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Post by Heather on Feb 20, 2015 23:02:11 GMT -5
Name:Akane HF Forum Username: Akane Please confirm that you are 18 years of age or older: Yes, I am older than 18.
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? On Greater Chicago Ferret Association facebook page. I saw pictures of ferrets eating raw meat.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I want to switch all four of my ferrets to Frankenprey diet.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? Because I have heard good things about raw diet from my friends. The main reason is to prevent inslinoma. As a bonus, I'm hoping that it will improve their muscle tone and coat.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Yes, I am committed. I have started self-switch six weeks ago, and I have successfully put one ferret on complete Frankenprey. I am confident that I can handle this process for my other ferrets with a mentor's assistance.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I have four ferrets: Leela, female, 4 years old. She is on Deslorelin, otherwise no health problem. She seems underweight for her body size. I've had her for almost four years. Flexie, female, 4+ years old. She is also on Deslorelin. She stares in the air sometimes, but I don't know of any health problems otherwise. Her weight has increased since receiving the implant. I've had her for almost four years. Mitch, male, 9 months old. He has broken hips. He had a surgery on the left side when he was three months old. He has been doing physical therapy since then, and he can walk now. Long story short, he is crippled, but otherwise healthy. The vet thinks he's overweight, but I don't think so. His father and grandfather were both large ferrets, and he's just a large ferret. He's not fat. I have had him for seven months. Mango, male, 9 months old. No health issues. He is lean, but he is solid muscle and in great shape. I have had him for six months.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Do they already eat some form of soup? Leela- Half FDR and half raw soup twice a day. She may be eating kibble during the day. I'm not sure. Also ferretone for occasional treat. Flexie- exclusively kibble. (Orijin and Zupreem) Also occasional ferretone for treat. Mitch- MyPetCarnivore rabbit, duck, and turkey. Chicken wings, liver+ kidney puree, and chcken hearts. FDR. Soupie (HF recipe). Also ferretone, salmon oil and ziwipeak lamb for occasional treat. Mango- complete Frankenprey. Also ferretone and salmon oil for occasional treat.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Yes, many times. I gave up every time.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I live in Indiana with a human husband and four ferret kids. I am a lab tech in a medical reference lab. When I'm not working, I enjoy running, painting, playing French Horn in a community band and playing with my perfect ferrets. I am known to be the crazy ferret lady among my friends; people ask me how my ferrets are doing as a topic of a small talk, and they get so much more information than they wanted to know that they probably wish they didn't ask.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Just about everyday.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program :wave3: . In a little while your mentor ( GFountain ), will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun :banana:. Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2015 23:08:01 GMT -5
Yieppieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Thanks, Heather. I have my very own official switching thread! I'm so excited to go on this journey with gfountain.
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Post by gfountain on Feb 20, 2015 23:31:10 GMT -5
Hi @akane! I'm Gina, your mentor. You can read my bio here if you're interested. I'm excited to start working with you to give your fuzzies a healthier diet! Please look over your application above and make sure nothing has changed since you filled it out. I'll also need current weights and 'dangling' pictures, please.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 11:51:20 GMT -5
Hi Gina! I am so excited to start this with you! I took a look at your mentor profile. Wow, so you have 150 cows? You must live on a farm. That sounds like an awesome country way of living. As I said in PM, I was starting to feel a little stuck with our progress, so this is a great news! I am encouraged again. Just a couple small things changed since I filled out the application: - Now all of my ferrets are on Deslorelin acetate implants. Leela and Flexie for adrenal disease treatment, and Mitch and Mango for chemical castration.
- Obviosly, their age.
Leela: 4 years
Flexie: almost 5 years
Mitch: 1 year
Mango: 1 year
Aside from that, things have not changed much. I will weigh and take a picture of everyone, and post them later today.
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Post by gfountain on Feb 21, 2015 12:48:44 GMT -5
Ha! I just took a look at my mentor profile too. It needs to be updated. Minnie no longer eats like a beast, and we've added two big boys to our business! As far as the cows, yes we live on a farm. The cows are actually owned by a co-op of families (sort of) and we collectively run a dairy. The dynamics are a little unusual but it works for all of us.
All ferrets are on Des? When are they due for another one? Where do you live? Can you get them in your area?
I know you told me in pm what everyone is eating, but please put it again here for people who may be following along with this switch. And now, as promised, a few questions to get us started.
Are the ferrets caged or free roam? Where do they eat? How often do you feed them? What is your daily schedule? (Work, playtime, etc) For the ones who are already eating raw, what proteins have they had? Do they like any kind of oils? What about eggs, have they had them, do they like them? Someone I remember is on slivers. What size are they? Do you have access to all the organs and hearts you need? Do you have a list of proteins that you can get for them? Have you started a food journal yet?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 20:17:21 GMT -5
Ahhh, co-op. That's impressive that a group of people can handle that many cows together! Cool! All my ferrets are sleeping somewhere right now, so I will weigh and take pictures then, I promise! In the mean time, I will answer your questions. (The calm before the storm, I like to call it.) All ferrets are on Des? When are they due for another one? Where do you live? Can you get them in your area?Yes, all four of them. Leela and Flexie are due for a new one in June. Flexie is actually adrenal, and Leela was loosing undercoat on her tail. So, treatment for Flexie, and prevention for Leela. I'll wait and see if we need another one for the boys, since they are intact and the implant is for chemical castration. Some people find that they never go back in season after only one implant. So, we'll see how they do on it. I live in Northern Indiana, and my local vet is not very helpful, so I started seeing an exotic vet who is 2.5 hours away. She imports them from Australia, and while she does not get very many at a time, she usually has them in stock. I know you told me in pm what everyone is eating, but please put it again here for people who may be following along with this switch. And now, as promised, a few questions to get us started.
Leela- FDR + slivers. She can take pretty large slivers, but she won't eat soup without FDR mixed in. I also leave some Ziwipeak lamb for her, since she has access to her sister's kibble, and I don't want her eating it. She would chose FDR and Ziwipeak over kibble, if given a choice. This is Leela on the couch. She is the alpha ferret, and she'll let everyone know. The only ferret that she likes is Flexie. She tolerates the boys now, but I tell ya.... She was really bad. She has come a LONG way! Flexie- kibble (Orijen kitten). She is my stubborn one who won't even eat more than a few licks of FDR. As long as she's refusing to eat anything else other than kibble, their switch continues to be difficult. I HAVE TO leave kibble out for her, and Mitch will eat her kibble if he sees it. A bit blurry, but this is Flexie being a sweet girl she is. Mitch- raw soup (HFF recipe) + chicken sliver twice a day. He eats about 4-5 oz. daily. I have to hand-feed him everyday... He will not eat on his own if I leave the same food in his cage. He'll just wait for me to come home, and eats like I tried to starve him. Sometimes he eats about half of what's on the plate, but most of the time he won't even touch it. It's the same food, goofball! This is Mitch. He is my special boy... He is a differently-abled boy who survived multiple adversities at the beginning of his life. But one thing he always has had is love. <3 Mango- I'm proud to say he is my first and only Frankenprey convert so far. His weekly menu is following: Mon AM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken wings) Mon PM: ½ Hearts + ¼ liver, ¼ other organ (½ chicken hearts + ¼ chicken liver + ¼ pork kidney) Tue AM: Edible bone-in meat (CGH) Tue PM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken wings) Wed AM: Edible bone-in meat (quail) Wed PM: muscle meat (pork loin) Thur AM: Edible bone-in meat (CGH) Thur PM: Hearts (chicken hearts) Fri AM: Edible bone-in meat (chicken wings) Fri PM: ½ liver + ½ other organ (½ chicken liver + ½ pork kidney) Sat AM: Edible bone-in meat (CGH) Sat PM: Muscle meat (chicken or turkey gizzards) Sun AM: Edible bone-in meat (quail) Sun PM: muscle meat (beef steak) 8- Edible bone-in meat 1.5 - Hearts 3- Muscle meat 1.5- organ -------------------------------- = 14 meals This is Mango. He is the dominant male in our business. He tends to be a biter, especially to Mitch. Mitch always has "war wounds" on his neck. That is why they have to be separated when I'm not home. But he sure knows that Leela is the alpha. He won't do what he does to Mitch to the girls. Are the ferrets caged or free roam?Leela and Flexie are free roam. Mitch and Mango have their own ferret nation unit. I have an FN-142, and they each get one level. They do get free time outside their cage for 30 min. to an hour in the morning, before I go to work, and after I get home, about 4 hours. That's when I worry that they might eat Flexie's kibble. Where do they eat? In the kitchen. I have a boot mat, and that's where water and food are. They also have a cardboard box in the kitchen that I use as a feeding den. Mitch eats in my lap. Mango eats in his cage during the day. How often do you feed them?Twice a day for my raw eater boys, and the free roam girls have access to kibble all day. I give Leela soup + FDR mix twice a day also. What is your daily schedule? (Work, playtime, etc)I'm usually gone from 8 AM to 7 PM. They get fed and get to play when I'm home. I'm usually home all weekend. (That means they are out all day! Woot!) For the ones who are already eating raw, what proteins have they had?Mango eats chicken, quail, CGH, pork, turkey and beef. Mitch eats chicken "soup," ground rabbit and ground duck. (These are commercial grinds from MyPetCarnivore.) Leela eats the same proteins as Mitch, in her FDR. Do they like any kind of oils?Yes! They all go nuts over ferretone. Leela, Mitch and Mango love salmon oil too. Flexie... not so much. She only eats ferretone. I'm curious about coconut oil.... I've heard good things about it, and I might try that one too. What about eggs, have they had them, do they like them?Mitch and Mango love beaten eggs as occasional treats. I have not tried it with Leela and Flexie. Someone I remember is on slivers. What size are they?Mitch- his slivers have to be thin. He will eat index finger size slivers if they are thin, but he won't eat pinky finger sized sliver if they are diced chunks. But he will eat bigger chunks if he's hungry enough. I didn't feed him until 3.5 hours past their feeding time this morning, and he ate a couple bone-in CGH chunks from Mango's plate. Leela- she eats the same soup that I make for Mitch. (Plus she needs FDR in it) She doesn't seem to mind the slivers. She will eat whatever is in it. In fact, this morning I threw a couple pieces of quail in the mix, and she ate it no problem. Do you have access to all the organs and hearts you need? I can get chicken livers, chicken hearts and pork kidneys at a local meat store. I have bought beef liver, but they did not like it. I have asked around for pork brains, but no luck yet. Do you have a list of proteins that you can get for them?I think it's on the soupie recipe doc that Sherry created. Is there another one? Have you started a food journal yet?Yes, I had an unofficial thread, and I jotted down my food journal there.
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Post by gfountain on Feb 21, 2015 22:34:38 GMT -5
Oh, what beautiful furbabies! I was distracted by the pictures and forgot to read the words. I had to go back and start over from the beginning, lol. I'll wait and see if we need another one for the boys, since they are intact and the implant is for chemical castration. Some people find that they never go back in season after only one implant. I was thinking "where did she get intact hobs?" Then I remembered, you have PVO babies, don't you? I love her kits. If/when I'm ready for another kit, I want one of hers. I started seeing an exotic vet who is 2.5 hours away. She imports them from Australia, and while she does not get very many at a time, she usually has them in stock. This surprises me. I've heard of several vets who have tried to import them, but they can't get past customs regulations. What city is she in, just in case I need one before they're available again? (Fingers crossed that won't happen!) Leela- FDR + slivers. She can take pretty large slivers, but she won't eat soup without FDR mixed in. I also leave some Ziwipeak lamb for her, since she has access to her sister's kibble, and I don't want her eating it. I understand the reason for leaving the FDR for her, but if she's eating good size slivers, why is she still getting soup? Will she not eat the slivers WITHOUT soup? Will she eat her slivers on her own or do you have to hand feed her? Flexie- kibble (Orijen kitten). She is my stubborn one who won't even eat more than a few licks of FDR. As long as she's refusing to eat anything else other than kibble, their switch continues to be difficult. I HAVE TO leave kibble out for her, and Mitch will eat her kibble if he sees it. There's always a problem child, lol. Mitch- raw soup (HFF recipe) + chicken sliver twice a day. He eats about 4-5 oz. daily. I have to hand-feed him everyday... He will not eat on his own if I leave the same food in his cage. He'll just wait for me to come home, and eats like I tried to starve him. Sometimes he eats about half of what's on the plate, but most of the time he won't even touch it. It's the same food, goofball! Again, why the soup if he eats slivers? Not criticizing, just need to understand why. What kind of dish are you using for him? This is Mitch. He is my special boy... He is a differently-abled boy who survived multiple adversities at the beginning of his life. But one thing he always has had is love. <3 Awww. This is the one who had hip surgery as a kit? What was/is wrong with him? Mango- I'm proud to say he is my first and only Frankenprey convert so far. Hooray!!!! Are his pieces of meat whole now or are you still cutting them up for him? His menu seems a little chicken/CGH heavy. Is there any other kind of bone in meat you can get? Leela and Flexie are free roam. Do they have a cage? Are they ever caged? Mitch and Mango have their own ferret nation unit. I have an FN-142, and they each get one level. They do get free time outside their cage for 30 min. to an hour in the morning, before I go to work, and after I get home, about 4 hours. That's when I worry that they might eat Flexie's kibble. Until we get her off that kibble, you can just pick it up during their playtime. She should be fine without food available during that time. In the kitchen. I have a boot mat, and that's where water and food are. They also have a cardboard box in the kitchen that I use as a feeding den. Do they use the feeding den? Mitch eats in my lap. Spoiled boy, lol Mango eats in his cage during the day. He ONLY eats in the cage or sometimes he eats in the kitchen too? For the ones who are already eating raw, what proteins have they had? Mango eats chicken, quail, CGH, pork, turkey and beef. Mitch eats chicken "soup," ground rabbit and ground duck. (These are commercial grinds from MyPetCarnivore.) Leela eats the same proteins as Mitch, in her FDR. Are you wanting to continue incorporating the grinds and FDR into their diet or eliminate them altogether? They all go nuts over ferretone. Ferretone is really not good for them. Try cutting the Ferretone with salmon oil. Start with a fairly high ratio and gradually increase the amount of salmon oil until Flexie will take the salmon oil on its own. Mitch and Mango love beaten eggs as occasional treats. I have not tried it with Leela and Flexie.Eggs are very healthy and good to help prevent hairballs from forming. They can have the equivalent of one chicken egg per ferret per week. We'll work on that with the girls. Someone I remember is on slivers. What size are they? Mitch- his slivers have to be thin. He will eat index finger size slivers if they are thin, but he won't eat pinky finger sized sliver if they are diced chunks. But he will eat bigger chunks if he's hungry enough. I didn't feed him until 3.5 hours past their feeding time this morning, and he ate a couple bone-in CGH chunks from Mango's plate. Aha! Busted!! If he ate bone this morning, it's time to push him ahead. How do you feel about a little tough love? Not that we'll necessarily need to use it, just getting your opinion. Leela- she eats the same soup that I make for Mitch. (Plus she needs FDR in it) She doesn't seem to mind the slivers. She will eat whatever is in it. In fact, this morning I threw a couple pieces of quail in the mix, and she ate it no problem. Leela is playing you. She will eat slivers and yet is demanding FDR in soup. Do you have access to all the organs and hearts you need? I can get chicken livers, chicken hearts and pork kidneys at a local meat store. I have bought beef liver, but they did not like it. I have asked around for pork brains, but no luck yet. These are fine, but more is better. Just like with the other meats, the more variety you can get in the organs, the more complete their nutrition will be. But you've met the minimum requirement, so don't worry if you can't find anything else. Do you have a list of proteins that you can get for them? I think it's on the soupie recipe doc that Sherry created. Is there another one? I meant have you checked (and made a list) of what YOU can access as far as bone in meat and muscle meat. You covered the organs and heart above. You have 5 proteins listed in Mango's menu. Are those the only proteins you can get or are there others that you just haven't tried yet? I had an unofficial thread, and I jotted down my food journal there. I read through the thread. For your food journal, you don't need to post it and it doesn't need to be fancy. It does need to include for each ferret: kind of food, amount eaten (not amount served), poops afterwards, activity levels, weight once a week. A meal is everything eaten in a 12 hour span, so breakfast includes whatever you give them in the morning plus anything they eat on their own during the day. To determine the amount eaten, you just weigh the food before you serve it, weigh whatever is left over when you serve the next meal, and subtract. This serves two purposes. It tells you how much they're eating so you can adjust the amount you serve and not have a lot of waste, and it gives you a reference for the future when you get worried about seasonal changes.
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Post by gfountain on Feb 21, 2015 22:48:55 GMT -5
OK, let's start with the hardest one first... Flexie. What have you tried on her, FDR I know. Soup? Is it the texture that she objects to or the taste, or can you tell? She's a little older, so more set in her ways but it IS possible to switch her if you're more stubborn than she is. I'm going to assume that you tried the soup and she wouldn't eat it, so with her let's approach this a little differently. For her next meal, mix some warm water with her kibble. Don't fix too much of this kibble soup because it will go bad quickly. Just fix enough for one meal, so about an ounce and a half. Throw away anything that she doesn't eat and leave dry kibble in the cage for during the day.
I'm not sure what to tell you yet about the others until I know a little more about why they're still having soup and what size their slivers are. The easiest way to describe slivers is to just take a picture. Put something beside the dish for reference.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 23:51:42 GMT -5
Thanks, Gina. I will try the kibble-paste method tomorrow morning. I will take pictures of their slivers too. I just wasn't sure how to describe the size. I wanted to post their weight and pics before leaving the PC for the night. Is there a particular time of the day when I should weigh them? Their weight could fluctuate if I weight them before or after a meal, etc. Also, I record in metric system to be more accurate. Do you prefer it in English system? Leela-733 g Flexie- 890 g Mitch- 1894 g Mango- 1894 g Ok, I'm off to bed...
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Post by gfountain on Feb 22, 2015 12:13:44 GMT -5
I just realized that I didn't tell you the plan for Flexie, just told you to make kibble soup, lol. This raw 'poison' that we want her to eat not only has a strange new taste, it has a texture that she isn't used to. Taste and texture are the two big hurdles that we have to overcome. The first step of the switch is soup, which is new taste AND new texture. Since she's being stubborn, we'll start very slowly with her, introducing only one new thing at a time, in this case, texture. By making a soup from her kibble, the taste is the same and the only new thing is the texture, more liquid. We want to increase the amount of water in the kibble soup until it's like a thick gravy. You may need to dab this stuff on or in her mouth so she'll understand that it's her food. Once she's eating this soup without fuss, we'll start very slowly adding raw soup to it, a teaspoon at a time to start getting used to the taste of chicken. The texture of the raw soup will still be a little different but if it's added slowly enough, she shouldn't be bothered by it. It may take several days (or weeks) just to get her on the raw soup, so be ready for a long drawn out battle of wills with her.
I do prefer ounces just because I'm more familiar with them. But I have a conversion table sitting beside my computer so grams are fine. I'll just convert them on my end. It doesn't matter too much when you weigh them as long as it's about the same time of day each time.
Next time you take pictures, take them 'dangling'. Hold them under their arms and let their bodies hang. It's easier with two people, lol. I need to see them from the front, belly side toward the camera. Dangling them is the best way to judge their weight, especially during seasonal changes when the ounces (grams) are changing rapidly. Their bodies should look like tubes in this position. If they're pear-shaped, they're overweight or still on kibble; if they have a waistline, they're too thin.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 19:34:17 GMT -5
I have some pictures and food journal that I want to post, but I have to say this now.
Mango just had a very loose tarry poop. It's pitch black.
He did not want to eat breakfast this morning, but I figured that he would eat when he wants to. He does this occasionally. He doesn't usually eat the whole thing I give him, but he eats about 0.5 ounces at a time, and he likes to split the meal. He normally eventually eats the whole meal before the next one.
But today he didn't eat the quail at all, and he just had 1.0 oz of steak for dinner.
Should I start blockage protocol? I don't know if he chewed or ate anything he's not supposed to though.
He squeaked when I picked him up and tried to push on his belly. No teeth grinding, and he is playful.
I do have a can of pure pumpkin and ferret lax handy.
If he poop doesn't improve, I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 20:42:51 GMT -5
Ok, I'm taking him to the doctor first thing in the morning. I was playing with him with his favorite toy. He was very playful as always, and enjoying his high-speed chase. Then he goes to a corner, and made the same kind of very liquidy tarry poop again! I am not doing the blockage protocol, as I don't know why this is happening. He really seems fine otherwise, (No pawing at the mouth, no grinding, no other signs of ulcer at all) but I will continue to worry until I know what's wrong with him. I cannot wait to be told by the vet that raw diet is dangerous. *Sigh* (He told me this before.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 21:48:35 GMT -5
I understand the reason for leaving the FDR for her, but if she's eating good size slivers, why is she still getting soup? Will she not eat the slivers WITHOUT soup? Will she eat her slivers on her own or do you have to hand feed her?
She eats slivers ONLY IF they are smothered in FDR "gravy". I tried something different today: I snuck in some very tiny pieces of beef steak in her FDR, but she ate around it. She ate the diced chicken hearts that I put in there though. She seems to eat slivers if it's chicken or quail. (And CGH counts as chicken, right? It's just a small chicken? The package says "Cornish hen.")
Again, why the soup if he eats slivers? Not criticizing, just need to understand why. What kind of dish are you using for him? He does not eat slivers by themselves. He does not eat his soup if it's too chunky. Sometimes he eats around the slivers, so I have to shove it in his mouth. He has been on soup for three months, and he has not made much progress at all. How can I make him eat slivers without soup? I use a glass bowl when I hand-feed him, but I use a plate if I leave food for him in his cage. He still does not like to eat on his own in the cage. Awww. This is the one who had hip surgery as a kit? What was/is wrong with him?When Mitch was around 3 months old, I noticed that he started dragging his hind legs, so I took him to the vet. I was so shocked to find out that his hips were broken! The head of the femur on both sides were broken and completely detached from the joint. He had a surgery on the left side to remove the broken piece of bone. It didn't improve his walking ability at all, so the vet did not see the benefit of doing the surgery on the right side. He went through physical therapy for 12 weeks, and as a result, he can walk now. The scar tissue formed around the hips are essentially acting as joints, and holding his legs up. He wobbles, but that's better than dragging his back legs using the upper body... He is a trooper! Hooray!!!! Are his pieces of meat whole now or are you still cutting them up for him? His menu seems a little chicken/CGH heavy. Is there any other kind of bone in meat you can get?I am cutting them up in small pieces. I'd like to gradually increase the size, until I can just give him a whole wing, so I don't have to do the work. lol I tried turkey wings, but they seem a little bit to big for me to chop up with a cleaver. The bone is very thick. Do you have any other bone-in protein source suggestion? Do they (Leela and Flexie) have a cage? Are they ever caged?Well, they HAD a cage, but the boys live there now. Leela and Flexie are never caged. Flexie used to be a cage rager, and it's better that she's free all the time. They have multiple beds, igloo, and a carrier with lots of blankets in them, so they can sleep wherever they want to. Do they use the feeding den?Yes! Mango likes to take his food there, when he eats outside of his cage. Leela recently started using the den too, as I'm gradually increasing the amount of slivers. Mango ONLY eats in the cage or sometimes he eats in the kitchen too?Both. When he eats outside the cage, I watch him eat to make sure he is actually eating, and not stashing everything. A while back, I discovered a MASSIVE stash behind the TV, so he is under very close surveillance now. (No wonder my living room had a foul smell and I didn't know where it was coming from.) Are you wanting to continue incorporating the grinds and FDR into their diet or eliminate them altogether?Well, my initial goal was to put everyone strictly on Frankenpry. But I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel right now... I might give in and say Flexie can have commercial grinds and FDR. But everyone else will be on Frankenprey. Ferretone is really not good for them. Try cutting the Ferretone with salmon oil. Start with a fairly high ratio and gradually increase the amount of salmon oil until Flexie will take the salmon oil on its own. I will introduce salmon oil to Flexie this week. Hopefully she'll change her mind about it being poison. Aha! Busted!! If he ate bone this morning, it's time to push him ahead. How do you feel about a little tough love? Not that we'll necessarily need to use it, just getting your opinion.I have actually known that he was capable of eating bone for a while... I had to put Mitch and Mango together in a playpen over Thanksgiving (we stayed at our relative's house). Because we were away from home, I wanted to make things simple, and I fed them the same food. Mitch was refusing to eat at first, but he wasn't going to starve himself. He ate some of Mango's Frankenprey menu. Lazy Mitch was holding out for easier-to-eat food, like hearts. But eventually he did eat some bone-in. Maybe the problem is me. I'm overprotective and I have to make sure that he is eating enough. I hand-feed him twice everyday. Maybe it is time for tough love. I meant have you checked (and made a list) of what YOU can access as far as bone in meat and muscle meat. You covered the organs and heart above. You have 5 proteins listed in Mango's menu. Are those the only proteins you can get or are there others that you just haven't tried yet?I just haven't tried others. I know my local market has rabbits, and sometimes pheasants. Lamb is pretty expensive, and they didn't like it when I bought ground lamb from Mypetcarnivore. Do you have suggestions for what else to look for? I need more ideas for bone-in meat. For your food journal, you don't need to post it and it doesn't need to be fancy. It does need to include for each ferret: kind of food, amount eaten (not amount served), poops afterwards, activity levels, weight once a week. How often do I need to post? Everyday? I usually send whatever Mango doesn't eat in front of me with him when he goes to his cage for the night. Can I post the next day?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2015 22:02:02 GMT -5
Leela- normal activity level, normal poop. - 1.0 oz FDR + ground rabbit
- 0.8 oz FDR + chicken hearts
Flexie- slept all day, normal kibble poop - A few licks of kibble paste
- 0.8 oz kibble paste
Mitch- normal activity level, normal poop - 2.4 oz. raw soup + chicken thigh slivers + commercial ground rabbit (Just to give him different protein)
- 1.5 oz. raw soup + chicken hearts slivers + beef steak slivers (He ate around the beef, but ate the hearts.)
Mango- normal activity level, tarry poop- taking him to the vet tomorrow morning - a few chunks of quail, ate very little
- 1.2 oz. beef steak
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Post by gfountain on Feb 22, 2015 23:02:46 GMT -5
What did Mango have to eat before the tarry poops started? The dark, loose, tarry stools are usually caused by blood either in their food or from an ulcer. If he had a blood rich meal like organs or heart before the funky poops that could be the cause. Beef could possibly cause darker stools also. It doesn't sound like a blockage though. I would not mention the raw diet to the vet unless he asks. It's just not worth the argument.
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