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Post by Sherry on Mar 19, 2011 19:04:48 GMT -5
xeopse, here is the dosage and instructions I got from someone who uses it in their shelter: Hi, Sherry! Humans are to take this on an empty tummy, and not eat for an hour, but for the ferrets, we have always put it right into their soup. They lap it right up. We start ours with 1cc in the morning soup, & 1cc in the evening soup. It is to be refrigerated, but not frozen. Because it makes quite a lot, if you`re not planning on taking it too, you might want to cut the recipe in half. (We do use distilled water.) The stuff is an incredible immune booster. We buy our herbs from Mountain Rose Herbs. They`re organically grown, reliable & reasonable. ALSO-- We have never had an issue with it lowering the BG massively, but we do suggest monitoring them, just in case, if they`re insulinomic. Best wishes! Love, Zoo
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Post by xeopse on Mar 20, 2011 22:24:17 GMT -5
Apparently the health store closes early on the weekends, so I wasn't able to make it in time. BUT I got there this morning and picked up everything I need. I gave her her the Coq-10 and the Red Reishi in her food dish and mixed it in well. They come in these nice little tablets that you just pull apart and the powder just falls out - super easy. I had to leave today to visit my family, so I was gone from 12:30 pm to about 9:00 pm. I came back to her having vomited in what looks like three different places, and some very soft stools. The vomiting is totally new, that is a symptom she's never had before. I put her back on just regular turkey and vegetable (sweet potato, so I didn't add any additional pumpkin like I did yesterday in the canned cat food i gave her) baby food (stage 2) with some powdered eggshell and lots of water so she stays as hydrated as I can keep her. I'm not sure why, but she won't drink out of a dish yet, but she drinks her very liquid diet just fine, but whatever.
I caught her playing in a paperbag yesterday, and again today. She was shredding it before I left to visit my family in Rhode Island. I am going to keep the new stuff to a minimum, although I did give her the Essiac - 1 cc by mouth and a little in her turkey baby food which I hope will settle her stomach and stop the vomiting (that is what slippery elm should do, right? I know others have used it with success for other ferret babies)
If you want to see Lulabelle's updates and pictures, you can add us on facebook under my name, Jacqueline Betty. I have been posting pictures of her daily, especially lately.
Also, I am going to weigh her again tonight or tomorrow. I think she has gained some weight, she is less scrawny. At the vets she was so skinny, just skin and bones, but now she looks like hse's gained some around her ribs and hips over the last few days. She is sleeping a lot, which I suspect will be normal, she looks pretty tired. I took her respiratory rate yesterday while she was awake and it was still pretty high - about 60 bpm, and normal is between 30-40 bpm it looks like. I took it again later that night while she was sleeping, after she had her pred/amoxi dose and eating and it was 40 - that is the lowest it has been in a week. I'm hoping that's good news, it is still labored but it is not as bad as it was. I just checked it again right now while she was sleeping but I woke her up during it, and it was aprox 48 bpm, so still high but not as high as it was. I am still really surprised ot have seen her playing and biting at her paper bag, that was the first time I've really een her active since earlier this week. On Tuesday when she was jst on the amoxi (before anyone thought it was lymphoma) she insisted on going outside with me and Leia, it's the first time I've ever brought her outside to walk... normally I jsut carry her, but that was before the wintertime. She played a little in the dead leaves, and wandered around quite a bit before coming back inside with us. She refused to let me hold her back to the loft either, she walked the ENTIRE way back, sometimes doing her little hop and a skip like she usually does, but not running. So really, since Tuesday this playing in the bag is the only thing I've seen her do. I will put her other toys in there now too, and different kinds of paper bags of course.
So, I have the Coq-10, the Reishi, the Essiac. I am getting the TImmy's TOnic on Tuesday/Wednesday. Anything else I should try? Or any particular dose or combination I should try first? I don't want to overload her,especially sine she threw up thsi afternoon. Suggested soupie recipes? The exotics vet said I needed to give finely ground baby food, which I'm glad because it's cut down on her hoarding... this way I can see exactly what she is eating, and she laps it up way better than what I can get done in the blender (it's chunky, no matter how much water I add to it) but I bought a meat grinder I'd liek to figure out soon. She REALLY likes chicken hearts, so I'm hoping those will go through a grinder well enough.
Thanks so much everyone. I feel bad not giving the other four not as much attention as they deserve, but they have 2 FN 143's put together and lots of new stuff to play with. I don't have the time or sanity to give them supervised floor playtime like usual. Im just exhausted and sick with worry for Lulabelle, I've been staying up to 3 AM some nights making sure she's still breathing. I feel confident it is not her time yet though. The playing, eating, bathroom trends, self-grooming, perkiness... come on, surely if it was her time she wouldn't be giving such positive signs. I feel so crazy =/ The other non-knowledgeable ferret vets make me feel like a jerk, like I am torturing her. I just can't do it, she is just a baby and she does all these things that tell me she can pull through this if I just give her what she needs. I just need to figure out WHAT she needs!
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Post by Heather on Mar 20, 2011 22:54:35 GMT -5
Figuring out which supplements she needs and when is probably going to be a hit and miss. She sounds like the pred is doing it's job though, which is great. I will let others talk to you about dosages and numbers as I have no actual experience with the supplements. Aremis didn't have juvenile lymphomas but had lymphomas, he had a number of remissions before passing on. I suppose I could have used a number of supplements but he responded well to the pred and the occasional antibiotic to help fight off a respiratory infection that seemed to plague him. He led a good quality of life after his diagnosis. He tired easily but played with his friends, Sprite and Fun-Go. Fun-Go worshiped him and would just lay beside him when Aremis wasn't feeling well. He also seemed to derive pleasure in watching the others play. He would lay under the dresser in my bedroom and watch Fun-Go, Sprite and Athos rough and play. They seemed to know that he couldn't keep up but would include him when he joined in but would leave him alone when he was under the dresser. I"m sorry that you're going through this with your beloved little girl. She is a gift to you, to be treasured and loved. Good luck, I'm sure there will be someone in to help you with your supplements shortly ciao
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 20, 2011 23:00:16 GMT -5
Sounds like you are doing everything you can. Btw, about the "red clover formula" it is no longer made as a "timmy's tonic" but as far as i know, Gary does have it. It is called "tumor-be-gone." You just mix a little of the timmys tonic in a bowl of water and mix until it looks like a weak iced tea. Change it out once a day. The red clover is very bitter so you have to use less of that.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 20, 2011 23:13:33 GMT -5
Do you have EVO ferret (or cat/kitten) grain free kibble? I am concerned about the baby food. It may not have all the nutrients, protein and fat that she needs. It is really important that she eats well. I had a ferret that had cancer for a long time. He had cancer in various places and he was a meds for about a year or so. Lots of ups and downs, but I kept him going with this soup (and supplements). I would put EVO in a small tupperware container, filled it 3/4 with EVO kibble and then filled it with water. The next day it is soft and mushy and I'd scoop out about 4 tablespoons, mash it really well with the back of a spoon. Then add water, make it into a thick soup, nuke it in the microwave for about 12 seconds until luke warm (they seem to like their soupies better if it is a little warm). Add your vitamins, supplements, etc (I used to add linatone in it because he loved it). My boy may have had cancer but he sure did love that EVO soup!! I did the same for my ferret that died of cardiomyopathy. Only I added different supplements for him (lots of coq10 and taurine). He was also an EVO soup junkie. LOL.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 20, 2011 23:18:39 GMT -5
One of my ferrets had intestinal lymphoma (which SUCKS) and he also did very well on the EVO kibble soup and various supplements that I put in there. But he couldn't have any timmys tonic bc he also had insulinoma.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 20, 2011 23:28:36 GMT -5
I'm so glad she's showing signs of wanting to stick around a while longer She's such an angel girl I've had some trouble getting the red reishi into Boris as well, but am slowly getting a little more in every day. I'm going to try mixing it into his raw puree that he likes, see how that goes. Actually- If you are grinding her meat for her, just use the kinds she prefers, and the hearts and a liver should go through it really well also. Just add the powdered eggshell in after if it causes a problem for your blender. That way, she gets her vit A from the liver, her taurine(although you can use a taurine supplement for this), as well as her calcium with the eggshell. A pinch or two of reishi shouldn't be as noticible to her then. As for the essiac, the person I got the recipe from said they give 1cc in morning soupies, and in evening soup.
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Post by xeopse on Mar 20, 2011 23:41:09 GMT -5
I asked Gary yesterday, I spoke to him for an hour on the phone about Lulabelle, he had a lot of questions about her and he seemed intrigued. I asked him which Tonic he recommended given her issues, and he said he only carries the one Timmy's Tonic, because the red clover one is extremely difficult to make so there is no more of it without having anyone to produce it for him. =( I was really hoping for that, I read good things about it online. I'm hoping the regular will help her out anyways. I used to feed EVO to my cats when I had them and I will be picking some up tomorrow. Instead of soupiefying the kibble, couldn't I just feed the EVO soft food? She needs the extra moisure anyways, since she is still dehydrated. She has interest in her goat chops (a ferret fav here in this business) and she licks it a lot but she doesn't get anywhere with it, Im hoping when she feels better she will transistion back to her regular diet easily. In the meantime... she just hoards anything chunky, so that's why the vet suggested teh babyfood. Even if I didn't add water to it, it owuld be impossible for her to hoard it. It doesn't have enough in it that a ferret needs,but it is putting some weight on her since it's one of the few thigns she will eat. I need to read the directions for the grinder - going to school full time, work full time, and coming home to Lulabelle is a nightmare. My boyfriend helps as best he can... but you know.... we've lived together for almost two years and he still doesn't know where anything is somehow I am permanently exhausted. I haven't had a break for a month now - I was sick for three weeks straight with the flu and bronchitis, and Lulabelle starting getting sick the third week, so now this is the fourth week... I'm just running on empty. Moving her to the bathroom has been a huge help though at least, so much easier to clean this way, way less laundry to keep up with. She poops on little paper towels and it makes it easy to see exactly what her potty trends are. I started her on the essiac tonight, so I'll update everyone on the progress tomorrow. She was playing in her paperbag again just a minute ago, rolling around with it... so I hope that's a good sign despite everything else.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 20, 2011 23:51:09 GMT -5
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 21, 2011 7:35:58 GMT -5
I have never used canned or moist EVO but I guess they would be good too. I don't know what it is but they seem to take to the hard kibble soup much faster. I guess it tastes better. Don't worry about moisture content if you use dry kibble because you would be adding water and making a soup. just keep offering her regular food too so she doesn't forget about it. Gary once told me that he used colloidal silver to shrink down enlarged ferret spleens.
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Post by xeopse on Mar 21, 2011 9:05:29 GMT -5
When I asked Gary what he recommended, he said to buy the colloidal silver from Silver Wings and ask for Liz, so I will do that since he gave me the phone number.
And yes, I can get just about anything here since I live by Boston, there is a little pet food store that has told me if they don't carry soemthing they can always order it for me. They are intrigued by raw feeding and have since started carrying whatever commercially prepared raw diets for dogs and cats. They do carry EVO products for cats and ferrets (I guess they developed a ferret formula too, although it 's essentially the same thing just different packaging) So I will call and see if they're open today and stop by on my lunch break.
I have dental work to be done this afternoon so I'll be out of comission for a couple hours after, then I have class until 10 PM. I'm not quite sure how I'm going to get everything done. I'm going to try and see Lulabelle on my lunch break too, even though it's on the other side of town.
She followed me out from the bathroom into the kitchen today, which is only a few feet but that's the farthest she's gotten since Tuesday. She has been attacking her paper bag, not like a normal ferret does but attacking it and chomping on it anyways. She rolls around inside and on top of it, and scoots around on it. I'm going to cut the handles off a plastic bag tonight and see if she likes that, those are normally her favorite. She is still a bit wobbly, but once she starts moving around she walks fine. Still very skinny though, she needs to put a lot more weight on. I'm going to see if she has any interest in cut up raw or groun up raw food, but I have that class until 10 so I won't be home until 10:30 tonight. I haven't slept much more than a couple hours a night for over a month now - I was sick with bronchitis for 3.5 weeks and now Lulabelle's been really sick for over a week now. I don't have enough hours in the day and today I start school full time, last week was spring break (so much for break, right?)
Also... I took the essiac tea last night and this morning, just because. Doesn't taste so great, huh?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 9:27:30 GMT -5
Keep your spirits up. Any time a fuzz is sick and school is in full swing it is tough. If she's been eating any raw, she might take the the commercial ground. Paulie is also a chunk hoarder and for whatever reason will not progress past the ground raw soupies. But, he is fat and happy on it. If she likes red meats, NVs bison is high in fat (even compared to any other formula) and might be a good boost.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 21, 2011 9:34:56 GMT -5
yeah silver wings is where i've gotten it from too. hope it works. i have to be honest, i THINK it may have SLIGHTLY decreased the size of a spleen in one of my ferrets that i used it on in the past, but the rest of them i didn't see that it worked. but other people have reported success with it.
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Post by xeopse on Mar 21, 2011 10:27:55 GMT -5
Oh Lulabelle is a seasoned raw eater, they all transistioned very well and only took about 2 months to get into the full swing of things. She eats just about a nything, but hte pr oblem is she is too weak to get very far with her usual regimen of rabbit, chicken, turkey, goat, pork, etc. so I would have to grind it myself so she doesn't hoard everything. I need to know she's eating right then and there because she needs to eat before I give her prednisolone. Buying the food makes my life a little easier since I don't have enough hours in the day to do all this PLUS go to work full time and school full time. Not to mention I have 4 other ferrets and a dog that I need to take care of too and other house duties. I wih there were 30 hours in a day, that would make my life significantly easier!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 11:13:23 GMT -5
I would find a place that carries Nature's Variety, Primal, or Bravo to make your life easier for now--if you want to keep her on raw. Again, Jennifer has a lot of her furbrats on commercial raw because of IBD as I recall, so she could also be a resource for soups/sick babies here on her return. All of those mixed with a little water make a great soup without chunks (I know because Paulie hoards them ALL and then eats them ... later ...). I could never get Paulie to try canned, so I could easily see that being an issue for you (and it is miserable to fight a ferret to get them to eat when you're already stressed). If I were still up in New England, I could offer better moral support (and possible a food run or two).
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