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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 17:44:39 GMT -5
One thing to consider even barring the mink x ferret deal (we cannot mix mink and ferret over here, the American mink does it's own thing and eats ferrets)....you've mentioned DEW, panda, blaze and silver all in that line. Too me and to many others this is a huge warning bell as to historically speaking these are "undesirable markers" in a breeding program. Just because they're not Waardenburg doesn't mean that you're going to be able to steer clear of other breeding flaws (Irish spotting, which is what a panda and DEW is)for long. ciao As far as I know, a mink-ferret hybrid hasn't been bred before in the UK but the was an experiment many years ago to see of polecat-mink hybrids were possible, the result was very aggressive, static shocked looking, waterproof polecats that were infertile because of an odd chromosome number. When I first found out about Vinnie's lines, after I found out he wasn't vesectomised when he should have been. I was worried about the kits he would have since Nancy and Whisper were pregnant by him but nothing strange occurred and he produced albinos and sables without white markings and the odd silver.
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Post by crazylady on Feb 12, 2016 17:45:58 GMT -5
Hi as Heather has said when you give the colours that's in there ( silver panda, cinnamon blaze, Dew and albino ) it looks like you have dodged a bullet ferrets when breeding can hide a lot of traits but it pops up a couple of breeding's down the line for example I once took in a sandy hob ( my son fell in love with him )when he was two I noticed on the daily inspection one testicle seemed slightly swollen so I took him to the vet and told her to castrate him as I was not happy two hours later I received a phone call to tell me he had cancer all over his body when they opened him up I told her to let him go this ferret showed no signs of illness he was eating and running all over the place I called the breeder and told him what had been found his reply was oh I know all the males from that litter have died from the same thing but the females are fine ! yes fine to continue passing on problems to future male kits ! take care bye for now Bev
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Post by crazylady on Feb 12, 2016 17:47:25 GMT -5
I forgot to add mink x ferrets are being bred in the uk they are sold for top money as black selfs ! take care bye for now Bev
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 19:35:46 GMT -5
Hi as Heather has said when you give the colours that's in there ( silver panda, cinnamon blaze, Dew and albino ) it looks like you have dodged a bullet ferrets when breeding can hide a lot of traits but it pops up a couple of breeding's down the line for example I once took in a sandy hob ( my son fell in love with him )when he was two I noticed on the daily inspection one testicle seemed slightly swollen so I took him to the vet and told her to castrate him as I was not happy two hours later I received a phone call to tell me he had cancer all over his body when they opened him up I told her to let him go this ferret showed no signs of illness he was eating and running all over the place I called the breeder and told him what had been found his reply was oh I know all the males from that litter have died from the same thing but the females are fine ! yes fine to continue passing on problems to future male kits ! take care bye for now Bev That's very unfortunate about your sandy hob and very unfair since his breeder knew.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 19:41:07 GMT -5
I forgot to add mink x ferrets are being bred in the uk they are sold for top money as black selfs ! take care bye for now Bev I've seen black selfs for sale but didn't know they were mink hybrids, I was tempted to get one but decided not to, I'm glad I didn't, I've heard that mink have a very nasty bite when they're grumpy.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 12, 2016 19:59:15 GMT -5
I agree. I get a shiver up my spine when I hear all those combinations in one line. That is what has led to what problems we are now having here.
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Post by Sherry on Feb 12, 2016 20:01:18 GMT -5
And FF- Bev would most likely have taken that sandy in purely as a rescue as she ONLY breeds true albinos, and sables.
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Post by maja01 on Feb 13, 2016 13:26:59 GMT -5
No, it is not possible to "carry mink" without being a mink hybrid. It can be very low % hybrid, very diluted, but is still a hybrid. Polecat's and ferrets have different no. of chromosomes than steppe polecats or ei minks, but they can still reproduce successefully. It is something about the same genetic code wich is rearanged to different no. of chromosomes. I guess it was on of Bob Church's articles where I was reading about. Ferret and steppe polecat offspring is viable and able to reproduce, i think is same for eu minks. But i know that of first generation hybrids with sibirian polecat/weasel only females can reproduce, males are sterile.
I don't know exactly how Peter Herzog (von Herzogshoff ferrets) really got blackselfs, the word is about minks being crossed in. But he is the main "source" of blackselfs. Those ferrets are said to have different genetic problems (cryptorchids, lymphoma, heart problems,...). Lately there are also diferent other colours of self patern, mainly chocolate. Since there is a large part of eu breeders to whom colour is most important. The fancy colours and angoras are on the rise here in Europe, sadly. It is really a problem to get a ferret from clean short non fancy lines. If you even want only (dark) sables among ancestors... well there are only few breeders left (i am excluding UK since i am not that familiar from the scene there).
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Post by crazylady on Feb 14, 2016 11:38:46 GMT -5
Hi I saw many black selfs in Denmark but I was told no no they are sables it was only after the show when I confronted the owner of a great number of them that they came clean yes there was mink in the line ( no they did not win lol) I can quiet easily pick out they eyes and head shape of a self along with the severe denseness of a short coat ( think mink coat ) and in some cases they have a web between the toes selfs are all over the world they do not have good temperaments and life spans have yet to be established ( after all mink are lucky if they make it to a year in farms and this is where minks to be bred from are obtained ) at the moment in the uk the breeders tack on the EU name as in oh yes its from an EU polecat mix I often look and simply think sure it is lol after all isn't England classed as Europe to some people lol and believe it or not they actually pay extra money for a common or garden English poley England also has angora breeders but the % of kits raised to be sold is minute they breed 6 or 7 jills and are lucky if half a dozen kits make it to saleable age then the parents are speyed and sold on as pets nature has decreed that the angora should not be ( the mother cannot feed her babies ) yet man has decided they are a good money maker and breeds a normal ferret at the same time the kits are discarded and she feeds the cash crop of angoras ! as long as there is a demand the practice will continue and sadly the ferret will suffer just my two pennies worth take care bye for now Bev
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 12:09:41 GMT -5
Hi I saw many black selfs in Denmark but I was told no no they are sables it was only after the show when I confronted the owner of a great number of them that they came clean yes there was mink in the line ( no they did not win lol) I can quiet easily pick out they eyes and head shape of a self along with the severe denseness of a short coat ( think mink coat ) and in some cases they have a web between the toes selfs are all over the world they do not have good temperaments and life spans have yet to be established ( after all mink are lucky if they make it to a year in farms and this is where minks to be bred from are obtained ) at the moment in the uk the breeders tack on the EU name as in oh yes its from an EU polecat mix I often look and simply think sure it is lol after all isn't England classed as Europe to some people lol and believe it or not they actually pay extra money for a common or garden English poley England also has angora breeders but the % of kits raised to be sold is minute they breed 6 or 7 jills and are lucky if half a dozen kits make it to saleable age then the parents are speyed and sold on as pets nature has decreed that the angora should not be ( the mother cannot feed her babies ) yet man has decided they are a good money maker and breeds a normal ferret at the same time the kits are discarded and she feeds the cash crop of angoras ! as long as there is a demand the practice will continue and sadly the ferret will suffer just my two pennies worth take care bye for now Bev It always seems unfair on jills that have to nurse angora kits, especially those that already have kits, I imagine that it stresses them out a lot I've not handled a black self but I've seen them, they're hair looks a little like its stood on end constantly, not all of them but most so I'm assuming that's the mink side of them. Bandit is definitely a polecat, I know that for sure, I got her from a small wildlife conservation based Shropshire that breeds polecats and releases them into the wild when they're old enough because polecats aren't as common as they were 100s of years ago. Polecats are starting to make a great comeback now hopefully pine martens will do the same, they've made a bit of a comeback but not as fast as the polecats have, without pine martens, we won't have red squirrels. (Still haven't seen a red squirrel yet but hope to do so ) Bandit was far too small as a kit to be released into the wild, smaller than the average runt so I brought her and she fits in well with my fuzzy business
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Post by maja01 on Feb 16, 2016 7:18:53 GMT -5
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