|
Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 19:54:50 GMT -5
He had another seizure last night. Poor baby :C I worry so much about him
Today I exchanged the kibble for soup. It is currently thawing but we shall see how this goes!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 0:19:53 GMT -5
Oh no, that's horrible! Poor Jack! How is he feeling after that? ;~; I used to have a cat and a dog who had seizures. It's terrifying every single time.
Good luck with the soup ~! ^^
|
|
|
Post by katt on Mar 3, 2016 0:33:34 GMT -5
Arwen, are you Arwen Scotts on the Frontier Ferrets FB page? I just connected the dots....! :rofl: I'm Katt Crouch
|
|
|
Post by katt on Mar 3, 2016 0:35:34 GMT -5
I'm sorry Jack isn't doing well How much are you home during the day? IF at all possible (at least when you are home), try hand feeding him a small amount of raw soupies every 3-4 hours. The more frequently he eats the more stable his BG will stay. It's hard when you have to work and do other normal life-things, but if anyone is at home and can make sure he eats that should help at least a little bit.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 1:26:08 GMT -5
I am Arwen Scotts!
I am currently home during the day so I will start hand feeding him until he eats more on his own
Today I switched out the food and ever Loki ate from it willingly, I just need to figure out the Ferret to Cube ratio to keep them fed
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 15:41:37 GMT -5
Today I woke up to the bowl completely empty and Miss Loki licking the bottom Asking for more!
I will be beginning to hand feed Jack today to stabilize him. His vet has been called and I am awaiting him to call me back about his medications.
I will be thawing 6 cubes for 4 ferrets. I'll weigh it once thawed
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 15:57:12 GMT -5
Loki eating the Soup on her own!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 20:33:56 GMT -5
SO discussing Jack's next course of action, The vet informed me he highly believes Jack may be going Septic from the diet, as he is unable to fight off the bacteria as well as my other ferrets can. He encouraged the diet, especially for my other ferrets, but urged me to be careful with Jack while he's on a Immune suppressant.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2016 21:12:51 GMT -5
Finding an empty bowl shows that they are doing very well without the kibble now and know that the soup is clean. Definitely try giving them some slivers in the soup and see who they go ~ I'm still not very knowledgable on the medications used for ferrets with Insulinoma, so we'll wait for Katt to give her opinion. There have been any ferrets who have had Insulinoma and been on medications who have successfully transitioned to raw. Just take things slow so you can watch him, and I'm sure Jack should be alright when it comes to the raw diet.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Mar 4, 2016 14:16:39 GMT -5
SO discussing Jack's next course of action, The vet informed me he highly believes Jack may be going Septic from the diet, as he is unable to fight off the bacteria as well as my other ferrets can. He encouraged the diet, especially for my other ferrets, but urged me to be careful with Jack while he's on a Immune suppressant. Ummm no. First of all, if he was septic you would know - he would be very, very, VERY sick. Raw diet is HANDS DOWN the BEST thing you could possibly do for an insulinomic ferret. Some ferrets have even been able to be weaned off of pred after starting raw because their BG is under so much better control. Granted, that is always only temporary because insu is a progressive disease, and they inevitably continue to worsen. Regardless, you don't see kibble ferrets getting weaned off of pred for any amount of time... Anyways, if he were on a decent sized dose of steroids he would be somewhat immunosuppressed. But no, he isn't going to become septic from eating a healthy raw diet. The odds of that happening are like 1 in 9 bazillion. Impossible? No. Likely? Definitely not. His stomach is very acidic, and this will kills most of the bacteria in the first run. Then, the ferret GI tract is very short, which means that bacteria really don't have much time to latch on and start brewing. Additionally, on a raw diet he will be better nourished, have better BG control, and be overall healthier with a STRONGER immune system than he would have otherwise. Not to mention kibble is commonly contaminated with bacteria itself, and is WAY less regulated than human grade meat sources. So if he is going to get sick from bacteria from his food, he is going to be at risk no matter what he eats, and I would argue his risk is higher on kibble. I hate contradicting vets, but even well trained professionals can have misconceptions. I had a vet who was brilliant with exotics, amazing doc for reptiles and birds, pretty darn great at other animals.... He refused to believe that Koda could possibly have adrenal disease at 18 months, despite the fact that Dr. Frederickson, the best ferret vet in Anchorage (likely in the state - though I've heard word there is a vet in Girdwood who may be a tough competitor lol) agreed that Koda was adrenal. This other vet was very fixated on the idea that Koda could have mange....MANGE. I'm like first of all, look at how luxurious he is - does this ferrets seriously look like he has mange?! I don't think so. Second of all, mange doesn't make you spend hours mounting your cage mate (poor Kenai lol) until he is crying...... THIRD of all, mange symptoms would not just magically go away upon getting the Deslorelin implant. lol There is so much bad hype against raw diets, all largely originating from the kibble companies and companies (like AVMA) that have it in with the kibble companies. Profit profit profit. Sadly, the spread of so much misinformation has had pretty devastating results and a wide array of misconceptions. As another example, I had one vet (very begrudgingly granted) admit that raw may indeed be the best diet for ferrets, but they would never DREAM of letting a cat eat anything raw....I'm like...they are BOTH OBLIGATE CARNIVORES with almost IDENTICAL dietary requirements....!!!! You can't say raw is good for one but not the other, that is entirely illogical. Moral of the story is, I would personally advise continuing the raw diet for Jack. It is really his best chance at whatever longevity you can squeeze out of his poor little pancreas. :/ I'll tag Heather and Sherry to weigh in as well, since it's always nice to hear from more than one source, and they have both personally had several insu ferrets that they have switched to raw. I will also tag maja01 who is actually a vet student overseas.
|
|
|
Post by katt on Mar 4, 2016 14:20:27 GMT -5
When you were at the vet did they recheck his BG? What was it?
|
|
|
Post by Sherry on Mar 4, 2016 14:44:34 GMT -5
I have had two ferrets with insulinoma, several with lymphomas, and one uncontrollable IBD. All had/have pred, and all raw fed after with no issues Also, my IBD lad wound up on a high dose of Imuran for 7-8 months before he had to be helped to cross due to his IBD getting worse when nothing helped. Imuran is also a chemo drug. So if any ferret would have been compromised it would have been my Boris. The raw diet is what kept them ALL going for as long as they did
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2016 15:10:56 GMT -5
I go to the vet today to get his BG checked and possibly his meds adjusted. I'll let you all know how that goes
I don't think he's septic myself, I think his tumors are progressing. Hopefully we'll just get him adjusted and back on the right track
|
|
|
Post by maja01 on Mar 4, 2016 15:46:49 GMT -5
It is possible, veeeeeeeery much unlikely.
The food should have been infected and with high load of bacteria (farmed chicken would be one such possible source). And a ferret should have been on imunosupressant dose of corticosteroids (or other immunosupressant drugs - like for instance cyclosporine, immuran, chemotherapy, ...) for a long period of time, wich in cases of insulinoma ususaly is not. Doses to maintain blood glucose are us (even tough the dose would be high it would not be for such a long time) ually lower and not immunosupressive (but since I don't know the dose he is on, it might be as well be as high). Because of supressed immune system such ferret would be unable to batle the bacterial load with which healthy ferrets would have no problems at all.
Still, even tought both of this would be true, the chance to acctualy get an infection is rather small.
I have fed ferrets with insulinoma, lymphoma and gastric or eneteric problems raw food and have never encountered any problems. I would just suggest - if ferret is really immunosupressed, to use some precautions in handling raw meat (for instance feed as much as he eats = no left overs, to toroughly clean all kitcehn utensilies used with dezinficients, ...).
I would definetly keep him on raw, since it will help him a lot with maintaining his glucose levels.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Mar 4, 2016 16:20:21 GMT -5
I've treated a number of ferrets that have been on pred and some were very ill. The one thing that allowed them a much longer time was the raw diet. With insulinoma, it allows them to have a stable BG. Something kibble cannot do. The quality of life that Fun-Go got because of the raw was huge. He was on 1mg of pred daily (BID). I've fed a number of lymphoma and cancer ferrets a raw diet with no ill effects from the diet and if anything the vets were astounded as to their appearance of well being despite being so ill. Ciao Heather
|
|