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Post by lyles on Jul 2, 2015 0:21:07 GMT -5
This will be my thread logging the progress of Nei's adaptation to a raw diet and my first experience as a raw feeder. June 30th: I met Nei for the first time. I purchased her from the nearby Petco and brought home with her a small bag of their Marshall's food they been feeding them. I fed it to her twice that day and prepared some chunks of thinly sliced sirlion steak that was finely marbled. Tried the scruff & stuff method that evening which after a few attempts she finally chewed and swallowed, would not eat from bowl. July 1st: Got up around 3am as Nei woke and did the scruff and stuff once more. She ate two pieces and then took another piece from the bowl. Later, at 8:30am she took pieces from my hand without needing to pick her up or scruff her. She ate a few tiny pieces from the bowl and scattered the rest. Around 2:00pm I tried to introduce some chopped chicken breast, scruff and stuff was a failure. She skipped eating completely, discovered that she was staving off her hunger with the Marshall's Chicken flavored chewies. After taking them away (much to her hissing of discontent) she ate a couple of sirloin but ignored the chicken. Right afterwards I tried to make a soup by grinding up some chicken breast with a few pieces of sirloin for her to try. She licked it a few times but ignored it. I then trashed it then added the chunks again as seen in above picture. Nei threw up the amount of one piece of meat but it could be due to the consumption of the chew toy and/or a flu symptom. Edit: Just wanted to add since the first piece of meat has left her GI tract her stool has been black and tarry (which I assume is from the consumption of the bloody meat).
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Post by lyles on Jul 2, 2015 8:10:37 GMT -5
2 July: Great news! I came back to the room after boiling some eggs and chicken thinking that might stimulate her apatite for new things when I found her munching down on all the left over chicken from last night. I did however discovered that she made a rather nasty poop back of the closet. Green and mucousy, gross! I'll try to feed her some liver tomorrow, in the meantime I need a camera with a faster response time, she's too fast!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2015 8:30:35 GMT -5
I'm glad that she is eating her raw. Did you try the soupie stage or did you just go right into chunks? I only ask because we usually start with soupie and move our way up to chunks. I've had ferrets that didn't need to stay long on that stage, but it was easier to sit and try to coax them into eating the raw. You can also try some ground meats and see how she response to that. Mine love ground turkey with a whole egg in it.
As far as the poopy goes, there is a chart on the board some where that shows what a "normal" poop looks like. From what I remember the poop you have there is not that abnormal considering everything she is going through right now. The switch to raw, a new home, and some health issues. I'll see if I can find it again and share it with you.
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Post by Blue on Jul 2, 2015 14:13:57 GMT -5
I don't think Nei really needs the soupie stage because she's a kit. She should eat pretty much anything that's presented to her. Are you sure you need the scruff part of the scruff and stuff? That seems a little harsh for a kit. She might just eat it off your fingertips. Sometimes Maisie won't eat something until I've finger fed it to her a couple of times, showing her that it's good food. During the switch to raw you'll get all kinds of weird and worrisome-looking poops. Generally it's nothing to worry about, unless you see other symptoms that she might be sick (lethargy, teeth-grinding, pawing at mouth). Nei is adorable!!! Thank you for the pictures
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Post by lyles on Jul 2, 2015 14:47:29 GMT -5
I don't think Nei really needs the soupie stage because she's a kit. She should eat pretty much anything that's presented to her. Are you sure you need the scruff part of the scruff and stuff? That seems a little harsh for a kit. She might just eat it off your fingertips. Sometimes Maisie won't eat something until I've finger fed it to her a couple of times, showing her that it's good food. During the switch to raw you'll get all kinds of weird and worrisome-looking poops. Generally it's nothing to worry about, unless you see other symptoms that she might be sick (lethargy, teeth-grinding, pawing at mouth). Nei is adorable!!! Thank you for the pictures OMG, I hate when you type a lot and get an error, trying to go back and see all your types is gone. I don't scruff her anymore, that was only for the first day with beef and chicken. Now she eats on her own without any intervention. She ate all her meal for the day except the couple of pieces of hard boiled eggs I added. I just added some water and mushed the yolk in it and she lapped some of it up, I'm sure she will try to eat some later before I give her evening meal. I haven't seen anymore odd behavior since her vomit yesterday, no idea what might have caused it but it could of been just a gag reflex from being too excited after eating a lot? I have a full month's worth of cubed beef, chicken breast and chicken liver wrapped up. I haven't prepared any meals with bone yet because she is only 2 months old and wasn't sure if she was still too young for bone. Should I chop up some chicken with bone for her now or wait a month after she grows some more? If so, should I leave whole bones intact or chop them up into manageable pieces?
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Post by Blue on Jul 2, 2015 18:14:37 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad she's eating all on her own. Any reason you're serving the egg boiled? Raw is fine and probably easier to eat. Although don't try right away! General recommendation is 1 egg / week, up to 2 during shedding season. Too much gives them runny poops (to add to your collection ). Keep an eye on it, but the vomiting is probably just her eating to much and/or too quickly. Maisie has done that a couple of times, and she's not even a kit -- aka a "tummy with teeth"! You'll probably get to know how much is too much for her in one go. Maisie can't handle more than 2.5-3 oz (this includes water). She can start on bone, I think kits can start at 4-5 weeks! The easiest way to start is probably with a chicken wing, or even just the tip. Smash the bone before giving it to her, so the bone's broken up. Eventually you should be able to progress to not smashing it up. In the meantime, are you giving her any bonemeal (human grade), or ground up egg shells? The proportion is 1/2 tspn for every 8 oz of meat. It's really important that she get these nutrients, especially as a kit. Kits that don't get enough calcium get swimmer's syndrome, their hind legs don't work properly. Hopefully she'll take just fine to the bone and you won't have to worry about this
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Post by lyles on Jul 2, 2015 20:42:20 GMT -5
Oh good, I'm glad she's eating all on her own. Any reason you're serving the egg boiled? Raw is fine and probably easier to eat. Although don't try right away! General recommendation is 1 egg / week, up to 2 during shedding season. Too much gives them runny poops (to add to your collection ). Keep an eye on it, but the vomiting is probably just her eating to much and/or too quickly. Maisie has done that a couple of times, and she's not even a kit -- aka a "tummy with teeth"! You'll probably get to know how much is too much for her in one go. Maisie can't handle more than 2.5-3 oz (this includes water). She can start on bone, I think kits can start at 4-5 weeks! The easiest way to start is probably with a chicken wing, or even just the tip. Smash the bone before giving it to her, so the bone's broken up. Eventually you should be able to progress to not smashing it up. In the meantime, are you giving her any bonemeal (human grade), or ground up egg shells? The proportion is 1/2 tspn for every 8 oz of meat. It's really important that she get these nutrients, especially as a kit. Kits that don't get enough calcium get swimmer's syndrome, their hind legs don't work properly. Hopefully she'll take just fine to the bone and you won't have to worry about this I tried serving it boiled so that I didn't have to give her the whole egg at once and it would bleed into all the other meats. If she wouldn't like it then it would keep her from eating the other meat as well. It is also easier to section up. I just got an idea for the calcium. I have lots of cuttlefish bones that I give to my turtles, I just took a piece and finely shaved it as a powder over the meat. It is highly absorptive like eggshells, tasteless and has lots of essential minerals besides calcium.
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Post by lyles on Jul 2, 2015 21:32:42 GMT -5
I went ahead since it was thawed out and chopped up the fryer. I didn't have a cleaver so I tried using my ceremic and ended up breaking it. So I took one of my old knives and hit it on top with a meat tenderizer to break through the bones. Placed a few in her bowl and she took one in her "den". Worth mentioning that she did eat the meat with cuttlefish dusting no problem.
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Post by lyles on Jul 3, 2015 3:14:12 GMT -5
July 3rd: 3am, she is gnawing away on a section of chicken bone, she loves how I chopped them up. Ordered a meat cleaver and a new kitchen knife (damascus this time). Won't get it until middle of this month but won't be a problem as I have enough food prepared for all the way into Augest. lol
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 3, 2015 11:24:12 GMT -5
Hi there! It sounds like she's doing great so far and so are you! Yes those poops look like a normal stressed pooped or maybe better worded lots of changes all at once poop! Hehe you will find with a raw diet poops look different almost all the time and you will have to learn what is normal for your beastie when she eats what. Here is the Poop chart. There are some great pictures there if you are ever worried, but never be afraid to ask! Kits are great to switch, you should find it pretty easy. Have you taken away the kibble yet? Here is a link to the meal chart, in case you want to ever do whole grinds or whole prey this will come in handy. It also gives a breakdown of how much is needed for a plain frankenprey menu, Frankenprey and whole meals chart
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Post by lyles on Jul 3, 2015 12:16:36 GMT -5
Hi there! It sounds like she's doing great so far and so are you! Yes those poops look like a normal stressed pooped or maybe better worded lots of changes all at once poop! Hehe you will find with a raw diet poops look different almost all the time and you will have to learn what is normal for your beastie when she eats what. Here is the Poop chart. There are some great pictures there if you are ever worried, but never be afraid to ask! Kits are great to switch, you should find it pretty easy. Have you taken away the kibble yet? Here is a link to the meal chart, in case you want to ever do whole grinds or whole prey this will come in handy. It also gives a breakdown of how much is needed for a plain frankenprey menu, Frankenprey and whole meals chartOh yeah, I haven't fed her kibble since the first day. I notice that her poops are black and tarry if she eats mostly beef while it's green and mucous if chicken.
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Post by Desiree on Jul 3, 2015 12:21:15 GMT -5
Black and tarry on beef is normaly for my crew, no bone and lots of blood in the meat make them that way. The green and mucousy makes me wonder about a chicken allergy. Can you access rabbit, quail or duck for bone in sources and avoid the chicken for a little bit? It could very well be stress but it would be good to rule out any allergies now.
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Post by FireAngel on Jul 3, 2015 12:23:27 GMT -5
Woohooo, yay for no kibble! Have you thought of a meal plan for her yet?
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Post by lyles on Jul 3, 2015 14:21:00 GMT -5
Black and tarry on beef is normal for my crew, no bone and lots of blood in the meat make them that way. The green and mucousy makes me wonder about a chicken allergy. Can you access rabbit, quail or duck for bone in sources and avoid the chicken for a little bit? It could very well be stress but it would be good to rule out any allergies now. Unfortunately most supermarkets in the states carry only cuts of beef, pork, chicken and limited selection of fish and seafood. I could get some pork and sub that for the chicken for a couple of days and see how it changes. She doesn't care for egg, the yolk run-off doesn't bother her when she is lapping up the juices but she won't attempt to take a bite. I also noticed she does not like big chunks of meat. If a meat is too big she will take it out of the bowl and set it aside somewhere and forget it. This is a problem with bone-in-meats, as it tends to make it hard cutting pieces down to her desired size. I also am thinking about only getting chicken legs for chicken and baby back ribs for the beef. I want something that has soft ends where the bone is spongy with lots of marrow.
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Post by lyles on Jul 3, 2015 14:25:51 GMT -5
Woohooo, yay for no kibble! Have you thought of a meal plan for her yet? Nothing definite yet, I'm touch and go for the moment. Trying to see what stimulates her appetite the most, while figuring out how to provide her with an acceptable variety and still meet her nutritional requirements.
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