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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 13:42:15 GMT -5
...But isn't it? Lupron, melatonin, and deslorelin just mask the symptoms. I still plan on treating but I always thought it was like rubbing Rogain on your head when you have a brain tumor.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 13:54:44 GMT -5
The des. implant is believed to help slow tumor growth, so that definitely would not just be masking symptoms. From what I've heard, ferrets don't pass from adrenal disease, but rather complications associated with adrenal disease. I know this is a hard disease, but it can be managed and your baby can still live a good and happy life
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 14:00:55 GMT -5
I know... it's really shocking to me. Do you have a link to research on the deslorelin slowing tumor growth? I've seen you and Sherry say that but I keep seeing studies and posts otherwise. I'm still going to do it for her in the chance that it might.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 14:07:49 GMT -5
I attached an article about the implant, and I'm copy the part about adrenal growth. There was no significant growth or enlargement of adrenal gland size, suggesting that the direct or indirect effects of deslorelin acetate controls adrenal mass or adrenal growth as well as adrenal hormone activity. Deslorelin did not control adrenal growth in all ferrets, suggesting that the effect is lost after some time in some ferrets. Tumors that are initially hormone dependent can progress over time to a hormone-resistant state and may grow regardless of the removal of stimulatory hormones. In such instances, down regulation of GnRH receptors will not prevent further tumor growth. The effectiveness of deslorelin in ferrets with specific types of adrenal gland disease and its effect on tumor growth need to be further evaluated. Attachments:
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 20, 2011 14:28:11 GMT -5
sounds like adrenal disease. those are classic signs. is she stinkier than usual? producing more ear wax than normal? they don't always lose their hair. the first sign is almost always extreme itchiness, more stinky -they smell like an intact ferret (the adrenal smell as it is often referred to), more aggressive, excessive grooming. usually people don't notice until they start to see rat tail. but usually by then the disease has been present for a while already. i would start her with melatonin implant (one every 3 to 4 months-company that makes the melatonin implant is called melatek) + either monthly lupron shots OR deslorelin (if you can get it.) des and lupron do the same thing just the des lasts longer. not all adrenal tumors will respond the same to all medications. when you combine melatonin with either lupron or des, you get better results.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 20, 2011 15:49:34 GMT -5
You know something? Even if all it did were to mask the symptoms, and make her feel better, it's still worth it. But, both des and lupron both inhibit the release of the hormones that have triggered the adrenal in the first place, which is how they work. Sinnead's excessive grooming, mounting behaviour, and fur loss were all reversed for a long time. After 2 years, she did need a melatonin implant to help control them again, as the lupron was no longer as effective- but now IT'S working for her. All behaviours are back to pre-adrenal. The only "cure" is surgery, and the odds of it coming back again within a couple months are definitely too high for my liking, the odds of it recurring within a year are about 80% according to my vet. So- even with surgery to "cure" it, she'd still need either lupron or des anyway.
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Post by Heather on Mar 21, 2011 0:23:04 GMT -5
I have to admit that my vet has had poor results with surgery too. I will admit that this may entirely be predominantly up to the skill of the surgeon and the frequency that they perform this surgery but I still don't like the risks for the results (risk of the surgery vs the end result, the returning of the adrenal within a very short period of time) ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2011 14:53:23 GMT -5
Thanksso much for the PDF, its alot of info, working through bits at a time. It gives me a little hope. As I said I will still do it regardless of it being a cure.
As for surgery, I saw a vet in Houston who had done a large number of surgeries for insulinoma. He said he used to always recommend it first, but after having so many come back with more tumors a short period later, and having some come up missed because they are the size of a pinprick, he felt that it was unnecessary hardship on the ferret. I don't remember if he recommended deslorelin or not but it was just two years ago. Wish I still lived there, he was such a good Dr.
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Post by Heather on Mar 21, 2011 15:43:13 GMT -5
Insulinoma or adrenal?? Big difference. Even the powers that be do not advice surgery for insulinoma any more (can't get all the lessions, too easy to miss). Insulinoma is so hard on a ferret that surgery just puts one more stress on their bodies. ciao
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 21, 2011 16:34:33 GMT -5
please don't bother with a surgery to remove insulinoma tumors. often they are so tiny and scattered throughout that the vet cannot possibly get all of them. you will be putting her through a needless surgery. alot of older ferrets do not have the stamina to even recover from an adrenal surgery. it is a very rough surgery. and, as others have said, those tumors usually just grow right back because the vet doesn't (and usually can't) get all of the diseased tissue. one of my ferrets was on melatonin alone for several years and he regrew all of his hair, all of the symptoms were relieved. when that alone stopped working, we added the lupron, and then des was substituted for lupron. but we always gave melatonin.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 5:04:27 GMT -5
Sorry I was talking about adrenal surgery The vet I'm seeing now says we can't give the melatonin if a ferret is also insulinomic, so that rules it out for my other ferret. Not sure about Mimosa, need to get her tested. She's been on Marshall's so long I wouldn't be surprised. She's not showing signs of it, but neither did Mabel.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 22, 2011 7:08:35 GMT -5
I have given MANY melatonin implants to insulinomic ferrets. It will not aggravate the insulinoma. Don't worry about that.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 22, 2011 7:20:17 GMT -5
Oh and about the adrenal surgery, the thing is, why bother? the tumors will usually grow back. So why put them through that ordeal of surgery? Especially if they are old. I know you are very attached to your fuzzy and you want to cure her. I have been there myself many times. We all have. Sometimes all we can do is treat the symptoms and get more time with them. There really is no magic cure for adrenal or insulinoma. I go more than 3 extra years out of my adrenal ferret with melatonin, lupron and des. I recently posted a pic of him here (under "our famous ferret post) when we took that pic of him that was published in the magazine, he had been adrenal for over a year. The year before, his tail was bald. In that pic he was on melatonin alone. Look at how thick and shiny his tail was. So, with these medications you can give her a good quality of life and mask the horrible symptoms that comes with adrenal disease.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 22, 2011 12:58:17 GMT -5
I've heard that about insulinomic ferrets before, but nothing is proven in any way. Many ferrets with insulinoma have been successfully treated with melatonin, lupin, or des.
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Post by Heather on Mar 22, 2011 13:38:40 GMT -5
Adrenal is diffinitely not a death sentence especially for the older fuzz. In the young ones it seems to be more aggressive. In the older fuzzes it seems to be part of life. Pooka who was my oldest adrenal fuzz just passed away this past weekend at the age of about 10 yrs. She's had adrenal for almost 3 yrs. Ten is a good age for a ferret. Did the adrenal kill her....I don't think so. The problem with adrenal is the diseases that are spawned from it. Pooka had ulcers, they were just getting harder and harder to deal with and she wasn't responding to treatment any more. I used melatonin for a 18 months before she stopped responding to the melatonin and we moved up to the lupron. She did well on it for a few months and we moved to the des implant. Honestly, I don't think she responded well to the des. She did pass away with a gorgeous full fur coat though. Rather ironic really.....she was the only fuzz that I had that went totally naked (except for her tail and her lion mane). ciao
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