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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 1:13:30 GMT -5
I haven't read much about this topic, and I figure that this knowledgeable forum is the best place to begin, so here goes:
I currently have my girls transitioning over to a good-quality kibble, but it's lacking in sufficient amounts of taurine. The two were on a ferret-specific food before that had taurine and other vitamins added and this food does not, although it does have real meat as the first 5 ingredients (hallelujah, no more chicken bi-product meal).
Anyway, I was thinking about mixing the dreaded Marshall food in for those nutrients, but then I remembered the amount of taurine available in raw chicken and beef hearts. My girls have had nibbles of raw chicken before, but alas, they were raised for nearly a year on all-kibble and who-knows-how-long before that in a pet store. Also, my budget (and my father's insistence that they don't need 'people food') prevents me from completely switching to raw.
However, when I cook, I have these sorts of bits and pieces floating around. Venison, chicken and turkey necks, lungs and gizzards. Would giving them these things in no particular schedule mess up their digestion? And of course, would it give them loose stools or diarrhea?
Someone on another forum said to make sure the ferrets don't eat kibble 3-4 hours before their raw meal - does this hold any truth?
Thanks!
- savon
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Post by Sherry on Aug 11, 2014 7:47:46 GMT -5
It is true for many that the two shouldn't mix as they can develop a bacterial overload. And may I ask what kibble they are eating?
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Post by racheld on Aug 11, 2014 8:57:03 GMT -5
A quality kibble should meet their taurine requirements. I'm also curious as to what they're on. A good kitten formula kibble should have the taurine they need--orijen or wellness are brands that a few of the folks here feed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 11:51:56 GMT -5
Hi and Welcome to the HFF  It's great that you are trying to feed your two girls, a healthier diet. They will have softer coats, better teeth and nails and alot more energy. Their poos will smell less and be smaller. Everyone is right about separating kibble and raw. Like Sherry said, mixing them will upset their tummies and can cause a bacterial overgrowth. That will mean a vet visit and a course of antibiotics. You're right about Taurine. Ferrets do need a high amount, even a little higher than cats. Taurine is found at its highest levels in hearts. Chicken, beef, pork, any animal heart. Tongue also has a nice high level. Ferrets digest and get more nutrients from raw food than cooked food. So, if you have organs or gibblets from cooking, its best to offer that to them in its fresh and raw form. Ferrets are obligate carnivores, that means they need meat and their bodies aren't designed to process or receive nutrients from fruits/vegetables or grains. Kibble uses some meat and then in order to hold its shape, they bind it together with fruits/vegetables or grains. So, with no disrespect meant for your father, they are eating people food. Just in a different shape. The Frankenprey menu is designed to mimic eating Whole Prey. A ferret in the wild would catch and eat his prey. If he caught a mouse, he would eat all of it. The bones, meat and organs. Since organs are a small part of the animal, our Frankenprey menu only offers organs, twice a week. They do get looser poos on organs, so we follow an organ meal with a bone in meal. The Frankenprey menu will have one meal of just hearts. One meal of Liver plus another organ and One meal of Liver plus another organ plus a half meal of hearts. Its carefully designed to make sure that ferrets receive enough taurine, calcium from bones, and the other nutrients they need from the muscle meats. We also offer at least three different animal meats (proteins) a week. Take a look at the Natural Diet section. You will learn alot and its interesting reading. We have a link to a better quality kibble chart. moredooks.herobo.com/search.php?chart=ferretThe ferrents who feed kibble will usually mix two kibbles together. That way if there is a forumula change or the kibble is discontinued, they have a back up for their finicky ferret. Some ferrents feed commercial raw or freeze dried raw. These are good options, but can be expensive. We're not just about raw feeding, take a look around, talk ferret with the other ferrents and most importantly, we love pictures of everyone's ferrets. So have fun and see you around the forum. (dance) |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 12:27:17 GMT -5
I've never had a problem mixing raw & kibble?? I've fed both for years - kibble during the day, then remove it for a few hours and feed raw. Though I feed pre-made raw and it undergoes various processes to prevent unwanted bacteria growth so there is that, and it may make a difference though I've also fed chicken necks as an occasional treat and never had a problem with them either.
Edit: Forgot I wanted to comment on the kibble choice - I feed Orijen, and rotate all three flavours. He does really well on it and my first vet liked him on it, though the vet I took him to for adrenal disease treatment "strongly disagrees" and thinks I should feed Marshalls instead.... or pretty much anything with "ferret" on the bag. In general I don't take nutrition advice from vets and politely just stated he's been fine on this for years and at this point I have no plans to change his diet.
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Post by raynebc on Aug 11, 2014 13:06:57 GMT -5
They meant not to offer both raw and kibble at the same exact time. Removing one for a couple hours before offering the other as you mentioned is the recommendation. If the vet suggested Marshall's over a high end cat food, he probably just isn't knowledgeable about ferret food and assumed it wouldn't meet the ferret's needs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 16:25:42 GMT -5
My girls are switching over to a feline variety of Taste of the Wild, which has taurine but not as much as Marshall's. I also wanted to mix in a canine variety of Taste of the Wild, just because the meats that are in it are closer to a ferret's natural diet. I actually adopted the girls from a home where they weren't able to be cared for anymore (previous owner was about to go to college - no weasels in the dorm!). It's my first time being a ferrent but I noticed right away that their coats were more oily than they should be, and they were lethargic, which made me look at their food. One of the girls is younger and more open to new food - should I try her on the partial raw first just to see how it works before trying to wrestle with the other one over her kibble? Thank you all so much! It's so wonderful to see people who care so much about their pets. EDIT: Oops! Just looked at the wonderful chart that was posted up there, and noticed how low on the list Taste of the Wild was - below Marshall's! Yikes! I live in a kind of down-home Southern area, and got Taste of the Wild from a local feed store under the guidance of someone that said it was the highest quality they carried. Good thing I signed up here.... EDIT 2: Let's just pretend I meant Wellness CORE, which is what I went out and got after seeing the chart.  |
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Post by Sherry on Aug 11, 2014 17:19:10 GMT -5
Oh good gods, I just checked out the ingredients :pullhair: Definitely do NOT feed that. Instead if you have to feed a kibble, look for Orijen, Go, or Epigen 90 ferret. Freeze dried raw foods are excellent, but do need to be fed rehydrated twice a day and left dry for a bit of grazing during the day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 18:58:37 GMT -5
I live in a rural southern area also. The local pet store, Walmart and Tractor Supply, all carry ferret food and its pretty crummy stuff. You will find the better quality kibbles online or in a Holistic Pet Store.
The Canine formula kibbles will have more veggies/grains and fruits in them. A feline formula will be closer to meeting your ferrets needs. You're right in wanting good proteins and they should have more than one kind of protein, so you're on the right track. Did you know that the primary food for the black footed wild ferret was prairie dog? That's one of the reason, ferrets became endangered in the wild. The Prairie dog population was really hurt by a virus and farmers who don't appreciate the little fellows.
You sound like you're pretty darn smart. Keep doing some reading, don't hesitate to ask questions and your girls will do really well and live long and healthy lives.
One fun fact: did you know that raw fed ferrets smell like grape kool aid?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2014 19:24:12 GMT -5
Do the raw fed ferrets need any supplements? which ones? and why?
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Post by raynebc on Aug 29, 2014 20:41:38 GMT -5
Not so much if you feed an appropriate rotation of different meats, meaty bones and organs, or if you feed whole prey. They'll get pretty much everything they need. Other than that, a controlled amount of salmon/fish oil and raw egg is given for extra benefits such as preventing hairballs and dry skin.
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Post by Sherry on Aug 30, 2014 9:13:58 GMT -5
The only supplements I give are fish oils, EVOO, and reishi mushroom for adrenal itchies. I give egg as a regular part of their diet so I don't count that as a supplement for mine.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2014 11:07:20 GMT -5
Do the raw fed ferrets need any supplements? which ones? and why? The idea behind Frankenprey is to mimic eating whole prey. Their weekly menu is designed to give the correct percentages of Organ. Liver for example provides Vitamin A Muscle meats: Heart is a muscle meat and is one good source for Taurine. Bones provide Calcium and other nutrients Red meat provides Iron and Vitamin B eggs provide Omega 3's and so does fish oil. Eggs also help with hairballs. Choline is a Vitamin Complex B and is found in chicken, beef, eggs, pork and other meat sources. Fat equals energy for ferrets and fatty meat choices, eggs and oil can provide healthy fat. So, a Frankenprey diet provides all the nutrients needed and none of the preservatives or salt found in commercial (kibble) pet foods. |
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