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Post by kpaz on Jan 26, 2012 18:02:01 GMT -5
I think I'll wait until the weekend before changing too much, just so I have an idea of what's going on with Goomba. The cubes are puree thickness, so that will be convenient. Goomba has been doing better, today he hasn't looked sick at all. He eats the exact same soup Ellie and Pippin eat, ( that is just the soup without added dry kibble to it), but he only drinks it through the syringe. The minute I offer him the bowl he starts wretching and gagging. I think it's just the smell. He'll drink some from a spoon but again, if there's enough for him to smell it he won't touch it. I woke up at 7 and he was eating, he drank a lot of soup, and right before I left for school I went to feed him and he was drinking on his own. I'm only putting about 10-15 pieces of kibble in the soup now, just enough to mask the smell of the chicken. I think Ellie is drinking it too fast, almost every morning she kind of spits up after she's had her fill and has run around for a bit. Then, while it's hanging like a big thick drool from her mouth she licks it back up. It's pretty disgusting ;D
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Post by kpaz on Jan 26, 2012 18:32:50 GMT -5
I just fed him again and he was unstable on his feet. It's like instead of stepping out of my lap he springs out of it, then looks very clumsy trying to regain his balance. Is yawning part of lethargy? He keeps giving little yaws, then kind of just lays down and sleeps wherever he is, which is unlike him
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Post by kpaz on Jan 26, 2012 23:05:29 GMT -5
They wouldn't stop moving but here is what they look like as of now. Pippin Ellie Goomba Fed Goomba again, but he's so shaky. His legs cramp and stick straight out, they look like Pippin's legs when I first adopted him. When Goomba tries to stand (he's always been the best) now his whole bottom half shakes violently and he can't stay up for more than a fraction of a second. He wandered around downstairs for a while and has been more active today, but his legs just aren't working right.
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Post by katt on Jan 27, 2012 1:19:41 GMT -5
Overall they don't look bad. Can you find the pictures that you originally posted from before starting though? They seem to have disappeared from our thread... I know Ellie is a girl and is naturally going to be smaller, but I'd like to see her gain a little weight, so I'm glad she is eating so well. They look like they might be in their seasonal shed. That would certainly explain the hair in Goomba's poop. Do they seem to be blowing their coats to you? I only say this because Ellie and Pippin seem to have longer hair along their backs, and shorter hair along their sides. That's the pattern Koda shed in this year. lol Goomba seems to have a longer patch right on top of his back-hump in the second picture. hehe It might just be the pictures too. That is really good that Goomba is eating the soup. Unfortunately smell has a LOT to do with imprinting on foods. Ferrets and cats tend to impring on their foods once they reach a certain age, and after that switching diets (even to a new kibble) can be a royal PITA. Most of that is smell-related. lol Keep syringe feeding Goomba and slowly decrease the number of kibble pieces in the soup. If he's eating the raw soup and just needs the kibble to be present to mask the smell but isn't really eating the kibble, that is GREAT progress for him. Now just work on slowly removing the kibble pieces one by one until he gets used to the smell. Silly thing! Keep posting me on how they are doing this weekend and we'll see what the vet says. As for Goomba, I'm really thinking it is NOT insulinoma. It's still possible of course but I doubt that's the issue. IF it were, I would think that we'd have seen a few things by now... The biggest one is that feeding him should have stopped or at the very least, lessened the attacks. Also, feeding him more frequently, every few hours etc should have helped to decrease and possibly even eliminte the attacks. It sounds like he is eating better, which is good, but his legs would only be shaky and tremoring like that when his BG was low, not all the time and especially not after he eats. Then you consider blockage. A blockge could most definitely cause lethargy. And a severe blockage could potentially press on the nerves in the pelvis leading to the legs, causing nerve pain or numbness. But he is now eating and pooping just fine... To me it honestly sounds more like some sort of neurological issue. I'd say possible nerve damage, but I'm not sure if that would cause lethargy. Though I suppose any type of pain/discomfort can cause lethargy so it might. Neurological issues might explain the trembling, cramping, loss of balance, and lethargy. I'm no vet though, just speculating. I certainly don't want to get you stressed out any more than you need to be. I have a feeling the vet may want to consider an X-Ray (probably a barium X-Ray). This could look for skeletal damage, tumors, blockage, etc. It wouldn't hurt to bring in a fresh fecal sample with you as well, then if the vet thinks it may be something intestinal they can run a fecal test to check for possible infection or parasites. Beyond that, I'm really not sure. I really hope it is something simple and easily treated! Maybe just a little case of the flu making him feel a little weak and shaky? Or an ear infection affecting his balance? My fingers are crossed! You take him in tomorrow morning, or Sat?
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Post by katt on Jan 27, 2012 20:10:02 GMT -5
Any updates? I'm still stuck at work but I wanted to check in a d see how they were doing.
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Post by kpaz on Jan 27, 2012 20:12:56 GMT -5
He isn't nearly as bad as he was the first two days after noticing the tremor, and his legs weren't trembling last night after feeding, just stiff still. Hopefully it will get sorted out tomorrow, my appt is first thing in the morning. This morning I fed soup and they all drank it, Goomba doesn't eat the kibble, he just drinks the soup, usually. Pippin and Ellie will bob for the kibble, but they drink soup first. Daniel fed them while I was at school; he said they all ate and was playing with no foot tremor, so that's good. I'm about to switch the food out again and hand feed Goomba. Hopefully my vet knows what she's talking about. I've never had any problems with them except for when Pippin broke his foot. Here are the original pictures: Pippin: Ellie: Goomba: As for their coats, its hard to tell. It's very possible that they are losing their winter coats, but their winter coats have been pretty ugly this year. We have had an extremely mild winter with many days getting into the high 70s to low 80s F and we've only had two nights that it got down below freezing. Looking at the pictures, they do look like they're in between.
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Post by kpaz on Jan 27, 2012 21:06:37 GMT -5
Should I bag the stool sample tonight or is that too long for it to sit?
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Post by katt on Jan 27, 2012 23:11:47 GMT -5
Stool samples should preferably be no more than 6-8 hours old BUT if you can't get one that fresh, you can double bag it in the fridge and it will be good for up to a day. In general though, the fresher the better. <- That's the standard answer we give at the clinic I work at. Oh and it can't be frozen. ;D Up here that's a real problem. haha Can't test for parasites if they're all frozen (dead). Anyways, get one tonight and double bag it in the fridge immediately and t should be fine for the morning. Then if you can get a fresh one in the am, use that instead. Try tk make sure t is for sure Goomba's though. As for feeding, they are all ready to move on to the next step. So we can start moving them along after this weekend. It sounds like they are all eating well which is great. As a heads up (though you probably already know this) a lot of vets are pretty strongy against raw. Just be prepared for that. That's what happens when purina funds their nutrition classes and offers a monetary incentive to vets for selling kibble. So a just in case FYI the end goal of the diet switch is to have a balance of: about 10-15% edible raw bone, 10% organ (at least half liver and half other organs like kidney, brain, spleen, reproductive organs, etc), and the remaining 75-80% muscle meat, including hearts (prob about 5-10% total die tof heart for taurine) and gizzards (great for teeth cleaning). There will be an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of 3 protein sources (ie pork, beef, and chicken) with as much variety as can be found (the more the better). If the vet is concerned the diet is curretly unbalanced I just want to make sure you know where it's going balance-wise. Just be prepared. Some vets are great, others are vhemently against raw. All of the vets in my clinic were against raw until they met my boys and now many of them are beginning to accept the idea of raw being the best route - "for ferrets only." (Even though cat's dietary needs are nearly identical ). Haha Let me know how it goes! And those pics you Just posted are the original pre-switch pictures correct?
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Post by kpaz on Jan 27, 2012 23:40:25 GMT -5
Yes those are the pre switch pictures. Their coats look a little like h*ll now in comparison, but they are all MUCH softer. I don't know if the diet will change it that quickly, but Goomba's fur especially used to be brittle and now he feels soft and silky. Thanks for the tip, I think I did ask about raw the very first time I went to the vet and they told me it was unsafe. If it is insulinoma for Goomba, do you think it showed up because there wasn't that constant access to kibble? I saw his leg twitching for the first time literally the first day of the switch, when I took them outside to play and they hadn't eaten in 2-3 hours. If it is insulinoma, if they were still on kibble would it be making him worse, but just masking the symptoms because of the constant access?
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Post by katt on Jan 28, 2012 0:33:33 GMT -5
If it is insulinoma, if they were still on kibble would it be making him worse, but just masking the symptoms because of the constant access? YES. Absolutely. They can have constant access with the raw too particularly now that they are eating it consistently. From here on out, they are eating raw and it just gets easier. There are still major barriers but you've passed the hardest step. The next hard step is getting them used to the texture, and then to bone. Then adding in more proteins, organs, etc. But the first step is often the most challenging.
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Post by kpaz on Jan 28, 2012 0:52:06 GMT -5
Should I feed him 2 hours before the BG to make sure he has something in his stomach? How do you recommend I handle the feeding before his bG test?
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Post by katt on Jan 28, 2012 1:26:15 GMT -5
That I am not sure of, I'm sorry. I'd make a public post. Or better yet, call the vet if they are still open.
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Post by kpaz on Jan 28, 2012 1:32:15 GMT -5
Someone said that if I feed him 2 hours before to just keep in mind that his BG will probably read as borderline and not low if he has insulinoma, so I think I will wake up at 5 just to make sure he's at least eaten a little, that way by 8 he shouldn't be too bad off but I can get a more accurate reading. I'm going to make some fresh soup and call it a night, it's already past midnight and the day is going to start pretty early. I wrote down all the symptoms/diet/questions for the vet tomorrow, and I'll let you know how it goes
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Post by katt on Jan 28, 2012 1:40:44 GMT -5
I look forward to the update! It is good that your wrote everything down, that will really help. Feel free to text me any time. I'll probably be at work but I'll reply if I can.
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Post by kpaz on Jan 28, 2012 11:09:00 GMT -5
So...that was rather inconclusive. Pippin's spleen is enlarged a little, but other than that he is healthy so I'll just keep on eye on him. She said she thinks we should do the panel before getting lupron (if it comes to that) so I still need to do some convincing. As for Goomba...his BG was 122. She said his vitals are really healthy and that maybe it's just his BG fluctuating from the change in diet, but not necessarily insulinoma. So she told me to continue the frequent feeding, and if he doesn't stablalize, to bring him back. Then she's going to keep him for a day and do multiple BG tests throughout the day for a better idea, and if it's still normal, we're going to do an x-ray. SHe said she was going to do research; I think I was more informed than she was on a lot of things, and she wanted to check on what I was suggesting before moving forward. So I guess I will just see if he improves this week and if not I will make another appointment. I'm absolutely exhausted and I'm going to feed them some soup and take a nap. The only poop Goomba made this morning was itty bitty (basically a dot) since he hadn't eaten, and all the other stuff was old, so I didn't get a good sample to bring in.
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