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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 10:00:27 GMT -5
Food wise I think he's fine, there's generally always something small still left in there come next meal time, it's just the organ/liver/heart amounts that I'm worried about (don't want to give him too much liver etc). I gave him 2oz of heart in one meal, he ate it all, it was a huge chunk of heart. It took him HOURS, but is that too much for one meal of heart? As for the red skin, it's just red, not really a rash. Doesn't seem to come and go, only noticed it the other day but he's been itching a lot for several weeks now when I think about it. I don't use any flea preventative on him or my dog, no.. I'm wondering if an elimination diet might be the next step, but in the other thread they're not sure if beef heart is considered a new protein source... That's the newest thing I've given him, or CGH, but I feel he was itching prior to that. He doesn't have any bedding to be washed either
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 24, 2014 10:31:17 GMT -5
The heart will be fine. Taurine is water-soluable, so any overage he consumes will be secreted from his system in urine. The liver is the one that you want to follow the recommended amount more carefully. As for whether beef heart is a new protein source, I would personally say that any part from a new animal is a possible allergen. And not usually the first time they have contact, but the second and/or subsequent exposures.
Do you keep a food diary of what Fez has eaten, his weight, energy, and symptoms? If not, now might be an excellent time to start one. It doesn't have to be fancy...just a little notebook or something. On the first page, I'd jot down the date, his starting weight and any physical data you may have "energy good, playing excitedly, has red skin near shoulders and rear..." Include poops (if we start seeing mucus poops and he hasn't recently had egg or something we know that causes it, we look more carefully. Seedy or tarry poops are another thing to note. Customize it based on what you see. Each meal, write down what you gave him and when. If you notice that the symptoms
You said he has a hammock, yes? I would consider that part of the bedding. He might also like a piece of fabric, a towel, a Tshirt...something soft to burrow into once he's done with bootcamp.
The reason I recommend doing laundry is that you have a new hammock. Sometimes when fabric items are shipped from elsewhere, they are sprayed with "sizing" to make them keep their shape in the packages, and/or insecticide, so they don't get all buggy and unsellable on the trip. My skin son has very pale skin and is sensitive to these things. I have to wash everything for him before he wears/uses it. Doing laundry is generally easier than a food trial (I just throw the ferret stuff in with my regular laundry) so it will help with ruling out allergens.
You rent your dwelling, yes? Are roaches something you can contact your landlord and have an exterminator come? That really doesn't sound healthy for you OR Fez. Lots of people have respiratory reactions to roaches. Revolution for kittens is a good option for ferrets, as is Advantage II or Advantage Multi for fleas (I believe multi and revolution also treat worms).
I know there are lots of suggestions...just take them a bit at a time. We've got time and we can figure this out for Fez.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 13:00:47 GMT -5
Hmm, no I don't have a food diary for him, I might start one this week, tomorrow hopefully. As for poops, I do remember seeing a few very runny poops, like liquid. Not sure if they're considered mucus poops or not. I know there's been a lot of "seedy" ones too, if by seedy we're talking like grain looking in the poop? What does that mean? I'm not sure if any are black and tarry, I mean they all seem to get hard and blacken when sitting out for awhile too. I've got fleece blankets lining the rest of his cage that he no longer has access to, and lots of things to go in his cage once he's done litter box training (which is seeming never ! ) I don't have a laundry on site so I do it all at once every couple of weeks at a laundromat. So that'll be coming up soon so I'll toss his stuff in there as well. Yeah I rent - landlord doesn't care about the roaches or mice, told me it's my problem! Ugh. It's not my problem though, cause people downstairs don't do anything about it either so it doesn't matter how much I try, it's very frustrating and I hate it 5 more months on my lease... ugh. Revolution is a heart worm medicine isn't it? Do ferrets need to be treated for heart worm too? Or is it just a general wormer? I've never needed flea treatment on my dog thankfully so far (knock on wood), but after this winter I might get them both onto something.
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 24, 2014 18:05:07 GMT -5
Revolution does fleas, heartworms, and ear mites. What a terrible landlord you have! Yes, "seedy" poops look like they have birdseed in them. It is caused by incomplete digestion of proteins. Sometimes, its just because you are introducing something new to the system. Sometimes, it is because the ferret's not tolerating that protein. Keep track and if it continues and always seems to happen with a particular meat, we will take a closer look. Black, tarry poops are common and normal after liver, kidney, and heart. Yellowish slimy ones commonly happen after eggs.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 22:51:10 GMT -5
Hmm, I wonder if it's something he's not tolerating.. Could it be anything to do with eating too much of something? I think it's when he gets the chicken stripped necks/backs whatever they're called, cause there's a lot of it. But I'll have to start trying to catch the poops quicker and make note of them along with the food diary thing. I haven't given him any eggs ever either though.
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 25, 2014 23:56:06 GMT -5
Usually if they get too much bone (as in, chicken backs for several meals in a row), the poops get pale, very firm, and almost chalky looking. If you start to see that, then back off the bone-heavy meals and feed muscle meat the next time. If poops get really soft, you can increase bone to form them up. A lot of health clues come from poop, so you'll see a lot of discussions about poop here on the board.
Generally, if there is an intolerance, again, you'll see seedy poop, diarrhea, or mucousy poop. Those are the ones we really need to pay attention to, particularly in light of the skin irritation you have noticed.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 9:00:20 GMT -5
I haven't yet started this food diary/poop watching, I was going to start the poop note-taking once I clean out his litter box. It's been dirty for several days now because he's on a roll with pooping in the box and I didn't want to clean it out and have him stop using it again... Going to partially clean it out tonight and fingers crossed he sticks to it! He always gets on a bit of a roll then I clean it out and litter box training starts all over again... Sigh! But this has been the longest time using it so far, so I've got high hopes!
I am going away later next week though, and I'm wondering about how to take his meat with us? I have a soft padded little cooler thing, which I'm hoping will fit the meat in. The hotel we're staying at has a fridge, maybe a freezer part if I'm lucky. It's just 4 days/3 nights, so would the meat go bad if not frozen those 4 days?
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 26, 2014 16:23:38 GMT -5
Ah...the litterbox. Yes, it usually works to clean it out and leave 1-2 poops in there to remind them where they are supposed to "go" if they are still learning. I don't know how big your litterbox is, but if it is one of those corner ones, you might want to consider tossing it and using a larger rectangular kitty box or plastic bin. Ferts prefer boxes where their entire bodies can fit, rather than just the back end. Foster and I took a while to figure out the litterbox training (we were both new at training for that, as the cats and rats I've had in the past figured it out on their own). When Avery came, he spewed diarrhea all through the cage wires and down the walls for a couple of weeks. It was *awful* and I was second-guessing the addition of another fert. He finally learned and became really *really* good about litterbox usage. When Bubby came, it took ONE time of putting him in the box after seeing Foster and Avery use it. He is the best at box usage when he is roaming, often going back into the cage just to use the facilities. Avery usually uses it before he comes out to roam. Foster is the master of the "faux-poo". He backs up and assumes the position, but doesn't actually go. He tries to fake me out so I'll let him out to run around. I have to tell him "I'll wait" and leave the door closed while I sit there before he will use the box. I would think you should be fine with the meat in a cooler with ice packs for the trip and put into the fridge/freezer when you get there. Basically, if YOU would eat it, HE can eat it. Another option would be to get some freeze dried raw. Then you don't need to worry about refrigeration at all. You just crumble it up into the dish and add some warm water.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 22:36:25 GMT -5
It's a little kitten litter box I think, had no luck with the little corner small animal ones at the beginning haha. He was doing so badly with the rectangle kitten on even too, I'd put his poop in there, and he'd STILL sleep in it!
I spent several hours cutting up more meat tonight. A friend from work brought me a deer heart and a deer liver, her husband went hunting and I told them to keep me the "scraps" haha. I also had found some beef kidney at the store the other day. So I cut them all up, portioned them out. I realized I portioned the last lot of liver and heart into the wrong amounts, as well as some of the chicken stuff... Basically 4oz a meal I had portioned out for some of the days :\ No wonder he's got a bit of a belly! They're usually the ones he doesn't finish anyways, but still. So now we're looking at 2oz each meal, 4oz a day. Gonna see how that goes!
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 29, 2014 23:13:48 GMT -5
Deer is good. Just make sure to freeze any wild meat for a couple of weeks to kill any parasites before feeding it to fez. Also yes, good catch on the portioning, but I wouldn't worry about Fez getting a belly. It is his first winter and he will never again be quite so roly poly and fluffy. Enjoy it! Poor baby sounds confused about the litter box. Just keep working with him and giving him positive reinforcement when you catch him using it correctly. I tell my boys how good they are and that I'm proud of them. They seem to like whatever I say as long as as it is upbeat sounding. lol So how has the "traveling with Fez" adventure been?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2014 10:54:16 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't know that about freezing it for awhile... I'll have to try and remember which part I portioned it all with in the freezer, I think I just added it to the overall "heart" and "liver" tubs I've got in the freezer... Whoops. He definitely is confused on the litter box, this morning I caught him sleeping in it again With some poop under his water dispenser thing. Boo. I'm actually wondering if it's cooler in his litter box rather than in his bed. I noticed my room and bathroom were very very warm this morning, but the living room is freezing. Fez is in my bathroom, so he was in the very warm temps. My apartment is terrible, clearly not blocked off properly in living room for the cold air to stay out, so it's throwing the heater into overdrive I guess. It's only set at 69 but it's much much hotter than that in room & bathroom.. Sigh. So close Fez, so close! We leave this coming thursday for our little travel adventure, hopefully it all goes well!
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 30, 2014 12:22:32 GMT -5
Can you adjust the vent flaps throughout the apt to push more of the heat into the living room and allow less flow to the bed and bath? It's usually fairly easy to do, but might take a couple of tries to get the balance just right.
As for the litter box...just keep working with him. Does he have plenty of optional sleep areas? Like hammies, sleep sacks...sounds like he might appreciate a cuddle cup for Christmas. They are on the floor and open (like a litter box). But soft and comfy.
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Post by kraesmom on Nov 30, 2014 12:25:06 GMT -5
SO, what is the menu for this week? Can you post an updated weight for Fez? How is his itchy skin? Have you started a food diary yet? Do you have any questions?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 0:02:36 GMT -5
I tried adjusting the vent flap things, and somehow made it too cold in my room, so we all froze a bit last night haha.
For the litter box stuff, there's only one sleeping area in a hammock, it's a very small cage I've got him in for the bootcamp and it's really only space for the litter box (taking up half the cage), a hanging hammock, a food dish, and hanging water bottle. It's really uncomfortably small in there. I'm going to switch him back to the entire bottom of the ferret nation cage once we're done with our trip. I found a cheap litter box tray thing at the dollar store today which I'm going to cut a nice entrance way in to and cut holes to zip tie it to the side of the cage, and see if that helps at all.
He weighed in at 2.79lbs last night. I haven't noticed as much scratching of his skin, it looks less red to me but I'm not really sure. Our menu is still the same, are we supposed to change the menu up each week? I was just going to keep looping it, whoops!
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Post by kraesmom on Dec 3, 2014 11:29:27 GMT -5
looping the menu works fine as long as it is balanced, and yours is. I didn't know if you had enough of the same proteins to keep going or if you'd have to rework it from time to time. 2.79 lbs He was 2.58 lbs two weeks ago, so that's good! Glad his skin seems to be improving. Keep an eye on it and let me know if it gets worse again.
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