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Post by Sherry on Sept 2, 2012 20:31:28 GMT -5
I really think Joan has something with the genetics factor. We are so accustomed to equating spay,neuter with adrenal that it becomes an automatic assumption(of which I am guilty as well). What we forget is that in the UK and in Australia they very seldom see a case of adrenal, even with neutering.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 20:33:05 GMT -5
That is very true. I do understand that there is likely some genetic component to the disease, and that even our best efforts might not be enough.
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Post by lorelei0922 on Sept 2, 2012 21:39:46 GMT -5
my personal choice for MY ferrets ... if they are not joining my breeding program is late alter... ie let them come into season... Jab .. some phantom.. some dont.. (only had 1 out of 15 phantom) then spay either once they come out of season or before the next season comes along ( yes they can still phantom if they are spayed after the jab takes them out of season)
I'm on the fence about des .. for two reasons.. i dont believe there is enough long term info understood about its use for purely keeping them out of season... and two.. i worry about multiple sexed groups implants running out and producing MORE unwanted kits by very inexperienced and inappropriate ferret owners or owners "not being able to afford" a new implant every year or so... where as a spay is done and taken care of !!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2012 23:52:52 GMT -5
Just jumping into the conversation. I have a whole jill, she is 3 this year. Jill jabs are cheap (under $5 a jab) and while jabs do have some negative consequences (many believe they lose effect if repeatedly used?), I've kept her whole this long in order to curb adrenal. I've had good luck with the jabs thus far, and though she came in three times last ear, she only came in twice this year. If using jabs, I suggest doing one jab about a week or so after to her fully coming into season, and then another a week after that to fully bring her out. Even if she appears to come out with the first jab, do the second anyway. I think this winter I will spay her, though I have been toying with the idea of Des. I am still undecided and skeptical, though. Dr Wagner has said in his adrenal studies that a good estimate is 3-4 years post-altering, they will begin to develop adrenal, so by waiting until Banshee is 3.5-4 years old, I'm hoping to push that date back further. Dr. Wagner has also suggested Lupron boosts each spring for spayed and neutered animals to combat spring hormone rushes - so that is something to consider also. In any case, keeping her whole until she finishes growing up/going through her first estrus will definitely give her a great start, even if the various options are still confusing and up in the air.
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Post by shiftyferret on Sept 3, 2012 14:17:47 GMT -5
Thanks guys, this is a lot to consider and your opinions/insights are very helpful.
She will DEFINITELY go through to her first season at least. I want her fully grown and all her squishy parts completely developed before I make any changes to them! I'm well aware that reproductive organs/glands control growth and development until they're ready to become reproductive organs.
I will talk to Ann shortly. I know she's just lost a couple of her ferrets and now may be an upsetting time.
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Post by crazylady on Sept 3, 2012 14:51:32 GMT -5
Hi I have used both jill jabs and vas hobs for many many years ( I too am on the fence over des ) I mainly use the vas hobs I own but for my older girls I use the jill jab ( they don't need frisky young hobs messing them around lol ) I have never had any problems with the jill jab even using it repeatedly but I would not use it on any jill I considered breeding from as it does reduce fertility and in some older jills ( around the age of 7/8 ) after a couple years of use they simply come into season and go out again themselves ! along with the full phantom mode lol If I am using a jill jab I normally give it between day 12 /14 of the season when the jill is most receptive as I have said I cannot comment on the des implant as I have never used it and I don't suppose I ever will hope this helps take care bye for now Bev
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Post by shiftyferret on Sept 3, 2012 15:10:16 GMT -5
((And Sherry, thank you very much for the suggestion for the Wysong (ferret) Epigen 90. I started waaaay back on Totally when it was a better choice then the 8-in-1, Marshalls, and Kaytee foods available. After I get Shen's up coming vet bill paid, I'll be ordering the Wysong and probably donating what's left of the Totally.))
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 15:15:33 GMT -5
In the Netherlands we give the implant to a lot off ferrets. But I pursenely feel that light conditions play a much bigger role in developing adrenal together whit genetics. kaia was spayd when she was 4 and she got a des when she was 6 for adrenal.
By carfull you give the jill the implant before going in heet, for the risk of fantom pragnancy.
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Post by shiftyferret on Sept 3, 2012 15:23:21 GMT -5
I fully intend to combat the lighting issue, I do believe that plays a big role in adrenal issues. I do think it's better for ferrets to be kept outside, or at least spend a lot of time outdoors... BUT not many of us in the states can afford to do so. It's too risky with out temperatures.
I have plans to rig a black out curtain cover for the FN cage, this should help. And yes, once it's done I will post lots of pictures! It may not be a perfect solution... but it should help.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 14:53:58 GMT -5
I think it the artificial lighting in the house that's bad, so keep them in a room whit no lighting.
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Post by shiftyferret on Sept 4, 2012 16:01:14 GMT -5
Sadly, I live in a small apartment. So we cannot devote a room just to the ferrets... otherwise I would!
However I will regulate the light they get. The cage will be fully covered during the evening/night.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2012 16:06:57 GMT -5
I think artificial lighting during the night time/ after sundown is the most harmful. Just make sure you provide completely dark places in the cage they can go into.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 4:45:46 GMT -5
I'm yet to get my baby girl and I'm a little confused about when to spay, how old should she be? I've been reading so many conflicting things.
I live in Australia, and all I know is A: a female ferret must be brought out of heat or she will die of 'something' anemia. B: I will not be breeding EVER. C: I want to do the best by my baby.
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Post by shiftyferret on Sept 5, 2012 8:52:08 GMT -5
At least let her go through one heat, have her brought out of it... and then if you're inclined to spay.. do so.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 5, 2012 9:20:03 GMT -5
That would be the best if you are spaying. Allow her heat to start, bring her out with a jab on, I believe, day 12-14, let her phantom if she's going to and at the end of that have the spay done.
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