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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 19:42:37 GMT -5
Forgot to mention - the vet said he had a slightly irregular heart beat as well.
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Post by Heather on Nov 18, 2015 21:10:20 GMT -5
I wonder if he's like Boris. I'm not saying it is but Boris had some serious heart issues. We started out treating the enlarged heart and the fluid. There was nothing we could do for the murmur. I never saw him move like your boy but one day while I was watching he suddenly, in mid play, keeled over. I've seen enough fakes and ferret play to know it wasn't normal. By the time I got to him Napoleon had picked him up and slammed him on the floor 2 maybe 3 times. I'd never seen a ferret respond to another ferret's collapse like that. Napoleon was my alpha. he'd never acted in this manner. I picked up Boris and realized his mouth was blueish, nose white and I could find no heart beat, no respiration. I rubbed him quickly, knowing there was much I could do for him. A cough, a choke and he was breathing again. I rushed him to the vet. He had a serious arrhythmia, it had caught up with him that day and if I'd not been there or maybe Napoleon had it right and it had happened before (stranger things have been known to happen) but we then treated that. With all his heart conditions as well as some skull issues (he was a genetic mess), we were able to give him 3 extra years. He might have been able to live longer but he'd been diagnosed with adrenal and was being treated with the implant when they got a shortage. He could fight all these issues as long as we were treating them properly. He didn't respond to the Lupron and the decision was made when he finally stopped fighting to allow him to be free to become a rainbow kid ciao
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Post by unclejoe on Nov 19, 2015 8:32:07 GMT -5
Napolean did CPR on him Not much you can do for arrhythmia or murmur. Pacemaker or open heart surgery.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 19, 2015 11:26:23 GMT -5
I had heard of elephants doing that to infants who's hearts aren't going at birth, and a chimp doing that, but that is the first time I'd heard of it with ferrets.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 12:12:27 GMT -5
could this be a TAURINE deficiency?? Taurine works as a neurotransmitter aid to facilitate communication between the brain and muscles. It supports the proper development of neurons used by the central nervous system. It also pairs well with retinol -- the animal form of vitamin A that supports the photoreceptor cells in the retina. In the heart, it helps to strengthen the pumping muscle and prevent enlarged heart disease.
could this be the cause?
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Post by Heather on Nov 19, 2015 12:14:08 GMT -5
I will be honest, I'd never heard of it in ferrets....they'd sooner kill each other than help. Maybe, Napoleon was ticked because the game was over too suddenly....I will certainly never know. True carnivore generally are not good with others being ill. I've seen a business turn on a sicky. Now, the meds that were given seemed to help prevent these episodes. I agree a pacemaker might have been an alternative but I've only heard of one successfully implanted and I don't know if that was successful or not but it did buy the ferret some extra time (not even a year) ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 22:08:28 GMT -5
Heather - That's a really interesting thing that happened to Boris...Lou hasn't just stopped like that but I also am not with him all the time, I wonder if it's happened while I'm gone.
Got word back from the vet on his tests, and she said we are ditching the heart disease theory. She said now the options are between pneumonia, cancer, or aleutian disease. She said he fits the symptoms of aleutian disease best, but there is no cure and not treatments either, so we are going to look into treating for the other options just in case. The vet is looking into prices for antibiotics for pneumonia and steroids for cancer. His liver levels are also very high in every area, which could be an indication of an infection. I could get tests done to see which problem, or problems, he actually has but my vet said that her primary concern right now is getting some weight on him which I agree with. She said it doesn't matter what we feed him as long as he's eating and gaining weight. I bought some blue cat food which I'm prepping for him by soaking (he has a cavity and crunching kibble is difficult for him), and will be giving him that later tonight.
At this point my primary goal is to get some weight on him and go from there. If he can't gain any weight my boyfriend and I are going to have to start talking about plans for how long he will live.
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Post by Heather on Nov 19, 2015 22:47:03 GMT -5
If he has ADV you need to test. This is a no brainer as the disease is terribly infectious and continues to contaminate months after the ferret is gone. It also means that if you have other ferrets that they're infected as well and you cannot bring in any other ferret until you're clear. This is a simple test and you can get answers in a few days. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 2:54:11 GMT -5
I'll look into tests later...Lou has stopped eating completely today it seems. I watched him chew on a chicken wing last night and the appropriate amount was eaten this morning, but just now I offered him egg, fresh chicken, soggy kibble, and ferrovite (I know, but any sustance is better than none) and he ate the ferrovite and drank a lot of chicken juice (always been his favorite), but that was all. I watched him drink some water but he never went for any of the food. I just finished trying to syringe feed him but he caught on and started clenching his teeth. I did try scruffing him, but he's so frail I felt like I was doing more harm. He has also just generally declined, and very significantly. Basically we'll see how he does over the next 24 hours. I'm going to keep syringe feeding every few hours, I'm going to try to see if I can bring him to work tomorrow although I'm a cashier, I might just have to take a sick day. I almost feel guilty going to bed tonight, but I can't do anything for him while he sleeps. If his condition gets much worse than this, I think it might be time for him to go. Keeping my fingers crossed that he pulls through
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 9:38:00 GMT -5
That sounds sad and serious! No experience with that really in ferrets, I'm sure others will have better advice, but for the sake of maybe finding answers, I can elaborate on similar symptoms with my cat: He had started going blind do to cataracts in both eyes. Same thing, not getting around easily, bumping into walls. Eventually did not play with the other cats anymore. Walked funny and we had to keep bringing food to him because it seemed like the obstacle of getting there was just too much. He also hangs his mouth open now a lot, especially when he's walking and sniffing around. I'm assuming just to heighten his sense of smell for navigation? Anyway, hope that helps in some way! Good luck, I'm sure others here or the vet will help you with a solid diagnosis! Yes - cats have special scent glands on their tongue/in their mouth.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 9:49:30 GMT -5
I really don't have enough experience on ferret illnesses to give you any advice on that front. Only that I think a deaf and now suddenly blind ferret would need to learn how to balance again (imagine a taking away a human's senses, they would also be struggling to figure out how to not fall over) but finding out why he suddenly went blind is important IMO because the blindness is likely just a symptom and not the disease.
As for cat foods - Orijen is great, and by far the best kibble on the market if you need to add a kibble to his diet. I feed it to my cats and Rolo has it in his cage, and they are all soft as silk and smell wonderful.
Also someone earlier mentioned tourine deficiency and it does cause blindness in cats, and I would imagine it would do the same in ferrets.
This is from small animal channel: Deficiencies in certain amino acids can cause serious problems. Taurine is required for normal heart muscle and eye function. A diet that does not have enough taurine can cause the heart to stretch and enlarge (dilated cardiomyopathy). This can lead to congestive heart failure and death. In the eye, a low taurine diet can cause blindness from central retinal degeneration.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 10:54:34 GMT -5
Maybe it is pneumonia, which is bad enough. Hope little fella gets to doing better. Because it is difficult to get hearts at store other than Tyson's, which is a big joke. I order mine online from Pekin Paradise I also get chicken hearts from farmer's market. Yes, make sure little one gets his heart meals. www.farmfreshduck.com/Hearts give my babies diarrhea, but so does egg. I just give it to them anyway.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 20, 2015 11:39:54 GMT -5
Looks like the ADV test is no longer quite as simple. Avecon ADV Antibody ELISA Test As of September 2013 Avecon Diagnostics will no longer be accepting saliva samples for ELISA testing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 12:06:28 GMT -5
Here is information for people in United States. www.ferret.org/read/CEP_testing.htmlwww.ferret.org/events/advpolicy.htmlBlue Cross CEP Test: The CEP test is a blood test. You can obtain the sample yourself without having to see a veterinarian, or if you feel more comfortable, you can have the blood drawn by your vet. (Please note: if you have your vet draw the blood for you, you should still send the sample to Blue Cross yourself. If your vet submits the sample, you may not be able to obtain the original lab result certificate from your vet, AND, vets tend to charge much more than you will pay if you send the sample in.) If you choose to collect your own sample, it can be achieved by clipping your ferret’s claw through the ‘quick,’ causing it to bleed. For testing instructions, call Blue Cross at (208) 678-5553 or see instructions courtesy of the American Ferret Association. ($10.00 for each sample --I think you need 2 samples) Don't think I could handle cutting ferret's claw through the quick. But vet could do it and then you send vials yourself it says for cheaper.
Ontario Vet College may have some info. (Univ. of Guelph)
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Post by Sherry on Nov 21, 2015 11:23:32 GMT -5
If all you need is a drop, instead of "quicking", I would assume a decent drop from a toe pad would work just as well.
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