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Post by msav on Feb 21, 2015 23:01:42 GMT -5
I do like seeing what msav had to say particularly in the matter of age and implant adrenal prevention efficacy. If the trials are looking so good for younger than 6 months then I'm all about it! Are those trials for DES or melatonin msav? I just saw "yearly" so I'm assuming DES but would like to confirm for when I call the vet Monday. I'm thinking rabies shot at 4 months and DES a couple weeks after based on those trial results. yes, Suprelorin F (aka DES)
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Post by Heather on Feb 21, 2015 23:02:15 GMT -5
When they start taking orders for those implants then I will believe they're available. I'm tired of being strung along and treated like a complete idiot by the distributor. I've lost 2 fuzzbabies because of their stupid inability to confirm a shipping date. I've got another wee boy who I may just loose because of the lack of the implants. I'm totally disgusted with the PR from the distributor....my rant over As far as using the implant as a preventative after a spay or alter....it appears to be working. It is a proven fact that the DES will stall the growth of the adrenal tumours. Will it actually stop it....don't know for sure and Virbac has screwed themselves by not supporting the trial to it's conclusion. That being said....what happens if you don't use the DES as a preventative?....your ferret is set up for adrenal probably around the age of 4 or 5 yrs old, maybe even sooner. So what happens if you do use the DES and it doesn't stop adrenal from happening? It only stalls it.....no matter what by using the DES you've stalled the adrenal until probably 6, 7 or 8 yrs of age. Guess what? The DES is now being used to help your ferret from dying from adrenal....originally you're treating your ferret annually....now he's displaying symptoms, but he's 7 or 8 yrs of age. You bump your DES to every 6 months and you buy your ferret some more time. Most ferrets who are being treated for adrenal by the DES live another 2 or 3 yrs. So your ferret hasn't become adrenal at 3 or 4 but instead 7 or 8 yrs of age....add another 2 or 3 yrs to that equation...think about it. We may not be able to beat adrenal entirely but maybe just maybe by using it as a preventative first and then as a treatment second we can prevent our guys from actually dying from adrenal or at least postponing it until it doesn't really matter. I don't know....big corporations are using laymen to create their own science so that they get to reap the rewards with little or now expenses. The studies using the DES are short, small...basically insignificant. The use of the DES implant is an experiment, that's why it was never approved. There is no science or proof. We're drawing our own conclusions. This is the first time though that we've actually seen positive outcomes. ciao
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Post by msav on Feb 21, 2015 23:05:59 GMT -5
msav, someone I know recently lost a ferret to adrenal disease. The ferret had had the implant for several years before passing. It caught the owner by surprise, because #1 the ferret was on Deslorelin for prevention and #2 the ferret did not have any symptoms, until its sudden death. The autopsy revealed that not only the ferret had a massive adrenal tumor, but also it had metastasized to the liver. That's what I was referring to, and I do not have a study that I can site, nor do I claim that this is my personal experience. I'm just throwing it out there. I believe this ferret originally came from the shelter, and it didn't start the implants as a kit. Maybe that's why a tumor developed anyway? I hope it won't happen to your 5 babies though... That is why I have been following the trials, if the ferret has gaps between implants or was started too late, they are removed from the trial. Without knowing for sure when the first implant happened, it is hard to say. But yes anywhere from 4 to 6 months of age is when the ferrets first hormonal surge happens. That is when damage starts to happen.
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Post by msav on Feb 21, 2015 23:18:08 GMT -5
When they start taking orders for those implants then I will believe they're available. I'm tired of being strung along and treated like a complete idiot by the distributor. I've lost 2 fuzzbabies because of their stupid inability to confirm a shipping date. I've got another wee boy who I may just loose because of the lack of the implants. I'm totally disgusted with the PR from the distributor....my rant over As far as using the implant as a preventative after a spay or alter....it appears to be working. It is a proven fact that the DES will stall the growth of the adrenal tumours. Will it actually stop it....don't know for sure and Virbac has screwed themselves by not supporting the trial to it's conclusion. That being said....what happens if you don't use the DES as a preventative?....your ferret is set up for adrenal probably around the age of 4 or 5 yrs old, maybe even sooner. So what happens if you do use the DES and it doesn't stop adrenal from happening? It only stalls it.....no matter what by using the DES you've stalled the adrenal until probably 6, 7 or 8 yrs of age. Guess what? The DES is now being used to help your ferret from dying from adrenal....originally you're treating your ferret annually....now he's displaying symptoms, but he's 7 or 8 yrs of age. You bump your DES to every 6 months and you buy your ferret some more time. Most ferrets who are being treated for adrenal by the DES live another 2 or 3 yrs. So your ferret hasn't become adrenal at 3 or 4 but instead 7 or 8 yrs of age....add another 2 or 3 yrs to that equation...think about it. We may not be able to beat adrenal entirely but maybe just maybe by using it as a preventative first and then as a treatment second we can prevent our guys from actually dying from adrenal or at least postponing it until it doesn't really matter. I don't know....big corporations are using laymen to create their own science so that they get to reap the rewards with little or now expenses. The studies using the DES are short, small...basically insignificant. The use of the DES implant is an experiment, that's why it was never approved. There is no science or proof. We're drawing our own conclusions. This is the first time though that we've actually seen positive outcomes. ciao I have 2 happy healthy ferrets soon to be 7 years old. it has been worth every penny I have spent on it. because they are not suffering from symptoms of Adrenal. my first ferret was A rescue and it killed me to see the poor baby in such pain even at only 3 years old. These are my first 2 that I had from a kit, My only regrets is that I did not start them on a raw diet until they were 6 years old. My last 2 ferrets (waardies) are raw from the start and getting yearly DES ( I hope). I just want my ferrets to be happy and healthy and live as long as they can pain free with me.
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Post by Celene on Feb 21, 2015 23:25:16 GMT -5
Not sure, maybe they're just so tired of people asking that they have a pre-written response. I went back on the AFA (American Ferret Association) page to get their actual official statement:
Here's to putting an end to the speculation on the deslorelin acetate implant availability. Today one of our health affair committee members and well-known ferret veterinarian, Dr. Ruth Heller, made contact with Virbac. She has confirmed that the implants are in route and waiting to pass through customs. GREAT news for ferrets everywhere!! There is also no planned price increase on the implants as some have been suggesting.
That was posted February 17 and the AFA have since taken down their formal petition to Virbac (which was basically requesting that they get the implants out because fuzzies are dying in the meantime).
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Post by linsul on Feb 21, 2015 23:26:35 GMT -5
Well I'm sold on the notion, I hope the vet is as well. I also hope they really have it because of all the shipment delay and runaround. It is advertised on the site so fingers crossed. I'm going to push for it if they have it and only take no for an answer if they're saving it for adrenal ferret patients due to recalled batches and whatnot.
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Post by msav on Feb 21, 2015 23:32:36 GMT -5
well then I am just waiting for the phone call from my vet, I am on their list for 5 of them.
will call the vet Monday to see if they have an ETA so I can make the appointment.
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Post by linsul on Feb 21, 2015 23:39:38 GMT -5
Good luck to you msav I hope they have it in and everything works out for you and yours! What celene posted makes me hopeful that supply is or will be a reality soon.
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Post by linsul on Feb 22, 2015 3:25:06 GMT -5
Hi linsul! I'm no expert by any means, but I do use Deslorelin acetate implants on my Marshall ferrets for prevention and treatment. It is not known if it actually prevents and treats adrenal disease. Sadly some ferrets receive this implant for many consecutive years, and still develop adrenal tumor. It might just mask the symptoms as Celene said, but I think it's worth it just to give them a relief from these nasty symptoms. With the information that the current studies can provide, I believe this is our best bet. Our Marshall ferrets are doomed. Most of them will develop adrenal disease sooner or later. [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/T_T.png" src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .png"] linsul, is Kat a Marshall? I'm sure you know, but all Marshall ferrets in the U.S. come fixed. (Unless you are in Europe, then Marshall apparently does sell intact ferrets over there, from what I've heard.) So they do not go into seasons. When working with fixed ferrets, you don't really need to worry about the timing of giving them an implant. I think sooner the better. Yes she's a marshall's ferret, thank you for the heads up regarding the timing for fixed!
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