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Post by FireAngel on Jul 7, 2015 19:32:50 GMT -5
Yay! You guys are doing great! Try slicing the gizzards very thinly.
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Post by lyles on Jul 7, 2015 20:36:21 GMT -5
Yay! You guys are doing great! Try slicing the gizzards very thinly. You slice them thinly? lol I just separated the sections between the membranes and thought that's how you served them. I thought it was odd how she was eating them. She was chewing very slowly and sticking her tongue out time to time, like someone enjoying salt water taffy She just went back to bed I guess I'll take them back and slice them. I noticed her scratching a lot today, she might have fleas. Someone who lives with me owns a dutchound and they never take her to the vet. It's an old dog and it has fleas. I keep my bedroom partitioned off with some plywood but I'm sure some fleas might have jumped in (I don't take Nei out of the bedroom). I have some Diatomaceous Earth, tons of it, in the garage. It's been over a year since the last time I did a dust-down of the house. Guess I will do that tomorrow. Only thing I don't like about it is that it dries everything up. It will make her skin very dry which might make the itching worse. I already made an appointment with the vet at the beginning of August, I'll get her shots and checkup done. Is it really advisable to get a DES implant as a preventative? So far I've been taking measures to minimize the chance. Also, I remember talking to the vet about it before and she didn't think it was used as a preventative. Here's a video of her playing with her lamb chop.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 7, 2015 22:15:10 GMT -5
Well if she's doing fine with them the way you did it then you don't have to slice them thin at all. In the end you want her to be able to handle larger pieces of meats and bones anyway, slicing them small at first is just easier for them to get used to, to begin with. Like I said though as long as she is eating them well and does not look like she's getting tired out from chewing them and stopping before she's full then it's all good! She is just too cute playing and looks a lot like my new George, she has almost eyebrows though and he doesn't. I'dont know much about adrenal so I'll tag Heather and Sherry for you I'm sure they will have a good answer about that one. The fleas, well I know there is an approved flea treatment for the beasties though I can't recall it atm, I'm sure Heather or Sherry can tell you what it is. Raw eggs and oils can help with the itching. She's shedding her baby fur and if you're in the northern hemisphere she's shedding for summer anyway.
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Post by Heather on Jul 8, 2015 3:18:08 GMT -5
Chemical approved flea treatments are Advantage and Revolution obtained from your vet. Please be very careful using Diatomaceous Earth. It's very hard on wee creatures who are close to the ground and spend their whole life inhaling just about everything. It can damage their lungs. I've used it and found very little use to it. Controlling fleas is knowing about what you have to do. Brush the ferret 2x daily with a flea comb (dipping it in soapy water), vacuum daily, change and wash ferret bedding in hot water. Fleas work on a two week cycle, with about 80% of their time in on your floors and in your pet's bedding. If you follow this regime you will be able to control minor flea outbreaks without chemicals. If it's a heavier outbreak then you may be able to get by using the chemicals only for about 2 months but you have to follow the regime to get there. There is a fair bit of information regarding adrenal discussions on the forum. Ferrets are an itchy creature, so an itchy ferret isn't going to point to adrenal without other signs and symptoms. ciao
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Post by lyles on Jul 8, 2015 10:12:05 GMT -5
Served Nei some sirloin with a rib with plenty of fat and meat on it. She hasn't touched it yet but she did eat every last bit of gizzard from last night.
Here is my meal plan for right now: Monday am: Beef w/Bone Monday pm: Beef Heart
Tuesday am: Chicken w/Bone Tuesday pm: Chicken Gizzard
Wednesday am: Beef w/Bone Wednesday pm: Beef
Thursday am: Chicken w/Bone Thursday pm: Chicken Hearts and Liver
Friday am: Beef w/Bone Friday pm: Beef
Saturday am: Chicken w/Bone Saturday pm: Chicken
Sunday am: Beef w/Bone Sunday pm: Chicken Liver & Gizzard
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Post by Sherry on Jul 8, 2015 10:48:30 GMT -5
Beef bones will be way too dense for her to eat, although she'll have fun chewing the meat off. So right now, she only has 3 consumable bone meals a week and needs 7-9. Gizzard is a muscle meat, not organ. It is actually a favourite around here There needs to be at least one more protein(duck, turkey, pork, lamb, goat, etc). Liver/other organ(brain, kidney, spleen, thymus, lung, etc) needs to be 1.5 meals a week, or 10% total of the weekly diet.
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Post by lyles on Jul 8, 2015 11:49:27 GMT -5
Beef bones will be way too dense for her to eat, although she'll have fun chewing the meat off. So right now, she only has 3 consumable bone meals a week and needs 7-9. Gizzard is a muscle meat, not organ. It is actually a favourite around here There needs to be at least one more protein(duck, turkey, pork, lamb, goat, etc). Liver/other organ(brain, kidney, spleen, thymus, lung, etc) needs to be 1.5 meals a week, or 10% total of the weekly diet. What other bones can I feed then? I don't have access to duck, lamb or goat and turkey is seasonal. The only other type is pork but their bones are just as dense.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 8, 2015 15:09:51 GMT -5
Can you get quail or rabbit or guinea pigs? If you have mice or can get mice now you can also chop them up as a meal for her to start with until she works up to a whole prey. If you needed to for now until you can figure out how/where to get other proteins you could use chicken as your bone in and beef as the just meat meals. Did she eat any of the rib from last night? As Sherry stated there needs to be another organ also, liver is high in vitamin a and that can build up in her system and cause vitamin a toxicity. The organ meals are meant to be 1/2 liver and 1/2 other organ. I personally like to use 2 other organs just for the variety and benefits each organ has. (I use lung, pancreas and an organ mix that I made up when I gutted and skinned and butchered the rabbits I got for them. No that mix does not include liver, I set that aside separately.) Can you tell me how many ounces or grams she is eating a meal? It is very important to know this. Have you weighed her recently or when you first brought her home did you?
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Post by lyles on Jul 8, 2015 16:16:30 GMT -5
Can you get quail or rabbit or guinea pigs? If you have mice or can get mice now you can also chop them up as a meal for her to start with until she works up to a whole prey. If you needed to for now until you can figure out how/where to get other proteins you could use chicken as your bone in and beef as the just meat meals. Did she eat any of the rib from last night? As Sherry stated there needs to be another organ also, liver is high in vitamin a and that can build up in her system and cause vitamin a toxicity. The organ meals are meant to be 1/2 liver and 1/2 other organ. I personally like to use 2 other organs just for the variety and benefits each organ has. (I use lung, pancreas and an organ mix that I made up when I gutted and skinned and butchered the rabbits I got for them. No that mix does not include liver, I set that aside separately.) Can you tell me how many ounces or grams she is eating a meal? It is very important to know this. Have you weighed her recently or when you first brought her home did you? No, none of those are avail. and I will not feed her live prey. I also can't keep frozen dead animals in the freezer, as I have to share the freezer with others and they won't approve. I keep her free roam in my bedroom and my health is not great, having to handle raw meat on a daily basis is taking a risk enough. I did get some hand sanitizer to help with germs. I went to the store and found that they were selling turkey necks. The butcher also said that chinese pork ribs have soft bones as well so I picked up 5lbs. of that too. It was an arduous task, but I managed to split the 6lbs. of turkey neck down the bone and also the pork ribs. My dedicated freezer space is at it's limit so I could not get anymore than that, plus I'm way over budget trying to get all the right meats for her plan. On the plus side I now have about two months worth. Livers are pretty much the only organ any of these markets sell, If I happen to see any chicken kidneys I'll pick some up, but they were not at the store I was at. She only gets 1.5 servings of liver a week, that should not be enough to cause any toxicity problems. At the moment I do not have a scale, I ordered a hanging one from ebay (to make weighing wiggling weasles easier) but it won't come in until middle of next week. I portion out the food servings loosely about a third of the size of one of those ziplock sandwich bags, or roughly the size of three golf balls. I can tell she gained a lot of weight. She doesn't look fat but she is heavy like a rock. So right now this is the meal plan I'll have to go by for now: Monday am: Chinese Pork Ribs Monday pm: Beef Heart Tuesday am: Chicken w/Bone Tuesday pm: Chicken Gizzard Wednesday am: Turkey Neck Wednesday pm: Beef Thursday am: Chicken w/Bone Thursday pm: Chicken Hearts and Liver Friday am: Chinese Pork Ribs Friday pm: Beef Saturday am: Chicken w/Bone Saturday pm: Chicken Sunday am: Turkey Neck Sunday pm: Chicken Liver & Gizzard
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Post by Sherry on Jul 8, 2015 17:40:32 GMT -5
That is definitely looking better Cornish hen is another good one to add into the mix for bones. It IS a lot like chicken, but just different enough that it is a good addition if you can get it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2015 18:02:52 GMT -5
lyles One thing to remember about Bones. They are the Bones of an animal the size of a chicken or smaller. If you think about them in the wild, they don't take down large animals. Their largest prey are prairie dogs. Since we are buying from a local grocery store, think about chicken wings, duck wings, Cornish game hens and Quail. Rabbit and turkey wing tips or even frog legs. I know you don't want to feed live prey, but frozen prey can also be bought. You want to find a good Asian market with a fresh meat section. That's where you will find Quail. I buy cornish game hens at my local Walmart. Here in Tennessee, we don't get very exotic. My Bone In meals tend to be chicken wings, Quail and Cornish game hens. I get more variety in my Muscle meat meals and organs. Then Pork, beef, turkey or duck gets used. Necks can be tough, especially a turkey neck. Little Nei may need some help with that and may need time to build up her jaw strength. Until she gets a little bigger, maybe you could keep things basic and focus on simple easy to eat bones like chicken wings and look for the quail and Cornish game hen. I like that your menu has gizzards on it. It also includes beef, which is high in Iron and Vitamin B. That's great. If you will allow me to make a few suggestions, I'll copy your menu in bold and put the suggestions below each day. Monday am: Chinese Pork Ribs Monday pm: Beef Heart
You can configure your menu to fit your schedule. a.m. Muscle meat: a fatty cut of pork is great here. p.m. Muscle meat: Heart (this is your full meal of Hearts day) Tuesday am: Chicken w/Bone Tuesday pm: Chicken Gizzard
a.m. Bone In: Chicken wings is great. p.m. Muscle Meat: gizzards are great. Look around for duck gizzards also. Wednesday am: Turkey Neck Wednesday pm: Beef
a.m. Bone In: A turkey neck is very tough. She will need you to smash this. Here would be a great day for Quail or Cornish game hen p.m. Beef: We want a Beef meal. A nice fatty cut of chuck roast or ground beef would be good. here is the problem, you are now at four muscle meat meals. That's the most you should have. Thursday am: Chicken w/Bone Thursday pm: Chicken Hearts and Liver
a.m. Bone In: Chicken wings are fine. p.m. Organ Meal: Here you want Liver plus another Organ plus a half meal of Hearts Liver is five percent of her weekly intake. Heart is ten percent and the other organ is five percent. Friday am: Chinese Pork Ribs Friday pm: Beef
a.m. Bone In Pork. Pork ribs are going to be difficult for her. A pig is a big animal and those bones will be tough for her. Here is where you want Quail or cornish game hen or another smaller animal. p.m. Beef is a muscle meat meal and you are now at five Muscle meat meals. The most you should have is four. You really need another Bone In meal here. Saturday am: Chicken w/Bone Saturday pm: Chicken
Saturday needs to have both meals be Bone In meals. Sunday am: Turkey Neck Sunday pm: Chicken Liver & Gizzard
a.m. Bone In meals: again, the turkey neck will be tough. Even a chicken neck is tough, she will need this smashed at first. p.m. Gizzard is a muscle meat meal. Here you need a Liver plus another Organ meal.
Nei's Menu plan should have 7-9 Bone In meals. 3-4 Muscle meat meals. 1 full meal of Heart (muscle meat) 1 meal of Liver plus another organ and 1 meal of Liver plus another organ and a half meal of Heart. She should have at least 3 different proteins and ideally, 1 meal of red meat. Does that help any? Don't hesitate to ask questions. You and Nei are doing so well. I'm glad that you found each other.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 8, 2015 18:04:27 GMT -5
Can you purchase your own small freezer? Since she is a kit still and tummy with teeth it would not surprise me if she were eating 8-12ozs a day all on her own. Get gloves and dedicate a cutting board and knives for her food specifically to help you with handling and cross contamination worries.I went to the store and found that they were selling turkey necks. The butcher also said that chinese pork ribs have soft bones as well so I picked up 5lbs. of that too. It was an arduous task, but I managed to split the 6lbs. of turkey neck down the bone and also the pork ribs. My dedicated freezer space is at it's limit so I could not get anymore than that, plus I'm way over budget trying to get all the right meats for her plan. On the plus side I now have about two months worth. Livers are pretty much the only organ any of these markets sell, If I happen to see any chicken kidneys I'll pick some up, but they were not at the store I was at. She only gets 1.5 servings of liver a week, that should not be enough to cause any toxicity problems. Those are great bone in choices, did you mean you were able to spilt the bones or that you took the meat off the bones? It is definitely an initially expensive thing to undertake when you start feeding raw. As she settles into a more adult eating pattern (in 6 months or so) the cost lessens plus think of the money you will be saving on teeth cleaning and vet visits because of an unhealthy diet. Organs should be 10% of her diet. 5% liver and 5% other secreting organ. This is part of the reason weights are so important. At the moment I do not have a scale, I ordered a hanging one from ebay (to make weighing wiggling weasles easier) but it won't come in until middle of next week. I portion out the food servings loosely about a third of the size of one of those ziplock sandwich bags, or roughly the size of three golf balls. I can tell she gained a lot of weight. She doesn't look fat but she is heavy like a rock. Excellent! Can't wait for weights! :heehee:So right now this is the meal plan I'll have to go by for now: Monday am: Chinese Pork Ribs Monday pm: Beef Heart Tuesday am: Chicken w/Bone Tuesday pm: Chicken Gizzard Wednesday am: Turkey Neck Wednesday pm: Beef Thursday am: Chicken w/Bone Thursday pm: Chicken Hearts and Liver Friday am: Chinese Pork Ribs Friday pm: Beef Saturday am: Chicken w/Bone Saturday pm: Chicken Sunday am: Turkey Neck Sunday pm: Chicken Liver & Gizzard Ok so you have 7 bone in 5 and 1/2 muscle 1 liver meal heart 1.5 looking much better
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Post by lyles on Jul 9, 2015 11:12:30 GMT -5
July 9th: I checked to see that she ate 2 of the 4 turkey neck quarters. One bone was feathered completely around while the other still had bits of meat on it. She didn't eat much at all last night, about half as much as she normally does.
I goofed up and gave her Pork this morning instead of chicken. It is already getting close to noon and she hasn't eaten anything. If she doesn't eat by the afternoon I'll mix in some sirloin to see if that'll stimulate her apatite.
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Post by lyles on Jul 9, 2015 20:37:42 GMT -5
She's been acting odd today. She didn't touch the pork and slept much longer than usual. Swapped out her food with the evening liver and heart this evening but she only ate one piece. She is still pooping though, two times were very tiny poops and then a very pale mucousy poop. She has been very active right now, been playing for an hour and a half.
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Post by lyles on Jul 9, 2015 20:51:07 GMT -5
As soon as I posted this she munched down a heart and went back to sleep, so she is still eating and the food isn't the problem. She might just be sick, she was coughing a lot earlier. I've been watching her and aside from the extra rest she hasn't vomited, pawed at mouth or unusual movements. This flu has been killing me too, one of my aunts had it for over a year though the symptoms weren't as severe as mine. I'm vaping eucalyptus and mint and that has been a huge help in holding back the secondary infections in my lungs and sinuses, still feel like crap though. I'm sure she has the flu too, seeing how I've caught her licking my mouth while I was sleeping yuck!
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