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Post by maddy on Mar 14, 2011 12:19:04 GMT -5
Ok, sooo I talked to my cousin ab adrenal prevention methods and she hasn't heard personally much about it, but said she would ask some of the vets she works with. Then I decided to email Bells Ferry Animal Clinic bc they have some really ferret knowledgeable vets on staff. I would go to them but they are really expensive! Anyway I emailed and asked they're opinion on adrenal prevention and they said they recommend seasonal lupron shots given usually between Jan and March to help prevent adrenal disease. They said the deslorin implant looks promising, but is not available to US practitioners. What do yall think about this? I appreciate anyone's two cents.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2011 12:50:40 GMT -5
The Deslorelin implant is certainly available to amarican vets. My (very american) vet has been using it for 2 years. She and I had planned on implanting Brady with the Des (he'll be a year in August) as a preventative measure, but I think I've decided to hold off because the Des seems to be so valuable when they actually DO get adrenal. This opinion will probably change, but right now I'm enjoying my boys healthy and I'll deal with adrenal when the time comes. Until there is more data about the Des implant, I'm saving it for the later years.
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Post by Heather on Mar 14, 2011 13:59:11 GMT -5
That has always been my concern with the so-called preventative protocols, they are also a treatment for the 'di"sease. I discussed it with my vet and she is presently siding with the "do what you can to prevent it and deal with it when it happens". It does appear that if you use a certain protocol as a preventative it is not as effective treating the disease when it occurs. According to most its not a matter of if your ferret gets adrenal its when .
Adrenal is a mixture (the assumption, they don't really know) early spay/neuter, genetics, diet and lighting. Most people have a certain amount of control over the diet and lighting, so then you have to look at where you get your fuzz from. There was, years ago, a vet who, in one of his seminars, openly mentioned that you had a 60% chance of getting an adrenal ferret if you had a female marshals. Those are really high odds. At that time, I didn't have any marshals ferrets. Since reading that article (and sorry I never thought I would need to keep it) I've had 6 marshals females. Out of those 6, four have been diagnosed with adrenal....I presently have 2 living, one being treated for adrenal and one not adrenal (yes that means that one of the girls didn't have adrenal, she died of a brain tumour, she was 9 yrs old). I never really thought about it until I started writing this, but...that's awfully close to the horrible 60%
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2011 15:34:10 GMT -5
I think I'll wait on the Des. Until I start seeing symptoms. If anything, I might think about a preventative lupron shot in the beginning of the year for those ferrets that have hit puberty.
Heather, those odds are terrible. I have 3 Marshall girls.
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Post by Heather on Mar 14, 2011 16:52:19 GMT -5
They are lousy odds. I never really thought much about it, other than at the time, thinking that I really didn't want to get too many marshals. The vet got slammed and was told that his population size was too small to make that type of assumption, his theory was thrown out. One of the considerations that should be noted too (especially if you're into conspiracy theories  ), is marshals supplies the lab animals for many of the universities and vet colleges for their exotic studies. Marshals, like the kibble industry (hills in particular) get really annoyed and start making noise about removing funding or support whenever their toes get stepped on. Just something to think about too ;D ciao |
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 14, 2011 17:05:28 GMT -5
My American vet already implanted our male marshalls ferret with deslorelin. I went through h*ll with the last adrenal ferret I had. If i can do something to prevent it then I will certainly try. I asked Dr jerry Murray about implanting early to prevent adrenal. He said absolutely and if done before the first hormonal spike it should be 99.9 % effective in preventing adrenal tumors. It is when there are tumors already there that the meds like melatonin, lupron, and des eventually stop working- these medications do not cure adrenal but they only mask the symptoms. In the meantime, the tumors which were present before you began the des are growing resistant to the meds. at that point when none of the meds work any longer, the tumors are usually malignant. My vet also researched this and he agreed that it should prevent the tumors. So Sonny has a des implant. We'll see what happens!
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 14, 2011 17:16:08 GMT -5
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Post by Heather on Mar 14, 2011 17:20:54 GMT -5
I do hope beyond anything that this could indeed be the solution. What you state makes sense. I'm watching this whole des thing with great interest. My only problem is, I've seen the so called preventative theory offered again and again. I really hope they do find the solution. Adrenal is as you say a horrible disease. My little Pooka is a testiment to that  I know that she's not got long. I see no improvement (other than a gorgeous coat, which means absolutely nothing if the ferret is dying on the inside) and she now is being force fed by syringe. She is now reaching the point where her tummy is even rejecting the pure baby food. I'm probably going to take her in for assessment sometime this week  ciao |
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Post by miamiferret2 on Mar 14, 2011 17:25:36 GMT -5
yes heather. it is awful. my ferret had hair but the disease was wreaking havoc inside of him. he had stomach ulcers from the stress, helicobacter flare ups, alot of gastrointestinal issues and so many problems urinating. i guess i am traumatized becuase i had to put him down in september. he was with me for 8 years and i just want to see if i can avoid this.  |
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Post by joclyn on Mar 14, 2011 19:04:47 GMT -5
any time a ferret is neutered he will develop adrenal disease...it just happens at a much younger age (3-4) with the pet store kids because they are fixed so, so, so young! the breeders that i know also deal with adrenal disease in their ferrets - just happens at a later age (5-6-7) and that would be due to the fact that they usually allow the ferrets to have at least one cycle of being in season before they are fixed. and they'll have more seasons if they are active in the breeding programs (females are usually fixed around age 3 and males at 4-5-6 depending)
so, messing with the body, in any way & regardless at what age it's done, is what seems to be a main cause in the development of adrenal disease.
it's also been said that light exposure is also a factor...not so sure about that because i know quite a few people that keep their ferrets in virtually constant darkness and they still have developed adrenal disease - and within the same timeframe as others of the same age & from the same mass-breeder.
there may also be a genetic component to it although, the fact that some 'don't ever develop' it may be just a case of no outward symptoms are evident and they do have it...
more formal studies definitely need to be done, that's for sure!
initially, i did lupron and a couple also needed melatonin and, when the vet finally agreed to get the deslorelin, they were moved to that. the latest to be diagnosed went straight on deslorelin.
with the 4 i saw noticable improvements within 2 weeks and that continued for another 4 weeks or so and then seemed to level off. after another 4-6 i was seeing some behaviours return. and finola had never gotten her fur back - even with doing another melatonin implant. hardly any winter weight was gained and it was more noticable that it wasn't there because they'd actually lost the weight they'd regained initially when the implants were put in...although, the other 5 (who are not adrenal) also did not gain winter weight - so, it could have been the funky weather that was the issue since, in january, they (all of them) did finally start to add some weight on; just not as much as is usual. and duncan never did put any on - worrysome since he usually gets downright obese in the winter! weird thing with finola - within this past month, she's regained ALL her fur!!! she looks fah-bu-lous!! taco, he's losing out on that front - had barely started to get the lost fur back and now shed is starting early for him and he looks about like he did when he got the implant at the beginning of january. he has had an increase in activity and i put the weight loss off to that initially (since he'd been pretty inactive for a while and then had such a spurt of energy that he didn't stop moving for hours)...he has ibd, though, too, and had a flare-up of that and that's also part of his weight loss since the year started. to date, he's only regained about 5 ounces of the lost weight - he needs a lot more than that to be back within normal range!
so, i am not sure what to think about this medication. with the fluctuations of symptoms i'm seeing, it doesn't seem to be working quite as it should (aka steady release of the med over time) or maybe it's just the normal weather/season cycles that i'm seeing and it just seems more pronounced since i'm being extra observant? or maybe what i'm seeing IS what is supposed to happen??
not sure.
feel bad for grizel since chauncey is attacking her ears almost constantly again...don't feel bad that boo is back to wanting to give his mommy kisses, tho, cuz mommy LUVS boo's kisses ;D
really wish i'd heard about the study a little earlier than i did - i'd have loved to have gotten the 4 into that!
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Post by maddy on Mar 15, 2011 12:04:47 GMT -5
So, what sounds better? The deslorelin implant or lupron shot annually as a preventative? Do you think there is harm in either?
About light, I do have a blackout cover for my cage, but I seem to rem reading somewhere in a study that ferrets that received NO light still got adrenal, they just didn't show symptoms.... maybe I'm wrong but that's what I think I remember.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2011 12:57:19 GMT -5
Do I understand this correctly, that you're talking about adrenal prevention in surgically castrated ferrets? Over here in Europe the latest fad is to avoid surgical castration (at least for the first 2-4 years which usually equates 2 implants during that time) and instead do a chemical castration with the deslorelin. They use it on both jills and hobs (have never used it myself).
Like I mentioned in the other thread, I'm convinced there's major genetic factor to this disease. Considering my situation and all the kits that I've sold... I can't believe that would all be luck (that they don't get adrenal).
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Post by maddy on Mar 15, 2011 15:45:49 GMT -5
Yes, Marie, he has been neutered, but not by my choice. He is a mill baby, so that I had no control over. There aren't a lot of breeders at all around me. I totally agree w you ab the early neutering too. I'd kill to have one of your BEAUTIFUL babies bc I know they'd be healthy.
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Post by joan on Mar 16, 2011 13:16:40 GMT -5
Like I mentioned in the other thread, I'm convinced there's major genetic factor to this disease. Considering my situation and all the kits that I've sold... I can't believe that would all be luck (that they don't get adrenal). I totally agree with Marie ra a major genetic factor to adrenal. I've always thought that, which is why I've never owned or bred anything other than medium to dark sables. Current research indicates that adrenal disease in ferrets is associated with the MEN gene which is autosomal dominant. Like Marie, so far none of the ones I've owned or sold have ever developed adrenal disease. More than half of them (7-8 year old at the time of death) were necropsied, and their adrenal glands (as well as their pancreas) were completely normal. My own theory is that the gene(s) responsible are close (on the DNA strand) to the genes which mutated to result in the fancy colors. The resultant breedings of the fancy colors to one another over many generations have resulted in the vast majority of ferrets, both commercially and privately bred, becoming pure dominant for the genetic factor(s) which will cause adrenal to develop eventually, regardless of the conditions under which the ferrets are kept. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2011 13:22:46 GMT -5
I think there is no denying a genetic factor in adrenal disease. With everything that could cause adrenal, it's hard to pinpoint exactly one cause. Adrenal could be triggered by environmental factors, epigenetic factors, etc. Luckily, more genetic research is being done to try to find a gene(s) responsible for adrenal disease, because it also holds a lot of value for human medicine. Unfortunately, ferrets are a good model for a wide range of human disease/viruses, making them popular in the lab. |
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