Insulinoma symptoms but vet said he is healthy?

[Deleted]

Hi everyone,

I have a 6 year old ferret who (thankfully) has been pretty healthy his whole life. However in November one night he was making some noises from across the room and when I went to get him he was very limp and fell over. Turned the light on and he was foaming at the mouth, paws bright red, and unresponsive and weak. Etc etc etc, brought him to a vet at like 2am, they said his temp was insanely low and it was a seizure and he probably had insulinoma.

When I picked him up they gave him a clean bill of health somehow after calling me at least 5 different times with different diagnosis's (insulinoma, lymphoma, enlarged liver). I didn’t press the issue because it wasn’t my usual vet. I brought him to my regular vet finally a week or so later who looked at the blood work they had done and did a physical exam. He said that the episode he had was definitely symptomatic of insulinoma, and that his blood glucose was slightly low. He didn’t want to start with medications because it was only one episode and just to watch him, as he said it could have been a “fluke.”

Anyways- fast forward, its February, he hasn’t had another episode or any very obvious symptoms. He is definitely lazy, he has been dead sleeping more often, but that could also just be me watching him so carefully that I just notice it more often. Don’t know if any of this is relevant but I think he’s also been a little more vocal especially in his sleep, but again, maybe just noticing more. He also had rat tail since August that out of nowhere started to thicken up last month.

I want to think everything is okay, and it has been for a few months, but I’m definitely still nervous and I watch him like crazy. Do you guys think it was a fluke, or do you think it was just the beginning stages of insulinoma that just hasn’t reared its head again yet?

[Deleted]

If he had a low BG and a seizure he should've been put on medication. No, they don't have "flukes" they have episodes due to tumors on their pancreas that over produce insulin and those tumors do not go away, without treatment they get worse, and not being on medication he is risking another crash unfortunately. Call your Vet asap, and tell him you want to start your ferret on medication as his symptoms are there. Ask for a prescription of LIQUID Prednisolone (liquid is easier than tablets) and what dose for his weight. You'll be giving it to him every 12 hours, for the rest of his life. It will begin helping within 2-10 days or so.

Make sure he is eating often, he absolutely HAS to be eating at least every 4-5 hrs. And make sure he eats 20-30 min BEFORE giving his Pred to him, that will help prevent ulcers. What is his current diet? A raw fed ferrets BG will be much more stable and better controlled, the carbs in kibble cause their BG to bounce up and down, on raw their BG is much more stablized and their life is prolonged and their medicine dosage probably won't need to be as high either (which can prolong life, once you hit the max dose, they may not have very much longer). But honestly, he really should be on medicine ASAP.

[unclejoe]

I would at least have my regular vet recheck his blood glucose. We've had some older ferrets and some of them slow down and sleep more and some have been active until the day they passed. If he does have insulinoma, you could buy a test kit and monitor his BG levels yourself, if you don't mind learning how and dealing with a tiny drop of blood.

[Deleted]

My senior ferret bg fasting was 89.


. My vetsaid 90---120 was norm. What do you guys think?

[msav]

If this was an emergency vet, they may have ran the blood panel as dog or cat. They may not have a ferret panel.

Last time I took a ferret to an emergency vet, that is what they told me and suggested that I get one done at my regular ferret vet.

[Deleted]

She was an exotic vet(she was not concerned because it was on border).

Maybe I am worrying too much. Since i never researched bg norms for ferrets----was wondering what numbers you guys had for normal before googling it. I think Jules has a 85-120.

[Deleted]

Hi Jules, thanks for all that info. I've been lurking here for a while and have been reading a lot of the insulinoma threads since this happened, so I've been reading a lot about the medication. He is kibble fed, and definitely eats every 4-5ish hours. I went to an emergency vet originally who knew about ferrets but was not an expert, but my regular vet is. I was honestly shocked when he thought he shouldn't be medicated. He said his bg was just on the border of being low, I'm not sure what that number was right now. He wanted to wait to see if/when another episode would happen. I felt uneasy about it but agreed, fully expecting another 2am vet trip.

Its been 3 months since then he's been fine and normal. Is that normal for it to be so long between episodes or for symptoms to appear? Does it start really slow? My vet has always made me feel very confident, but obviously I don't want to ignore a problem and do any harm to my little guy, which is why I thought I would ask here to anyone who has been through this.

[Deleted]

I just read about the rat tail - has that fully recovered alone or was he on some medication? Also, was there any hair loss anywhere else? Because that would hint to adrenal as well

[Deleted]

Rat tail is fully recovered and thick, no medication. No hair loss anywhere else. It seemed like he started losing his summer coat before he started getting his winter coat basically, which took longer to fill in on his tail. My vet didn't think much of it, nothing in testing pointed towards adrenal if I recall correctly. I think I'm just hyper aware of anything even slightly off right now so it could be totally unrelated and inconsequential.

[gfountain]

Rat tail is pretty common. It's basically caused by blackheads on the tail and usually resolves on its own when the new coat grows in.

[Deleted]

I'm sorry about your little guy. What you're going thru sounds alot like what I went thru with my Ponce.
First Ponce started sleeping more. He was six and we had removed his favorite chair downstairs, so we put it down to that. Then in January ( a few years ago), he began blanking out/staring into space. Once or twice, I noticed some hind leg weakness.
We had just moved to Tennessee (leaving our very ferret savvy vet behind) and I had a hard time finding a vet who was familiar with ferrets. We found a vet to see him and did a fasting blood test. His numbers were a little low. She prescribed a course of antibiotics. The symptoms went away.

In March, they came back. Ponce never had a seizure, but he lost more and more of his mobility. We took him back to the vet and put him on Prednisolone. That's when she also found that he had lymphoma.
He was almost seven and surgery or chemo, were not an option.
That's when I found the Forum. I also tried Diazoxide with the Pred.
We lost our Ponce a few weeks later to the lymphoma.

Here is a very good link on Insulinoma. It can be managed, but not reversed. The more that you learn about it, the better his chances are. Pick up some karo syrup and if he has another seizure, put a little on his gums and that will help bring him out of it.

holisticferret60.proboards.com/thread/2702

All my best to you and your little guy.

[Deleted]

Yes they can have a seizure then not have one again for months. He could have felt bad that day and not have eaten, then crashed. Regardless, he should be on medicine for this. You risk another crash with every day he goes being untreated, and trust me when I say you do not want it to happen repeatedly. If not treated Insulinoma can and will spread, it's cancer, that's what cancer does. My Juliet started with Adrenal disease, then Insulinoma, then Lymphoma. Because her Adrenal went untreated. It's the sad and unfortunate truth. Prednisone is dirt cheap and any pharmacy can fill it, your Vet shouldn't have a problem filling the prescription. But seizures don't just "happen" for no reason. And cancer doesn't just go away or get better on it's own.

I'm honestly just trying to help here, I've been through this 3 times and I don't want anyone else having to experience what I did.

[Deleted]

Hi guys, thanks so much for answering. I'm not trying to be defensive or naive if I sound like I am! I don't want to do the wrong thing which is why I posted here. I'm more confused about why my vet (who is an exotics expert and has pet ferrets himself) would give me that prognosis, like I said I was shocked when he didn't want to put him on any medication right away. I've definitely done a lot of research and I totally agree with you guys- just confused why my vet didn't feel the same, and why my little guy has been completely without symptoms for months. I'm going to get an appointment with my vet sometime in the next week or so.

[Deleted]

You're definitely doing the right thing researching and asking questions. Many of us have gone through Insulinoma with our fuzzies some of us many times, and it's a hard subject, we all just want the best for every ferret.

When you take your fuzz to the Vet make sure they check his Blood Glucose levels. It'll be more accurate 3-4 hrs after eating, but don't fast him or take his food away as that's risking a crash. Just letting you know that if he had just eaten it'll be higher.

Some Vets like to wait out symptoms due to the side effects Prednisolone comes with, but it's about quality and not quantity and some don't quite understand that. My Vet seems to think 50-70 mg/dl as a BG reading is just fine but that is most definitely not the case, so I made sure when my girls BG read 72 that he wrote me a prescription of Prednisolone. I knew it was Insulinoma and though he didn't agree he wrote me the prescription, 2 weeks later I called and told him how much better she was feeling, he admitted he was wrong. We have a good relationship, you and your Vet must work together and not against. Try to compromise, but definitely get your boys BG tested, in my opinion if it's above 79 mg/dl, then if you're willing, switching to a raw diet you may not even need medicine for a couple months or longer. A raw diet can be treatment depending on the BG numbers. It will help more than you could ever imagine. If it's high 70's you can try raw as treatment too. Mid 70's or under I would start Pred.

[msav]

Not all ferrets will seize with a low BG. Hammie had low 60's and never had a seizure. Bandit was in the 40's and Lymphoma got him before he ever had a seizure . My first ferret Calvin had seizures a few times a day and he was in the 60's, It all depends on the ferret. And we can only go off of baselines of healthy ferrets.

But I agree in preparedness having the medication means you will be prepared and have the medication for after you have a ferrets first seize.

Nobody would even want to have to watch their baby go through a seizure. When Calvin could not go an hour without a seizure we had to do something.