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Post by unclejoe on Feb 16, 2015 19:58:09 GMT -5
IMO, he should have his bg tested periodically at his age anyway. I agree that it's better to wait until you have to put him on pred. Pred is a steroid and has side effects, as do most meds. If he was consistently below 75-80 I'd start him. As I said, you could do it yourself. A Tru2Go meter with 10 strips cost $10. Walmart has 50 test strips for $35. There you have up to 60 home tests for the price of one vet visit or less. We found that sticking the side of a toe rather than the pad gets much better results.
Some ferts can adjust to lower bg levels, but the risk of a fatal crash is there if you wait too long. The first time we saw mild seizures in Kahlua and Boodles Kahlua was at 28 and Boo was in the 40s, so they must have had insulinoma for some time w/o showing signs. I've know a couple ferts who died from their first crash. Keep an eye on him and keep some corn syrup or honey on hand just in case.
Now that our vet trusts our experience she wrote a script for prenisilone syrup with unlimited refills (prn)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 20:03:47 GMT -5
My Juliet died from her first seizure Her BG 3 hr after eating while on raw was 72 mg/dl. We started her on 0.1 ml Prednisolone, a week later went to 0.2 ml then to 0.3 ml. 1 month later she was doing good, but one morning she went too long without eating, her BG dropped and she crashed. She seized for over an hour. It was Thanksgiving day and I had given her Karo syrup, still seizing, an ER vet visit and her BG read at over 300 mg/dl due to the karo, a Dexamethasone shot and we took her home. For 2 days I had to feed her every 2 hours day and night around the clock. She got worse, and it was too late. We had to let her go. This, is why I am so against not providing medical treatment to an animal that needs it. I've seen the worst, and it's avoidable. Just a call to the Vet and a visit with a prescription fill, could save a pets life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 20:09:44 GMT -5
I myself wish I would have known these things way ahead. My Ozzy never showed any symptoms, back then he was only partially raw fed. He was almost 5 when it happened. Extreme weight loss within a week, and the day before the vet visit he stayed up until I was awake to kiss me goodbye. He tried to get up and come to me but his hind legs were failing. He had a first seizure and was gone in 5 minutes, before even managing to get to an emergency.
If you catch it way ahead, it's manageable for a long time, and I agree that a raw diet does balance him a lot more, and of course medication.
Best of luck and health wishes to your little guy!
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Post by msav on Feb 16, 2015 23:46:15 GMT -5
IMO.
all of those things should be in a ferret first aid kit for any age ferret. it is cheap insurance.
by all of those things I mean, BG tester, corn syrup/honey, ect. I would even keep some pred, I think If IRC it had a shelf life of 6 months to a year. A yearly BG test (probably better every 6 months) would be good since then you would see how it is trending for each ferret. But most like me never really think about getting one done when they are healthy.
I never could get any blood out of Hammie. always had to have the vet do it. Also every time you take a ferret to a vet to get a test done it is when they are sick and probably has refused eating, this could cause a incorrect diagnosis, This was the case with Hammie, never had one done when he was not sick. I have 2 healthy ferrets going on 7 years old, they will be getting all tests done next month while healthy (I hope).
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Post by unclejoe on Feb 17, 2015 9:50:22 GMT -5
Since my first case of lymphoma I've always had pred in the house. After Larry passed, I kept his remaining pred. A few months later, I noticed Icy had lost a lot of weight and was not eating. Of course this was on a Friday night. I started him on pred and took him in on MOnday. The pred may have saved him. His bg was 60 after 2 days on pred. He started eating 24 hrs after his first dose. So, yeah, if you can get a script for it and keep it on hand, it may save a trip to an emergency vet. But I wouldn't just start giving it to him unless tests show it's needed and/or he shows signs again. Then you need to recheck periodically to adjust dosage.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 10:07:44 GMT -5
I did a blood sugar test on my senior while healthy. I need to do one on my annabelle, That is a great idea Msav instead of waiting until they r sick, then getting an inaccurate reading. (idea)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 10:22:26 GMT -5
I wanna thank everyone for responding I really appreciate your advice and stories. I have had karo syrup on hand since his first episode but thankfully haven't needed to use it. I'm definitely going to get a bg meter, I never would have thought to take it myself. When I called my vet for an appt I also asked to send me his blood work from November because I was curious, I haven't gotten it yet but I vaguely remember it being 70s that night. I also think changing his diet would be good, I've always known kibble (Marshalls) is not great but thats what almost everyone I know feeds their ferrets, I assumed it couldn't be that bad but I definitely know now. I don't think I could swing a raw diet right now unfortunately, but I absolutely would like to have him on a healthier diet. Is there a middle ground?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 11:37:11 GMT -5
Oh I am so sorry you had to experience that While I do not have an insulinoma baby, I was worried that my Zoey had it back in May 2014. We had a great vet, about 10 minutes away from us, who saw ferrets but did not specialize in them. When Zoey started staring into space and flat ferreting on a regular basis, I got freaked out. She had not turned 3years old yet and was my first ferret (and now we have 5 ferrets total=ferret math, hehe!) I heard great things about a vet who specialized in ferrets, but she was over an hour away from us! I made an appointment to get her BG tested only to find out Zoey was adrenal! We got her BG tested (low 90's, I think it was 92) and the vet wanted to test her BG a month later since it was on the low end. Zoey was on kibble and LOVED those dang Bandit treats. She would not eat babyfood and I figured raw would be too difficult. I looked up the raw soupie receipe and thought I would try it. It took a lot of time, patience, persistence, and tough love But now all 5 of my kids are strictly raw and Zoey's last BG, in Septemeber, was 106! Take a look at the intro to raw. You could make the soupie and freeze them in an ice tray so you don't waste a whole batch. Each evening you could try the raw soup and see how it goes? It really is amazing to see the difference between kibble and raw fed ferrets-not just appearance, but the energy and spark in their eyes! I'm still so overjoyed at the results! Any questions you have, ask away! We're here to help and listen!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 12:41:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 22:51:23 GMT -5
That chart is SO helpful thanks! After talking it over today I think doing a raw diet is really the obvious way I should go. I'm not sure I can fully commit to it right now but I'm gonna do my best. I've been reading a lot on here today and I don't know where to start but I'm pretty excited about it now. Just want my little guy to be happy and healthy! Thanks everyone for your feedback, you guys are really great! Would not have expected to want to put him on a raw diet when I posted but I'm really glad.
Question- I saw a lot on here that people's vets aren't crazy about a raw diet. Is there a good way to go about this in terms of my vet? One of the vets I see is into more homeopathic treatments so I'm hoping he will be knowledgable at best and understanding at least.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 23:01:02 GMT -5
Thank you, it's a work in progress That's wonderful that you are considering doing raw. It really is the best diet for them, and with commitment and dedication on your part any ferret can be switched. You can sign up for the mentoring program, a mentor is someone who works one-on-one with you in your own thread (only you and your mentor can post in it) and guides you through the switch. There is a waiting list so while you're waiting you can go ahead and read, learn, ask questions, get involved and get started. You can make your own unofficial switching thread also, all the mentors and members will pop in and offer advice along the way. Start by reading the files/forums in the "Natural Diet" section, don't hesitate to ask questions, there are no stupid questions There is a lot to raw feeding but here is a quick general run-down of Frankenprey which is the most popular feeding option it seems. Frankenprey is just mostly store-bought meat. Frankenprey is weekly- 7-9 Bone-in Meals 3-4 Muscle Meals Half Liver & Half Other Organ Half Heart, 1/4 Liver and 1/4 Other Organ 1 Meal of Hearts At least one Red Meat meal A minimum of 3 different proteins Edible Bone-In Meat is the non-weight bearing bones of the animal the size of a chicken or smaller. Muscle Meat is any meat not containing bone, remember that Heart is a muscle and must be one of the muscle meals. "Other" organ is any organ that secretes, Kidney, Spleen, Pancreas, Brain, Thymus, etc. Here is a sample menu that you can fill out to help you learn - Monday AM: Half Heart - 1/4 Liver - 1/4 Other Organ Monday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Tuesday AM: Muscle Meal Tuesday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Wednesday AM: Muscle Meal Wednesday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal Thursday AM: Edible Bone-In Thursday PM: Half Liver - Half Other Organ Friday AM: Edible Bone-In Meal Friday PM: Muscle Meal Saturday AM: Edible Bone-In Meal Saturday PM: Edible Bone-In Sunday AM: Muscle Meal Sunday PM: Edible Bone-In Meal You can find organs, hearts, and meats like quail and such at most any Asian/Hispanic market. In the beginning of the switch we like to do one protein at a time, usually we do chicken because it's generally most easily taken, found and the cheapest meat. If you introduce too many proteins in a short period and your ferret has an allergy, you won't know which protein it is they are allergic to. Food allergies are usually detected from projectile vomiting and diarrhea, but they can be a bit subtle too and can be your ferret chewing, having runny/odd poos, etc, not very common but possible. I know it may seem a bit overwhelming at first and trust me we've ALL been there. This stuff seemed to be in another language to me when I first started, and now it's easy as pie.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 19:43:23 GMT -5
Call it intuition I guess, but my little guy had his second seizure yesterday around 5am. I woke up seemingly out of nowhere and I noticed across the room he very quietly was making some weird noises and kinda knew something was up. He was acting normal except the noises for about 20 minutes, then all of the sudden started freaking out, sounded like he was having a violent sneeze attack almost for about 10 seconds, and then pancaked on the floor. Paws and nose turned bright red. I gave him karo syrup immediately and he was back to normal within 10 minutes. Definitely nowhere near as bad as last time thankfully. Very scary, I'm very glad I have already made an appt with the vet for this week, I only wish I could have gone last week. I just wanted to thank everyone who posted, because I definitely was able to remain much more calm than I would have anticipated because of your stories and advice because I know what I need to do now moving forward, rather than be super panicky about whats next. On a lighter note- these ferret smilies are the cutest things I have ever seen
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2015 12:36:53 GMT -5
How is he today?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2015 16:24:09 GMT -5
Thanks for asking- I brought him to the vet on Friday and my vet strongly felt he should not be on medication yet. He said 2 seizures in 4 months was not bad and from a physical exam he seemed okay, and his bg was 75, which he felt was not low enough. I was pretty frustrated with him but he really felt strongly that for a 6+ year old ferret he was healthy, and didn't want to put him on medication and risk side effects. He said that he thinks right now the thing to do is definitely to get him on a diet that will maintain his bg so he doesn't have frequent crashes and we talked a lot about that. If/when he gets worse or his bg is dropping, we'll revisit it. On a day to day basis he is pretty much normal and happy- a little more active than he had been in the past few months too. He also has put on weight in the past month. I'm not super comfortable with what the vet said, but I guess that's what is going on for now. Hopefully a diet change will stabilize him for a while, and I'm going to start monitoring his bg regularly and keep in contact with my vet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 13:44:32 GMT -5
Personally with his age and the fact he has had 2 seizures I do think he should be on medication. 6-7 years is senior and it's all about making life more comfortable and worth living to them, if he's always tired/and or seizes even every other month that isn't comfortable. Seizing takes a lot out of them and being tired anyway makes it worse. My girl was 7 yrs old and her BG came back at 72, my Vet didn't want to start her on meds, but I told him that I know my ferret, she's tired, she's been through a lot, and she deserves to live however long she has happy and without having to feel lethargic all the time. So, he wrote a prescription and in less than a week she was a new ferret. When the benefits outweigh the side effects is what you look for. Ferrets are bouncy, playful, curious creatures. Look at him and make sure you KNOW he is still able to play and dance and have the time of his life in the condition he is in now. If he can, then yeah hold off on meds. If he can't? Well I think we all know the answer to that, try your best to control with medication, and he will tell you when his fight is over.
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