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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 1:49:43 GMT -5
So, being that Pogo and Mischief are both a little over 2lbs each, would 3-4oz of soup each a day be enough for them to be healthy? If so, then I'll just start holding the kibble. I just worry that they'll get sick from hunger while we are at work for so long if they won't eat enough during the day. And even though they are all doing good about eating from the bowl, they still take a little coaxing to actually do so.
As for Mischief, he is acting strange today. A couple of times, after eating (or instead of eating) he would try to knock over his soupie bowl and then run off and throw a tantrum. He did this tonight on their last feeding. He licked my finger readily enough, but when I put the bowl in front of him he knocked it over, threw a tantrum in his box, then proceeded to go into his cage and throw another tantrum on his hammy. Now he is asleep. Just...weird...
As for another protein - I have many options. As for cost effeciency I'll have to visit the meat market and do some math. I've though goat meat maybe, but I don't know if that will be any cheaper than the rabbit (though less prep time). Also, beef might work, but honestly I'd be willing to try turkey just as quickly as beef. Of course I still have pork, then other smaller animals as well, though these will be just as pricey as the rabbit. Lets say we do either beef, turkey, or pork - what parts of these meats should I buy? My meat market is very well stocked so I've got lots of options. Just don't know what would sit better with them right now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 9:24:07 GMT -5
I'd say 3 oz is enough to take away the kibble. You can also try leaving some small slivers of meat in the cage in case they get hungry and are adventurous ;D
As for Mischief, sounds like he is just throwing a tantrum because he wants kibble instead of raw.
For cuts of meats, go with whatever is cheapest. I find that my kids enjoy fattier cuts more than lean meat. Chicken thigh over breast, stewing beef over steak, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 23:09:15 GMT -5
OK, so Bandit ate his usual 6oz today. Pogo ate a whopping 4oz, and even stole his last ounce from Mischief's bowl BUT, Mischief only ate about 3oz today and even though he did eat about an hour ago he only ate .5oz. And unfortunately, he is being rather stubborn and won't eat anymore tonight. I REALLY want to leave the kibble out of the cage for the night to see how things go, but I worry that he'll be starving by morning (which means he will have to go about 14hrs with only .5oz of food). I'm going to stay up another hour or so and see if I can get him to eat a little more. If not, I'm unsure as of what to do (to clue ya in - he ate 1.5oz at 8:30am, he ate another 1oz at 5pm, and his last .5oz at 11pm). I don't know, I might be stressin over nothing considering he never really ate much kibble in any given day. However, IMO he is a little underweight. It's wierd, after he came home he switched himself off the crap food his previous owner had him on to our food (which even though it SUX is nutritionally more balanced) and in doing so gained a decent amount of weight. Since then (a little under a month) he has lost all the extra weight for some unknown reason. I have noticed here recently that he really doesn't eat much at all and he is more of an 'air eater' as Heather puts it. He has also been breathing wierd since he came home, almost like Bandit and Emmett, so I'm concerned about him. I don't know if maybe he is sick, if something is simply wrong with this house, or if maybe he has a mouth or stomach issue as I've noticed that he really doesn't like to crunch the kibble and seems to have a hard time doing so. But other than some nasty tartar on one side I haven't noticed any problems in his mouth. Anywho, sorry about the rant. All-in-all, things are going well and over the next 2 days while my BF and I are off we hope to get them fully switched over. THEN, we'll have to figure out what to do about the new meat
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 23:52:40 GMT -5
Update - Mischief ate a bit more today (4oz), but he ate almost all of it in the morning and afternoon hours again. Pogo ate about 3oz. They both took to the raw easily enough. Occasionally they require my finger to lick from, but they'll go the the bowl fairly quick after. Bandit ate about 5oz today. I suppose he is starting to level out?!?! He has been fully raw soupie for 3 weeks now. Is this the 'level out' time frame or is it maybe that he hasn't been feeling well the past couple of days?
Comments - Pogo is finally accepting the raw and I think he will be fine without the kibble (though a bit hungry overnight as he typically eats a fair amount of kibble while in the cage). Mischief is still 'air eating', but he is also accepting the raw well. As for these two, I've decided to leave the kibble out of the cage tonight. They've all eaten at least 3oz today so I'm OK with ending the kibble. I'll celebrate, however, after a week without the kibble and no bad incidences! As for Bandit, he has NOT been feeling well these past few days. The gastroenteritis is probably not helping his situation, but I think he is feeling bad from whatever it is that is wrong with him. And now he of course has me worrying about the raw - he has packed on SO MUCH weight that his breathing problems have gotten worse. He has been gagging and wheezing and coughing a lot more the past few days. Also, he is having a hard time holding himself up while pottying on the wood floor. He is fine on carpet (which is of course were he IS NOT SUPPOSE to go potty), but he just can't keep his back feet under him on the wood. I think he's gained almost all fat and has yet to develop the muscle needed to haul around his bulk. I worry that all the extra weight is affecting his diagnosed problem (arrythmia) and worsening the heart problem I believe he has (cardio maybe). I've always liked the chunky monkeys, but in Bandit's case I would just rather he be lean. Dunno how we would accomplish this though as we are soon going to attempt feeding him fattier proteins like beef and turkey.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 14:20:21 GMT -5
Update - Mischief ate a bit more today (4oz), but he ate almost all of it in the morning and afternoon hours again. Pogo ate about 3oz. They both took to the raw easily enough. Occasionally they require my finger to lick from, but they'll go the the bowl fairly quick after. Bandit ate about 5oz today. I suppose he is starting to level out?!?! He has been fully raw soupie for 3 weeks now. Is this the 'level out' time frame or is it maybe that he hasn't been feeling well the past couple of days? Woo that is great news! Bandit could be leveling out, its hard to tell with winter approaching soon. Comments - Pogo is finally accepting the raw and I think he will be fine without the kibble (though a bit hungry overnight as he typically eats a fair amount of kibble while in the cage). Yayyyy! That is wonderful Hopefully that hunger helps encourage him to eat more raw Mischief is still 'air eating', but he is also accepting the raw well. As for these two, I've decided to leave the kibble out of the cage tonight. They've all eaten at least 3oz today so I'm OK with ending the kibble. Sounds like my Pixie. She is a notorious air eater. But 3 oz is a good amount so I wouldn't be too concerned. As for Bandit, he has NOT been feeling well these past few days. The gastroenteritis is probably not helping his situation, but I think he is feeling bad from whatever it is that is wrong with him. And now he of course has me worrying about the raw - he has packed on SO MUCH weight that his breathing problems have gotten worse. Oh poor baby. Just a thought because I'm dealing with this in Dixie, could his spleen be enlarged? Dixie has gained a good amount of weight recently and its all in her butt/abdomen area. I'm treating it with colloidal silver for 2 weeks before I take her in for a checkup. Something to consider. Enlarged spleens happen a lot in ferrets, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because of infections, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 14:28:05 GMT -5
Bandit has always had an enlarged spleen (at least since he started getting sick). It is one of the things we have been dealing with since he started showing his sickness over 2 years ago. We keep an eye on it as best we can. With the recent couple of xrays we've done in the past several weeks the vet says the spleen is of course still enlarged, but that it is pretty much the same size it has been and is smooth, so he isn't all that concerned about it. I think Bandit has just packed on a good bit of fat. His neck is even fat now ;D Although, whatever is going on in his gut might be making it worse as well. But it's weird, after he eats his soupie I SWEAR it's like he's eaten a brick and he's SO HEAVY. But before he eats the soup he doesn't feel nearly as heavy. But he only eats like 1-2oz at a time so I just don't understand how that lil bit o soup ends up weighing SO MUCH in his belly!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2012 22:38:07 GMT -5
OK, so I admit, I left 15 kibbles laying around in the cage last night to see if anyone would actually eat it (and I felt bad for Pogo that he hadn't eaten anything for hours before he went to bed). Well, someone woke me up at 6am eating them, and I'm pretty certain it was Pogo. Anywho, I'm not going to do that anymore and I'm REALLY going to try to make sure they all eat a little something before they go up for the night. But I must admit, this is hard as of late. For some reason my boys have been doing almost nothing but sleeping. From what I've read switching to raw tends to make most ferts more active, but mine seem to have done the opposite. I'm not sure what is up with them (except for Bandit as he sleeps a lot because he doesn't feel well). I feel bad for them. Sometimes I really feel like I'm not doing enough for them, keeping them entertained and occupied. Not sure what else I can do though. I want to take them for more stolls in their stroller, but not until it gets cooler. What do you normally do to keep your girls entertained?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 2:25:49 GMT -5
Okilee dokilee, Update time - So after 3 days fully on soupie it looks like the boys finally got the swing of it! Bandit ate 6oz today, but he fluctuates between 4-8oz daily (unsure as to why). Pogo ate 5.5oz today (and he had only been eating 3-4oz). Mischief ate 5oz (whereas he had only been eating 3-4oz). It also looks as if I'm going to have late night eaters, darnit, as they all ate 2-3oz of their meal today between 10:30pm and 2:30am. I am usually up late but I'd rather them switch to morning chowers. Is there a way to do this or do I just kinda have to go with their flow? Anywho, tomorrow I am going to start a log containing their weekly weights (or maybe more frequently), how much they each eat every day, what their deamenor and activity level is, etc. Is there anything I should add to this?
I know the next step is to start chunking the soup up slowly, but other than that is there anything else I should be doing at this stage? Also, is there any other info you would like from me to help with this switch (I ask because of the daily/weekly charts that are asked of the newly initiated into the mentoring program), or is there another way you prefer to do this?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 21:45:36 GMT -5
Woo!! Yay im so happy for you !!
Okay so you have two options - stay at the soup stage and mix in new proteins, or start getting them onto whole chunks of the protein they're on now.
Another thing to note, especially with Bandits possible sensitivities, are stool conditions. It would be awesome if we can eventually incorporate chicken into their diet as its a really good option for bone and variety.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 21:47:11 GMT -5
You're doing great, and just keep up what you're doing. Your boys will be there soon enough!
One thing you could try, since you already buy whole rabbits, is crushing up some bones with a tenderizing mallet and offering some or hiding it in the soup. You can also just cover the bones and meat with some ferretone and see how they react. Some take to bone much easier than others.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 22:56:34 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't know rabbit bones are OK for them to eat? I know some animal bones are too dense or splintery for them, just didn't know which ones.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 23:00:30 GMT -5
I bought some turkey breast today and we are going to try to incorporate it and see what happens. I'm gonna keep making the rabbit soupie and then just some plain turkey puree and try to mix it in. Rabbit is just so darn expensive. I bought 4 rabbits and 2 packs of pork organs for a total of $40 today, and this will only make about 6 batches of soup, which will last all of 4 days max. We really got to switch them to something different, but I don't want to mess up what we've accomplished so far so we are gonna do it as slow as our pocketbook will allow. Also, we are very slowly making the soup thicker and thicker so that as we add in the turkey we can already be ready to add chunks HOPEFULLY by the time they accept the turkey.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 23:52:11 GMT -5
Oh, I didn't know rabbit bones are OK for them to eat? I know some animal bones are too dense or splintery for them, just didn't know which ones. Raw bones don't splinter, really. It's cooked bone that do that. Now, some weight bearing bones can be too dense for ferrets to handle on their own, but smashing them usually helps make them edible. Weight bearing bones include mainly legs and thighs. But most of the bones from rabbits will be great. Spine, ribs, etc are usually not very dense and you can usually cut through them with a sharp pair of poultry shears or a cleaver.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 23:54:03 GMT -5
I bought some turkey breast today and we are going to try to incorporate it and see what happens. I'm gonna keep making the rabbit soupie and then just some plain turkey puree and try to mix it in. Rabbit is just so darn expensive. I bought 4 rabbits and 2 packs of pork organs for a total of $40 today, and this will only make about 6 batches of soup, which will last all of 4 days max. We really got to switch them to something different, but I don't want to mess up what we've accomplished so far so we are gonna do it as slow as our pocketbook will allow. Also, we are very slowly making the soup thicker and thicker so that as we add in the turkey we can already be ready to add chunks HOPEFULLY by the time they accept the turkey. That's great. The biggest accomplishment is getting them to accept the raw texture. I find that they normally accept new favors much easier from now on. This is a good time to start trying new proteins because they seem to be more accepting of it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2012 10:07:43 GMT -5
So its been a few days since I last posted (doesn't seem that long though). I've been super busy and Derrick hasn't been very available, so I haven't gotten current weights for the boys They just won't stay still on the scale long enough to get a weight for me, and they do better for Derrick, but I have to wait on him to help. I WILL be getting these weights soon though. Also, we have been dealing with Mischief being a pain this week. He JUST WON'T EAT easily. Last week he was so good with the soup and took it from the bowl easily. This week I have to chase him down, almost force my souped up finger down his throat, and then HOPE he'll eat from the bowl. We have only managed to get maybe 3oz down him for several days now (yesterday only 2.5oz). I'm actually becoming concerned about him, thinking that maybe something is wrong. I can tell he is hungry, but he just won't easily eat. And his energy level has been very high and he has been annoying the crap out of his brothers. I just don't know what is going on with him. But his weird breathing/coughing thing has also gotten worse over the past couple of weeks, so maybe something really is wrong with him. I swear, ferts just don't make life easy do they. His poops have been weird and off (today mostly mucous and TINY), but he IS still going a little so I don't know if I should be worried about this. I am going to TRY to force some extra pumpkin down him today to see if that helps, but he really doesn't like the stuff so again, going to have a hard time getting him to eat it. It just sux though cause I hate leaving my boys when I feed them a lot of pumpkin. I like to be home to watch and make sure they actually go poopie and get it all out, but I have to work tonight, and late. Hopefully everything will be OK. Anywho, as soon as we get over this hurdle I am going to up the chunkiness of the soup and try adding in the turkey to see if we can get them off the crazy expensive rabbit. I'll let you know how this all goes.
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