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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 15:23:25 GMT -5
Just like a child....will make a liar out of me! He is eating again. However, I think he may be getting down to a total of about 8 oz. a day. I count the mice as two equals 1 oz. He is up running around tormenting the cat this morning. Yes. I would think four ferrets would keep you busy. The most I have had at one were three. They had their own bedroom. If I had left three of them out all day, my house would have been destroyed. Your ferrets are adorable.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 14, 2015 22:08:39 GMT -5
I'm so glad he was just taking a little break! (dance) My daughter is 18 and has so far decided not to go to college so I figure soon enough she will want to be out on her own and they will get her room! :heehee: Thank you, I personally think they are the adorablest! lol Ok couple of more questions: 1.) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe? 2.) How much can a ferret's appetite and weight change seasonally? 3.) Is it better to give your ferrets set meal times, or to leave food out all day for free-feeding access, and why?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 0:59:23 GMT -5
1.) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe? Cooked bones are more apt to splinter than raw bones. 2.) How much can a ferret's appetite and weight change seasonally? 40%3.) Is it better to give your ferrets set meal times, or to leave food out all day for free-feeding access, and why? I know that most people are feeding twice a day about 12 hours apart. Since Teddy is a kit, I make food available to him all the time. I have always provided free feed to all my ferrets. They digest their food so quickly, I believe they can get hungry often. Also, in the past I have had ferrets with insulinoma and I never wanted them to be without food. I know that those who feed twice a day put out enough food to last for a while. With me being home I feed Teddy more often so the food does not sit out for long. Plus, Teddy likes his mice a little frozen. With the high rate of metabolism I believe it is best for them to have food at all times. If they were in the wild, they would hunt, eat, then stash what is left to munch on later. I try to mimic this.
Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18643/marcias-switching-thread-fireangel-hurricanekatt?page=9#ixzz3irOUtT1Q
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2015 1:05:30 GMT -5
I made out a menu tonight for next week to decrease his daily amount to 8 oz. instead of 10 oz.
He would get 1 oz. of mice per day and 7 oz. raw meat per day. So for 49 oz. of meat per week, he would get 5 oz. heart, 2.5 oz. liver, 2.5 oz. kidney, 30 oz. bone-in, and 9 oz. no bone (muscle meat). Plus, 0.05 ml of salmon oil per day. And 1 egg yolk per week. I have Vaseline and pureed pumpkin on hand in case of a blockage.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 15, 2015 21:48:13 GMT -5
1.) Why are cooked bones dangerous and raw bones safe? Cooked bones are more apt to splinter than raw bones. Correct and this causes an increase risk of choking or damage not to mention the loss of nutritional value.2.) How much can a ferret's appetite and weight change seasonally? 40% Yes
3.) Is it better to give your ferrets set meal times, or to leave food out all day for free-feeding access, and why? I know that most people are feeding twice a day about 12 hours apart. Since Teddy is a kit, I make food available to him all the time. I have always provided free feed to all my ferrets. They digest their food so quickly, I believe they can get hungry often. Also, in the past I have had ferrets with insulinoma and I never wanted them to be without food. I know that those who feed twice a day put out enough food to last for a while. With me being home I feed Teddy more often so the food does not sit out for long. Plus, Teddy likes his mice a little frozen. With the high rate of metabolism I believe it is best for them to have food at all times. If they were in the wild, they would hunt, eat, then stash what is left to munch on later. I try to mimic this. Yes it is best to leave food for them all day (free feeding) for the exact reasons you said! Nice job! :goodjob:The menu you posted looks good percentage wise and I know you do a decent variety. Did you mean 0.5ml, cause I'm thinking 0.05mls would be really hard to measure out! :heehee: (unless you're using an insulin or tuberculin syringe...)
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Post by katt on Aug 15, 2015 23:46:32 GMT -5
VitD supplements are not necessary. As long as his diet is properly balanced and has a good variety, there is no need for supplements of any kind. You've done great on the quiz Q's and menu. Heather has to approve your final menu for graduation so we will submit that to her. You have done a great job with your little one - he will thank you (although part of that thanks might be some mouse guts leftover just for you but..... ).
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 16, 2015 9:59:22 GMT -5
I'd like a final menu reflecting the variety you feed Teddy to submit to Heather for graduation please. You have done great! Here are your final exam questions, (I'm sure you will fly through them!) 1.) Does freezing degrade taurine? 2.) In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be speficic) 3.) Give 2 examples each of muscle meat, edible bones, and organs. 4.) How can you tell if your ferret is too fat? 5.) Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 16:45:52 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 16:48:21 GMT -5
I think he prefers me to remove the mouse intestines for him, then serve the mouse on china.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 17:15:57 GMT -5
1.) Does freezing degrade taurine? Yes. Meats should not be frozen longer than a month. That being said, I ordered 5 lbs. of turkey hearts and ground them up, placed in ice cube trays to equal 1 oz. each, and refroze. If I don't use all of this within a month, should I supplement with taurine powder? I can order smaller amounts to avoid this happening. I worry about him getting enough taurine. Also, I know many people give a probiotic. What is your opinion on this?
2.) In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be speficic) Bone meal or dry, crushed eggshell in the amount of 1/2 tsp to 3/4 tsp. per ferret.3.) Give 2 examples each of muscle meat, edible bones, and organs. muscle meat examples: heart, gizzard. edible bone examples: meat with bones in it like a chicken wing or ground quail frames or a mouse with bones small enough for the ferret to crunch. organ examples: heart, liver, pancreas, kidney
4.) How can you tell if your ferret is too fat? Pee on belly, hind leg weakness. Teddy has pee on his belly a lot. BUT, his appetite is dropping off now so I think I may see him slimming down soon. However, he shows NO weakness in hind legs. I know when I have had ferrets on Prednisone, they have presented a bell-shaped abdomen.
5.) Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats? Ferrets get energy from fat. I try to feed fattier meats like duck.
Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/18643/marcias-switching-thread-fireangel-hurricanekatt?page=9#ixzz3j1Bwo4rm
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 18:05:00 GMT -5
Teddy's current menu:
MONDAY AM: .5 oz. 1 adult mouse 2 oz. ground quail frames .5 oz. pork kidney .5 oz. turkey liver .5 ml salmon oil
MONDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse 3 oz. ground duck meat with bone 1 oz. turkey heart
TUESDAY AM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. turkey liver 1 oz. turkey breast .5 oz. turkey heart 1 oz. ground lamb meat with bone .5 ml salmon oil
TUESDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. pork kidney 3.5 oz. ground chicken frames
WEDNESDAY AM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse 1 oz. turkey heart 2 oz. ground duck meat with bone .5 ml salmon oil
WEDNESDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. pork kidney 1.5 oz. turkey breast 2 oz. ground quail frames
THURSDAY AM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse 1 oz. turkey heart 2 oz. ground lamb meat with bone .5 ml. salmon oil
THURSDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. pork kidney 1.5 oz. chicken breast 2 oz. ground chicken frames
FRIDAY AM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse 1 oz. turkey heart 2 oz. ground duck meat with bone .5 ml. salmon oil
FRIDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. turkey liver 2 oz. ground quail frames 1.5 oz. chicken breast
SATURDAY AM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. turkey liver 1 oz. turkey breast 1.5 oz. ground chicken frames .5 ml salmon oil
SATURDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. pork kidney .5 oz. turkey heart 1 oz. chicken breast 2 oz. ground lamb with bone
SUNDAY AM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse 1 oz. turkey heart 2 oz. ground quail frames 1 chicken egg yolk
SUNDAY PM:
.5 oz. 1 adult mouse .5 oz. turkey liver 1.5 oz. chicken breast 2 oz. ground duck with bone .5 ml salmon oil
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 18:17:49 GMT -5
I used 1 oz. of the turkey heart to count as 1 ounce of muscle meat. That way I know he is getting a little extra taurine.
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 16, 2015 18:50:57 GMT -5
1.) Does freezing degrade taurine? Yes. Meats should not be frozen longer than a month. That being said, I ordered 5 lbs. of turkey hearts and ground them up, placed in ice cube trays to equal 1 oz. each, and refroze. If I don't use all of this within a month, should I supplement with taurine powder? I can order smaller amounts to avoid this happening. I worry about him getting enough taurine. Also, I know many people give a probiotic. What is your opinion on this? I think that if you are feeding him a balanced diet and he has no health issues then supplements are not needed. You will be happy to know that no, freezing does NOT degrade taurine.
Nov 21, 2013 22:22:38 GMT -4 hurricanekatt said: So it has long been passed around that freezing and thawing degrades the taurine content of meat. This is actually a big misconception. HEAT does indeed degrade taurine (cooking), FREEZING however does NOT. Below are two studies to support this statement.
"Taurine has been shown to be very stable at high temperatures(18), and it is not affected by freeze–thaw cycles(19). Consistent with these observations, our data indicate that although the samples used in our study were frozen for almost 20 years, levels of serum taurine were similar to the values reported in the literature using samples stored for a shorter time." www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3128499/
Page 3 of this study: biocor.umn.edu/assets/files/ANALYTE%20STABILITY%20&%20FREEZE-THAW%20INFORMATION-1.pdf
"Taurine is not affected by freeze–thaw cycle" Not sure why the quote didn't work with the links there So here is a link to the actual thread that, that came from, Taurine does Not degrade during freezing
2.) In an emergency (you run out of bone), what are 2 acceptable bone substitutes and how much should your ferrets get? (be specific) Bone meal or dry, crushed eggshell in the amount of 1/2 tsp to 3/4 tsp. per ferret. Yes bone meal or crushed/powdered eggshell is correct the amount is 1/2 - 3/4 tsp per 8oz of meat not per ferret
3.) Give 2 examples each of muscle meat, edible bones, and organs. muscle meat examples: heart, gizzard. Heart while physically speaking is a muscle is it's own category for diet and nutrition. Gizzards are correct, and any other meat not attached to a bone would be correct; thighs, breasts are two examples. edible bone examples: meat with bones in it like a chicken wing or ground quail frames or a mouse with bones small enough for the ferret to crunch. Chicken wings are one of the two I was looking for. I would have accepted necks and rabbit ribs and frog legs or any bone small enough for them to eat also. Ground bones are technically acceptable but do not provide the same benefits as whole bones, as we have discussed in the past. A mouse is considered whole prey. organ examples: heart, liver, pancreas, kidney The heart is not an organ but a muscle and as discussed above has it's own category. Liver, pancreas and kidney are all correct.
4.) How can you tell if your ferret is too fat? Pee on belly, hind leg weakness. Teddy has pee on his belly a lot. BUT, his appetite is dropping off now so I think I may see him slimming down soon. However, he shows NO weakness in hind legs. I know when I have had ferrets on Prednisone, they have presented a bell-shaped abdomen. The round or bell shaped belly is what I was looking for but the pee on the belly is a very good one also! Hind leg weakness can also be a sign of calcium deficiency. Glad to know he has none of that! You may not see him slim down too much right now, "winter is coming"! (yes I'm a Game of Thrones fan!)
5.) Are leaner meats better for your ferret or fattier meats? Ferrets get energy from fat. I try to feed fattier meats like duck. You got it!
The menu you posted is the menu you want me to submit for graduation?
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Post by FireAngel on Aug 16, 2015 18:56:36 GMT -5
I think he prefers me to remove the mouse intestines for him, then serve the mouse on china. :heehee: That sounds about right!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2015 19:59:17 GMT -5
See...I did not do all that great....LOL! How does the menu look to you? It is what I prepared for this next week's meals. I so wish I could get some more whole prey for him now. I am afraid he will imprint on what he has now. He is liking his mice for now. I am giving him 8 oz. per day but he might leave a little.
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