Gunther's Health

[Deleted]

Hi Everyone.

I'm writing to ask for advice and thoughts concerning some new developments with Gunther's health.  I'm in Bakersfield, CA and there are not many choices for a knowledge ferret vet here. So my vet (whom I really like) has encouraged me to reach out to ferret owners/experts.  She is also seeking advice from colleagues.

Last week Gunther began acting like he was in pain (restless, running, tucked tummy) and started coughing and sneezing really loud and frequently.  Then he swelled up around his neck, arms and chest.  I thought he may have a heart condition. And of course this happened in the middle of the night.  I phoned the emergency vet hospital and found there wasn't a ferret knowledgeable vet on staff that night - meanwhile Gunther settled down and began to eat, drink and poop as normal.  The swelling went down so I decided to wait for my vets office to open.  By the time I took him in, no swelling, no coughing or sneezing and he wasn't nervous and seemed very much himself.  His heart was perfect, along with everything else. She took a blood sample and xrays. I need to say he has also been losing hair on his back since Aug.  Had him checked for Adrenal and everything was normal at that time.

This time the blood tests came back with really high liver enzymes (ALT/ALP).  Everything else is normal.  The X-Rays are all normal with exception that the liver is a bit undersized.  The vet wants to take cells from his liver to determine if he has lymphoma.  BTW he still has no hair on his back and partial on his legs.  Still has hair on his tail.  I'm thinking he may have Adrenal too even though there are no other signs.

Meanwhile, this week he has become lethargic and sleeps a lot.  He is eating (I have him on Wysong Archtype Rabbit), urinating and pooping as normal. But I feel like he is in some pain.  Took him in again yesterday and he has gained a little weight (supplementing with Uncle Jim's Duck Soup).  Vet prescribed Metacam but I'm a bit reluctant to give it to him if he has liver issues.   I'm nervous about having my vet do the procedure because she hasn't done but a few in the past. I feel this becoming is urgent at this point, and I feel like I need definite answers to get him on the right path with meds and or supplements.  My only other option would be to drive him south about 2-4 hours to see an expert.  Sorry - I feel like I'm all over the place with my thoughts because I'm trying to make the right and best decision to get him feeling better and I feel time is critical.

Your thoughts and feedback are greatly appreciated!

[Deleted]

I can't be much of a help regarding his issues, but regarding the Uncle Jim's: I've previously read on here that the "soup" is just wet powdered kibble, so it's not actually good for them. Others with ill ferrets have fed Carnivore Care to help them. I am tagging @julesalot as she is one of the members that I know have used it.

[Deleted]

Thanks elenners. I'm going to order some carnivore care today. I was thinking about starting him on the raw soup - we'll see if he is willing to try something new since he's not feeling too well at the moment.

[Deleted]

Hair loss is a tale-tale sign of Adrenal. Call your Vet and have her order in some Lupron injections to give to him, this is a hormone injection that you give every 4-6 weeks. Do Lupron for 3 months as a trial, if he gets better (I'd bet it all that he will) then continue with it, and when the Deslorelin Implant is back on the market, I'd implant with that as it's less expensive and the Des implant lasts 6 months. Also ask about a Melatonin Implant in conjunction with Lupron/DES as Melatonin will help his hair regrowth. From his hair loss only I say Adrenal, along with everything else, get him treated for it ASAP. You don't want this disease progressing.

Has the Vet tested his Blood Glucose? Below 80 mg/dl and that points to Insulinoma, cancer in the pancreas, usually tiny, microscopic tumors (can be 100's) that cause the body to over-produce Insulin. Treatment is Prednisolone every 12 hours and feeding every 4-6 hours. A raw diet will help tremendously with this and he will be healthier and more hydrated in general. As for Lymphoma, there are lymph nodes in the neck and such areas you were describing, swelling is a sign of Lymphoma. A needle aspirate test can be fairly accurate, but a cheaper alternative is going on and treating with Prednisolone or Dexamethasone, doing a trial and watching his behavior.

Right now, I would treat for Adrenal as soon as you possibly can and have his BG (blood glucose) checked, the BG test is like $10 at your Vets office. If your Vet prescribed Metacam then yes give that, listen to your Vet. You don't want him to be in pain.

I've used Carnivore Care many times, it's heaven-sent IMO. So I highly recommend it. Make sure Gunther is eating at least every 4 hours and is hydrated.

[Heather]

I'm inclined to agree with the adrenal. It does sound like your ferret is adrenal. The Tennessee panel is not used as much as it has a tendency for false negatives. It is much easier and cheaper to do a trial run of lupron or DES implant. No harm is done by this trial and it starts treating immediately.
Your initial set of symptoms sound like an allergic reaction to something. The first has nothing to do with the second. Though the initial swelling may have something to do with the elevated liver enzymes.
From what you've mentioned as symptoms, I don't see insulinoma, though a BG wouldn't hurt.
I'm seeing a lot of adrenal symptoms. You mention you think he's in pain. Please describe what you're seeing. Adrenal is notorious for gastrointestinal ulcers and liver issues often cause mouth ulcers (these will be seen at the back of the throat....takes two to search for these and a ferret who is willing to yawn). Just a few ideas or possibilities.
ciao

[Deleted]

Thank you Julesalot and Heather for all the good info.
His BG has been tested. 3 weeks ago it was at 95 and last week at 85. Still has a healthy appetite. He has not lost weight, in fact I think he has gained a little bit. His urine is normal in frequency and no odor. Stools are normal most of the time, sometimes grainy. They are dark brown though. Not sure if they should be lighter in color. Last night was the first time he had a stool that was loose and had a bit of mucos.

Some of the other symptoms I have noticed in the last few days are stiff back legs (not dragging), last night was the first time I have seen him paw at his mouth. He sounds a little congested. When he eats it almost sounds like he has a hairball - so Heather when you mentioned an ulcer, I'm wondering if that is developing. I'll have the vet check that out tomorrow. I've also noticed he has head tremors when he is sitting still or on his back.
I think he is in pain sometimes (not all the time) because he doesn't like to be touched near his legs or back and occasionally one of his eyes is watering. He doesn't do this all the time, but sometimes he runs around fast like he's nervous and then he hides - which not normal behavior for him. Today he seems fine - meaning I can pick him up and cuddle and kiss his bare spots and he doesn't mind. More like his sweet little self. But he is sleeping a lot more than normal.

So here's my plan for tomorrow:
Get the Lupron injection.
Start him on Prednisolone until we can get the test scheduled.
Start on Carnivore Care
Have his throat checked

A few other questions:
1)I would also like to introduce him to raw so I'll read what I can tonight and do some shopping tomorrow. Do you think its a good idea to start him on raw this weekend or should I wait until he adjusts to the meds?
2)Have you ever given Marine Phytoplankton as a supplement? I have some and was just wondering if you all have experience with it.

Thanks again everyone. I'll post an update after the appt tomorrow.

Gunther's mom

[Heather]

A good balanced diet doesn't need supplementation. I would wait in the supplement end until you're finished with all your tests.
You're change in diet is not probably going to happen overnight, so it will probably not interfere with the meds that you've listed.
ciao

[Deleted]

Gunther had his Metacam last night around 7:00. He was up this morning looking great. No throat episode.

Dr. appt this morning: checked mouth/throat. All is normal. Discussed Lupron/DES implant and prednisolone. She was able to get a quick ultrasound of his liver which looked normal (no masses or spots). Confirmed his left Adrenal gland is enlarged. She is ordering the DES implant. Although it sounds like it may not be available. If not, we will start Lupron. He has a full ultrasound/aspirate scheduled for next Thursday. Dr. felt with findings today that we could wait on the prednisolone until after the next texts since he is taking the Metacam every 24 hours and it would interfere with that med.

I also picked up some "Go! Fit and Free" food today and should have the Carnivore Care tomorrow.
Still reading up on the transition to raw. My goal is to read this weekend and put together a transition plan.

[unclejoe]

You didn't mention blood glucose being tested. Tremors and pawing at the mouth suggest a hypoglycemic seizure...

[Deleted]

unclejoe from an above post she said-
"His BG has been tested. 3 weeks ago it was at 95 and last week at 85."


@debi how is he feeling?

[unclejoe]

my bad

[Deleted]

Hello Everyone.

Sorry for posting so late.

Gunther is doing much better as of today.

I ended up taking him to a specialist in L.A. (2 hours south) last Thursday because my local doctor was having trouble getting Lupron in a small dose and the DES implant would have taken 4 weeks. I didn't want to wait that long because he was getting more lethargic and losing a little bit of weight.

The Dr in LA said Gunther actually looked really good (weight, heart, pancreas, liver was a little bit larger than normal but looked good no spots or masses, and of course adrenal was enlarged - BG was 112)
He was given the implant and instructions for our local Dr going forward. She was also concerned about his elevated liver enzymes and said the only way to confirm or rule out disease would be to aspirate. She felt that would be an unnecessary procedure for now since all of his other readings were so good and it's basically surgery which is always a risk. (Any thoughts on this?)

Gunther's energy level is improving every day and as of yesterday he seems back to his old self - curious, playful and getting into everything he can get is little paws on! His "tremors" are not as bad (Dr said it could have been from lack of energy) and he is more steady on his feet.

So the plan is to keep an eye for any new symptoms, recheck his progress and do blood work again in a few months.

It's been a crazy few weeks for him but I'm so glad he's improving. I am totally blessed for each day I get to have with my furbaby!

I'll get some pics and post them this weekend so we can see his progress.

Debi

[Deleted]

That's great!! (dance) So wonderful to hear he is improving. A BG of 112 is very good. If the Vet doesn't think it'd be a good idea to needle aspriate or surgery then I agree with that, right now just watch and wait, when he goes back for another implant in 6 mo you can have it tested again to see where he's at.