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Hobs
Nov 22, 2012 15:48:57 GMT -5
Post by crazylady on Nov 22, 2012 15:48:57 GMT -5
Hi just a question to throw out there would it mean a kit who was born indoors in jan due to artificial light who would be sexually mature approx aug/ september and yes coming in rut is bound to be born with fertility problems ? simply because his birth and body clock didn't fall into the natural seasons ? because if that is so what about all the ferrets that are forced to breed all year round by some breeders using artificial lights ? some hobs mature early some mature later it all depends on environment and diet and lighting this is how in the wild it possible for some years wild ferrets to have two or more litters if there bodies are ready food is plentiful and the climate is agreeable take care bye for now Bev
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Post by Sherry on Nov 22, 2012 15:56:19 GMT -5
Heather- THANK YOU!!!!!
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 8:10:25 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 8:10:25 GMT -5
Heather, I think your comments are completely out of line. This is the breeders board and should be open to a free exchange of opinions between breeders. You have apparently completely misunderstood a discussion between two breeders...and I think you owe us both an opology.
Now, back to the discussion.
So now I'm really confused, Bev. First you say:
Tico and his brothers lived together until the age of 5 1/2 months all three of them became aggressive towards each other as they came into rut early even though kept in natural light and because Tico was going to heather we decided separation before any serious injuries occurred ( torn necks or cauliflower ears ) as it happened Tico remained in season right up to the time of departure and when he arrived with heather he was still in season."
And in a later post you say:
"He was living in normal lighting outside and he simply matured early due to the time of year he was born his brothers came in at the same time and all went out at the same time they again came in at the correct time for England this year and are now all out."
Tico was born June 3, according to your posts, which I would consider within the normal time frame for ferret litters, especially since UK ferrets come in rut/heat later than they do in the US where the hobs routinely start coming in rut around the middle to end of December and are in full rut a couple months later. The jills start coming in heat from early March on.
So, did he and he and his brothers come in rut around 5 1/2 months and then go out, coming back in again at the normal time in the UK, or did he stay in rut from then on? As I said earlier, my experience with such an early rut (as well as early heats in jills) when they are kept in natural lighting can be an indication of reproductive problems later on.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 8:17:53 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 8:17:53 GMT -5
Hi just a question to throw out there would it mean a kit who was born indoors in jan due to artificial light who would be sexually mature approx aug/ september and yes coming in rut is bound to be born with fertility problems ? simply because his birth and body clock didn't fall into the natural seasons ? because if that is so what about all the ferrets that are forced to breed all year round by some breeders using artificial lights ? Bev Given the actual instances I know of, I would say the answer is yes. Such ferrets, both hobs and jills, do eventually seem to develop the normal timing but are very iffy for breeding until then. I have no idea what the situation is with the commercial breeders in that regard.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 8:37:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2012 8:37:11 GMT -5
Heather, I think your comments are completely out of line. This is the breeders board and should be open to a free exchange of opinions between breeders. You have apparently completely misunderstood a discussion between two breeders...and I think you owe us both an opology. Joan, Heather owes you nothing. You and Bev have been sniping at each other at every opportunity you can and you both purposefully try and start crap with the other. ENOUGH. I for one am tired of having to look at it every other thread regarding breeding or intact ferrets. I for one want to learn about breeding practices without all the petty bickering. If you have nothing nice to say to each other, then don't say anything.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 9:12:06 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 9:12:06 GMT -5
Yurei Avalon, you apparently don't understand that all breeders have differing experiences and opinions. Sharing them is, or should be, beneficial to all. I certainly don't consider that anything Bev has posted was "sniping" at me nor do I think that anything I have posted was "sniping" at her.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 9:24:52 GMT -5
Post by Sherry on Nov 23, 2012 9:24:52 GMT -5
Heather, I think your comments are completely out of line. This is the breeders board and should be open to a free exchange of opinions between breeders. You have apparently completely misunderstood a discussion between two breeders...and I think you owe us both an opology. Heather needs make NO apology! She got to it before I could. The subtle and not so subtle jabs throughout this discussion have really taken away what the rest of us need to hear. This discussion was meant to help the average ferret owner who is going to be dealing with intact ferrets for the first time, and how we can best help them achieve that end. If you care to open another thread for the purpose of "exchanging" ideas, fine. But this one is so we can understand what WE as owners need to do.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 10:06:15 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 10:06:15 GMT -5
If that is indeed the case, Sherry, why don't you transfer Bev's and my posts to another thread, and we can continue the discussion there. If there were any subtle jabs at me, they went completely over my head. I don't do subtle...I say what I mean, no more and no less.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 23, 2012 14:19:41 GMT -5
I will be going though this thread on the weekend. I can copy to a new one and on this one I'll be deleting what we can't use.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 14:28:25 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 14:28:25 GMT -5
Thanks, Sherry. I'm not sure why a thread on dealing with intact hobs was even brought up here, as Mikey's thread on living with an intact hob covers just about everything I can think of that an inexperienced owner would need to be aware of.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 23, 2012 14:56:49 GMT -5
It was brought up so we could get input from a variety of breeders concerning housing etc, and more general info for us as well. Mike's thread on Finn deals with one specific ferret, and let's face it- they are ALL different. Especially when you consider the different backgrounds. Finn comes from a breeder who showed her ferrets. Your's are hybrids. Bev's albinos come from a working background. Different genetics, different locations in the world, different ferrets. Yes, some of the needs are going to be the same, but some will be slightly different as well. And the more information we can have the better prepared we'll be as owners.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 16:28:06 GMT -5
Post by crazylady on Nov 23, 2012 16:28:06 GMT -5
I am quite happy sherry for you to delete all of my posts on the breeding forum time differences are too great one thing I would however like to clear up is my hobs normally come in any time from December onwards ( this is the norm in england ) tico was born the time he was simply because I do not breed on a first season in any year I wait until the jills second season when I know the male is more fertile and the sperm are more active I do not deem a hob mature until he is actually 8-10 months old so in my eyes yes tico was early as I have stated sherry I am quite happy for you to remove all my posts from the breeding board and I will refrain from contributing to the breeding topics I do not wish to cause offence to any other breeders or members thanks take care bye for now Bev
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Post by Sherry on Nov 23, 2012 16:35:43 GMT -5
Bev, you haven't offended anyone here! And we most definitely want and value your input. What I am deleting are the extraneous comments that don't help.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 17:09:59 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 17:09:59 GMT -5
. It was brought up so we could get input from a variety of breeders concerning housing etc, and more general info for us as well. Mike's thread on Finn deals with one specific ferret, and let's face it- they are ALL different. Especially when you consider the different backgrounds. Finn comes from a breeder who showed her ferrets. Your's are hybrids. Bev's albinos come from a working background. Different genetics, different locations in the world, different ferrets. Yes, some of the needs are going to be the same, but some will be slightly different as well. And the more information we can have the better prepared we'll be as owners. I've had "regular" ferret hobs from generations of breeding in the US, plus hybrids from Sweden, the UK (although any polecat behind them is most likely many generations back), and now from the Czech Republic. I've not seen any appreciable differences between them and what I know of breeder ferrets anywhere else in the world, so that the same information pretty much applies to all of them. The differences would be in their personalities and temperaments, and those questions would just about have to be answered on an individual basis.
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Hobs
Nov 23, 2012 17:31:19 GMT -5
Post by joan on Nov 23, 2012 17:31:19 GMT -5
I would however like to clear up is my hobs normally come in any time from December onwards ( this is the norm in england ) I hope you won't be offended by another question, but now I'm confused again and hope you can clarify this. You said earlier, "most of my hobs all tend to come into season around the same time and go out around the same time usually from feb /march to sept/october." That seems to be the norm for all the UK breeders I've been in contact with over the years, so is it common for yours to come in rut in December or January? And is it just the young ones who do that or haven't you seen any particular age or pattern to it?
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