will want to start making a rudimentary menu for now to balance it using that chart I linked to above. As you get them to eat more proteins and in the other stages, like chunks of muscle and bone-in, your menu will keep getting refined more and more.
That link on the Balancing chart above will come in handy for you, because it really does sound like you want to do a Frankenprey menu but with the occasional grind (S&C counts as a grind) or mouse (whole prey) thrown in.
With the S&C, the different proteins have different textures.. I've tried all the proteins, so I've felt and worked with them all, there is a very noticeable difference in texture between some of them. But yes, it does do really well to keep as an emergency or travel food source, that's for sure.
If they take fine to the chunky grinds once you get those, you can start adding a few tiny slivers in with it and over time increase the slivers and decrease the grinds in the bowl until it's just slivers.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 22, 2017 22:20:22 GMT -5
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Aug 30, 2017 8:39:07 GMT -5
I haven't updated in a bit, sorry! Got a little crazy here and posting went by the wayside. The boys are doing GREAT. Sammy loves his bone, Dean not so much but is getting better. Organ meals is the reverse! Dean does great and Sam not so much. The bone has been awesome for Sam, he is the one who will chew up crochet eggs if he has access to them in his cage. Having the bones gives him something to chew on that's safe. Hearing and seeing them crunch away sure is cute.
I dont think I've been smashing the bones enough for the baby though, so I have to do that better. She starts to eat them but is backing off of her bone meals.
I haven't been feeding them enough though I guess. Oops. I've increased quantities though. They were scarfing their food down quickly but I think we've fixed that problem with adding more.
Thanks for checking in!
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Aug 31, 2017 11:07:21 GMT -5
The cat, on the other hand, I'm ready to throw in the towel with. Ever since we've transitioned her, shes vomited more frequently, packed a TON of weight on, and is constantly underfoot looking for food. The vomiting was every once in a while before this, and I'd FINALLY gotten her to a good weight. But I'm *this close* to putting her back on her old diet and while I know its not as good as raw, I'm about to the point where I just cannot take it. She's so bad about feeding time that I am tripping over her every time I go to the refridgerator or try to feed everyone else, and even if I'm standing right next to it I cannot take my hands off of a food bowl or her face is in it. She's voracious, and I have NEVER had this problem until the past few months. I've been dealing with that issue, as frustrating as it is (because she's constantly eating Peter's food as soon as he walks away from it), but the vomiting is what I am done with. I can mop my tile floors...but this is the third time in only a couple of weeks that she's vomited up everything she's eaten all over my carpet. I just cannot have raw meat seeping into my carpets!!! I'm losing my mind! Of course, now that I've written that she's happy as a clam chewing up a bone-in chunk of chicken. Anywho. While the girls and younger boys are doing well and making progress, Peter has backtracked quite a bit. More belly troubles have left him again exceedingly picky about what he will eat. Currently the only thing I can get him to eat is Stella and Chewy's freeze-dried. I have a finely ground "soup" mixture of a bunch of flavors from a friend, and then the turkey and I have to pound up the turkey bites to as fine as possible and well-soak. He's finally eating this stuff, but not tons, but at least he's willing to eat it and I'm not fighting it. I've been trying to stick small amounts of his grinds in there but that's not being well-received, it seems to be texture. At the moment, I can't/don't want to push him with it so he's getting as much of the Stella and Chewy's in as possible. We're having a lot of trouble regulating his BG, made worse by the fact that he fights about taking meds so who knows what's going into him. We're caught between a rock and a hard place here, and it's weighing pretty heavily on my mind. He's been a little more active and especially since he's eating more than last week, I'm hoping his appointment tomorrow will bring good news. We increased his meds last week but I still think we're going to have to go up again and I'm not sure how he's going to handle that Since going back to the Stella and Chewy's, his poops are VERY bulky and few and far between. I'm not comfortable with that at all...I don't remember this being an issue when previously fed it (he was on that exclusively for a few years before Hare Today grinds were added in). They were reasonably sized, not tiny but not bulky looking. We moved to the Hare Today and they got a bit smaller, better consistency. He pooped like a normal ferret- every 4 hours or so. Now, he's back on the Stella and Chewy's and while I know its somewhat to do with the fact that he's not eating as much as he should be, I'd expect that his poops would still be frequent throughout the day?! Even though he ate well last night, he pooped once last night at about 8:15pm and there was nothing in his cage overnight (just pee), and he pooped this morning at about 10:00a. Both bulky, maybe slightly smaller in diameter than a sharpie marker (sorry no real way to think to compare!), the same *quantity* that he typically has always pooped. But he definitely was straining a bit on this one. The pooping thing worries me. The poops are not hard, not dark dark (probably normal coloration for him). Just...bulky.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 4, 2017 13:53:09 GMT -5
Peter seems marginally better the last few days, we readjusted his meds. I'm going to start adding a little bit of his Hare Today grinds into his S&C here and there to see how we do.
Today is prep and portion day here again, and I'm still trying to figure out the best and easiest way to do it. Mike got me a chest freezer last month, yayyyyy! Which makes things easier in terms of stockpiling.
We're also doing weight checks later too.
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Post by FireAngel on Sept 4, 2017 14:08:30 GMT -5
That is great! Yes his poops will be less frequent if he is eating less. If it is possible for you try to feed him every 2-4 hours. You do not have to force feed him just offer it to him, it is likely he will take at least a few bites just to please you and that is btter than him not eating at all.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 4, 2017 16:41:52 GMT -5
Oh yes, he's definitely humoring me. His BG on Friday was up though, and he gained a tiny bit of weight (he dropped from 1.58kg to 1.3kg in about 3 or 4 weeks and is now back to 1.32). It's not a LOT, and frankly I'd rather him stay where is is weight wise, but it confirms that he's eating.
The boys are chowing on some kind of carcass today, not sure if turkey or duck. They were happy to have it regardless! It's so fun to see them eat it since a few months ago you would have thought I was poisoning them!
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Post by Sherry on Sept 5, 2017 7:43:05 GMT -5
With kitty, how much is he eating in a day? The vomiting to be honest will likely carry on for a while as he gets all the fur out of his tummy. I have had it go on for 3 months or more.
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Post by hiddenstars826 on Sept 5, 2017 9:54:00 GMT -5
Oh god don't tell me that! She gets about 100-110 grams per day in 3 meals, plus whatever she scrounges from the ferrets. I'm feeding her 3x a day. The vomiting is driving me crazy. I make sure her food is room temp, I don't feed her when she's frantic I wait until she relaxes (otherwise up it comes), she doesn't go without eating so her stomach isn't empty. But it's at least once or twice a week she regurgitates her food immediately, and NEVER on my kitchen floor always the carpet of course. My carpet probably is a mini petri dish right now. I'm finding hairballs maybe once a week or every other week as well, in addition to whatever food she's already sending back up.
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