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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 23:38:06 GMT -5
I understand being busy (first day of school tomorrow ahhh! ;D)
Anyway, I appreciate the rundown on Bandit - I knew he was having multiple issues but it's nice to have a refresher.
Okay, I like the idea of going with a protein he's familiar with. That way, you can tell if its an allergic reaction or some other reaction (he's not allergic to rabbit or venison so we shouldn't have to worry about that). I would leave the organs out, but do save them. Ones I would keep are brain, heart, lungs, liver, kidney, spleen. Throw out the intestines, stomach. You also might want to do this outside because I hear rabbit smells. I would just start with plain meat. No bonemeal, no pumpkin. We can add things back in once we verify he's good with the plain meat.
Let's cross our fingers and hope Bandit does good with the soup tomorrow!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 23:45:22 GMT -5
Yeah, school, that is why we are planning a day out tomorrow cause my SO starts school next week and tomorrow is our last day together to do anything until Christmas (he has a HORRENDOUS schedule this semester), so we can sympathize there It's your last year for your current degree right? As for the organs, I will obviously be thawing out the rabbit to butcher it, so can I refreeze the organs or do I have to refergerate them? How long will they be good for? (I know, I am such a moron when it comes to the preperation of meat )
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 23:48:57 GMT -5
Yep, last year for my chem/bio degree. I have a couple prereqs I might take over the summer before applying to PA school.
Yep, refreezing is just dine. As long as you package them good, should be good for about 6-8 months give or take.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 23:57:28 GMT -5
K. Will let you know how it all goes. (Oh, not sure about the bonemeal, but all of them do just fine with pumpkin, so if you ever think I need to add it just let me know). Good luck tomorrow
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2012 23:59:02 GMT -5
OKay so you can add the pumpkin, 1 tsp per 8 oz of meat. We can add the bonemeal once we know he's good with the meat + pumpkin. I just want to make sure there's nothing else he's reacting too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 1:27:07 GMT -5
Again, I am still here Jackie We had planned on trying the rabbit today (we bought one yesterday), but decided against it as Bandit was having a bad day and wasn't feeling well. I REALLY want to switch my boys to raw, but I am not willing to make Bandit any sicker than he already is (as there is always the possibility that he will have an adverse reaction to raw and get sick like before), so at least in the beginning we will have to work around his bad days. Also, I don't want to start Bandit on the raw and have him associate raw with BAD if we were to give it to him on a bad day. To make things worse, if Bandit does get sick our vet is out of town for another week so we need to be rather careful at the moment. Either myself or my BF will be home all day tomorrow so I plan on trying the rabbit then. I plan on getting the boys up in the morning, giving them their requisit wet food and olive oil, and after they take their mid-morning nap (which should be a couple of hours - during which I will make the rabbit soupie), waking them up and trying the rabbit. I really hate the idea of Bandit being the guinea pig but if raw doesn't work for him we can't really do the raw thing for any of them. After all is done I will post the results. Paws crossed
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 1:28:25 GMT -5
Sounds like a great plan! I understand taking it slow and being cautious. Paws all crossed over here for tomorrow!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 15:02:55 GMT -5
NO THROWING UP YAY So I did 8oz of rabbit and 1tsp of pumpkin and made a rather wet (though partially meaty) soup. I waited 2 hours after their morning meal and then tried the soupie. We first gave Bandit some, but only a little to see how he would react. 20 minutes later he is fine and asleep again (we woke them up from their nap for the soupie). Then we woke them all up again and tried everyone. It did take Bandit a few tries to get him to actually eat it, but when he finally tried it he did great. He was eating out of the spoon and we let him eat about 1tbs (some water some meaty soup) before we decided that might be enough (didn't want to chance him getting sick). It is about 30 min later and he is doing fine. He actually liked it I think! However, he did have a REALLY nasty poo a minute ago. Is this normal? Emmett EVENTUALLY tried it after MUCH coaxing, but he didn't take to it well. The look in his eye said, "FINE, if I MUST eat this CRAP then I'll choke it down, but ONLY for a SECOND!" And a few times I swear I saw a in his eyes ;D I think we'll be able to get him to eat raw but he is going to protest a little and he probably won't eat much at a time in the beginning. Mischief surprisingly didn't want to try the soup. I say surprising because he eats EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. By the first time he came into contact with his brothers kibble he IMMEDIATELY switched himself! He tries to steal chocolate, milk, crackers, wheat thins, poptarts, bread, etc. We did get him to try the soupie and he ate a little, but not much. However, he will probably be the easiest switch next to Bandit. Pogo, ah Pogo. He will by far be the HARDEST switch ever. He REFUSED to open his mouth and he fought us with a passion (or maybe a vengence). Unfortunately, we cannot scruff Pogo, NOBODY can scruff Pogo. I've only read about one other ferret that is like this. If you scruff him he bites and fights and hisses and throws his body around til you drop him, and he paws at your hand and his scruff. Even my vet can't handle him. Luckily we have stopped vacinating him (YAY), but it had gotten to the point that we were going to have to start sedating him just to give him his shots. He is also very fast and can wiggle out of ANYTHING. This all being said, forcing him to do anything he doesn't want to do is nearly impossible. The only way we actually got him to take any of the soup was by putting a couple of drops of ferretone on the spoon with the soupie. Even then he only drank a little of the soup water. You'll have to help me figure out how to handle this little spitfire So a couple of questions. First, I still have a bowl full of soup left, can I save it? If so, do I need to freeze it or will it be OK in the fridge? How long will it last? I ask because it took almost the whole rabbit to get 8oz of meat and butchering it was rather time intensive. Second, what is our next step? Do we just keep trying the soupie til they take it from the bowl on their own? When should we start adding in the organs and bonemeal?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 22:38:30 GMT -5
NO THROWING UP YAY WOoo!!! What great news. It did take Bandit a few tries to get him to actually eat it, but when he finally tried it he did great. He was eating out of the spoon and we let him eat about 1tbs (some water some meaty soup) before we decided that might be enough (didn't want to chance him getting sick). It is about 30 min later and he is doing fine. He actually liked it I think! However, he did have a REALLY nasty poo a minute ago. Is this normal? His stomach will take a bit to adjust to the raw. It has a higher bacterial load, more fat, more protein. And all of this can cause GI upsets. It should resolve itself, and will probably improve once we add in the bonemeal. So yes, very normal. Emmett EVENTUALLY tried it after MUCH coaxing, but he didn't take to it well. The look in his eye said, "FINE, if I MUST eat this CRAP then I'll choke it down, but ONLY for a SECOND!" And a few times I swear I saw a in his eyes I think we'll be able to get him to eat raw but he is going to protest a little and he probably won't eat much at a time in the beginning. This is still a great step. It can usually take a lot more convincing to get to that point. Mischief surprisingly didn't want to try the soup. I say surprising because he eats EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. By the first time he came into contact with his brothers kibble he IMMEDIATELY switched himself! He tries to steal chocolate, milk, crackers, wheat thins, poptarts, bread, etc. We did get him to try the soupie and he ate a little, but not much. However, he will probably be the easiest switch next to Bandit. That's good - trying is the most important key. We just want to get them used to its taste, texture, flavor. Pogo, ah Pogo. He will by far be the HARDEST switch ever. He REFUSED to open his mouth and he fought us with a passion (or maybe a vengence). Unfortunately, we cannot scruff Pogo, NOBODY can scruff Pogo. I've only read about one other ferret that is like this. If you scruff him he bites and fights and hisses and throws his body around til you drop him, and he paws at your hand and his scruff. Even my vet can't handle him. Luckily we have stopped vacinating him (YAY), but it had gotten to the point that we were going to have to start sedating him just to give him his shots. He is also very fast and can wiggle out of ANYTHING. This all being said, forcing him to do anything he doesn't want to do is nearly impossible. The only way we actually got him to take any of the soup was by putting a couple of drops of ferretone on the spoon with the soupie. Even then he only drank a little of the soup water. You'll have to help me figure out how to handle this little spitfire Hunger is a great motivator. Letting him get more hungry could work well with him (and some of the others as well). So a couple of questions. First, I still have a bowl full of soup left, can I save it? If so, do I need to freeze it or will it be OK in the fridge? How long will it last? I ask because it took almost the whole rabbit to get 8oz of meat and butchering it was rather time intensive. Second, what is our next step? Do we just keep trying the soupie til they take it from the bowl on their own? When should we start adding in the organs and bonemeal? I usually can leave soup in the fridge for 1-3 days. After that, I toss or freeze. I would continue to try the soup the same way for a few days and see how they react to it. You can add in the bonemeal (1/2 tsp per 8 oz of meat) too, which will help with stools.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 23:06:41 GMT -5
First, about Pogo - we did make him hungry today and he STILL refused the soup (he's starting to gain winter weight early and is eating a TON, so every couple of hours, and we denied him kibble for about 3 before we gave up on the soupie and still waited another 30min to 1hr before giving him his kibble back). He actually protested by stomping around and throwing temper tantrums when we were trying to feed him the soupie and denying him his beloved kibble. He even protested AFTER we gave him his kibble back by digging up all his bedding I keep wrapped around the floor tray in their cage (something no one has EVER done before) Pogo maybe a tiny boy but he can really be a monster when he doesn't get his way (and this isn't his first tantrum by far) Secondly, so if you keep your soupie for 1-3 days, our soup should be OK until Saturday or Sunday? I ask because I likely won't be able to do the soupie tomorrow as I have to leave for work extra extra early (stupid RNC making me prove I work in Ybor and taking all my parking spaces). Actually, I'll be doing this for the next week, so except for my days off and unless my BF will be home, soupies might be put on hold. (I am probably being overprotective but it takes me half the day to feed them their soupie and I just don't have that kind of time on my BIG work days on the weekend. It took me nearly 7 hours today - I got them up and fed them their morning kibble, played them out, they went to sleep; 2 hours later I woke them up to try the soupie which took almost an hour for the four of them; then I waited another hour or so before I let them have anymore kibble; then I waited and watched for anyone to get sick. I know I can shorten some of these times, but until I'm comfortable that Bandit isn't going to get sick then I'll likely be a bit long-winded with it all.) SO anywho, we'll do the soupie again on Saturaday (as my BF will be home for most of the day) as long as you think the soupie will be OK. And again on Sunday if you think it might last that long. Otherwise I'll have my BF make another meat trip to the House of Meats Saturday.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 13:42:29 GMT -5
Day 2 of soupie trials... Same MO - waited 2 hours after morning feeding then tried same soupie that was made Thursday. Bandit - AMAZING JOB!!! Still no vomiting YAY. He took to the soup fairly quickly. While holding him he ate 2 teaspoons and I sat him down at the bowl and he ate about 1 or 2 more teaspoon fulls FROM THE BOWL If it wasn't for the rest of the biz we could probably move our way up to chunks pretty quickly - Oh well. Emmett - Still had a hard time getting him to try it. He finally licked a little off my finger. I tried with him several times and got him to eat MAYBE 1/2 teaspoon, but like most ferrets before him he thought I was trying to poison him And like Pogo did the last time, he is seriously P I S S E D off at Mom right now and is running around throwing a temper tantrum because I won't give him any kibble. He also tried to push over the soup bowl a couple of times Mischief - He actually tried it almost immediately and ate about 1 teaspoon before he gave up and ran away. I did wake him up from a nap that he didn't want to wake from, so this might have been part of the problem. Pogo - Again, it was impossible to open his mouth to get him to try the soupie and he squirmed and fought. I did actually manage to get him to eat almost 1 teaspoon full with a couple of drops of ferretone on top, but even that was a struggle and took a couple of tries. I still think Pogo is going to be VERY difficult. But at least he isn't throwing a tantrum like he did Thursday. But like last time he is scouring the house to find ANY stashed kibble he can (little does he know that Momma found everything, or what I hope is everything ). I would love to try again later today but I have to go to work soon and will be there all night. If you think the soupie from Thursday will still be good tomorrow (day 3 in the fridge) then I'll try with them again then. If you don't think the soup would be OK then we'll probably wait until after Hurricane Issac passes thru as I'd hate to have something horrible happen and not be able to get to the vet (if they will even be open). I did buy another rabbit today, but since we don't know what the Hurricane will do I was hoping to keep it until Monday and make a new batch of soupie then that will last the couple of days thru the aftermath of the Hurricane. Stupid storm is putting a damper on everything! I really hope you and all your babies (and the brand new Nixie!!!) will be safe and warm and cozzy at home!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 19:44:11 GMT -5
Bandit - AMAZING JOB!!! Still no vomiting YAY. He took to the soup fairly quickly. While holding him he ate 2 teaspoons and I sat him down at the bowl and he ate about 1 or 2 more teaspoon fulls FROM THE BOWL If it wasn't for the rest of the biz we could probably move our way up to chunks pretty quickly - Oh well. Oh what a good boy! He knows whats good for him [/img] And like Pogo did the last time, he is seriously P I S S E D off at Mom right now and is running around throwing a temper tantrum because I won't give him any kibble. He also tried to push over the soup bowl a couple of times [/quote] Aw poor baby just wants his kibbles. Mischief - He actually tried it almost immediately and ate about 1 teaspoon before he gave up and ran away. I did wake him up from a nap that he didn't want to wake from, so this might have been part of the problem. That is good progress! Pogo - Again, it was impossible to open his mouth to get him to try the soupie and he squirmed and fought. I did actually manage to get him to eat almost 1 teaspoon full with a couple of drops of ferretone on top, but even that was a struggle and took a couple of tries. I still think Pogo is going to be VERY difficult. But at least he isn't throwing a tantrum like he did Thursday. But like last time he is scouring the house to find ANY stashed kibble he can (little does he know that Momma found everything, or what I hope is everything ). Okay so it sounds like most are at least willing to try some. The soup should be fine tomorrow, so I would try again and see how it goes. If you have left overs you might be able to freeze that. I pick up Nyxie tomorrow at Orlando airport (so excited!!!). Better to get her here before the storm in case SW FL gets impacted bad. Stay safe, give your boys a hug for me and hopefully we won't be affected too much.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 15:05:43 GMT -5
First things first - I just saw that you and Nyxie are in the car and driving home so YAY to that! I'm so happy she arrived safely! Now you guys just need to get home safely. We are already getting some storms here, but I don't think anything major will hit until later tonight at the earliest. I know you guys are closer to the coast than we are so STAY SAFE. Are you guys in a flood zone??? We live close to the river but just far enough away that we won't have to worry about flood waters as they are expecting heavy storm surges here in Tampa. I hope you guys are going to have to deal with that! I unfortunately have to work tonight AND tomorrow morning at the OUTSIDE bar (which is partially covered), BLEH! My BF said he will be staying home tonight, be they haven't cancelled classes at USF tomorrow, so the boys will be on their own DURING THE STORM Is your school still opened tomorrow? I really hope not! Oh yeah, and I like everyone else on here DEMAND PICTURES Now onto other things - I'm sure you will have your hands full with Nyxie over the next few days along with the blasted hurricane, so this will probably be good for the both of us, but I won't be trying the soupie thang for a couple of days JUST IN CASE anything happens as the hurricane will already be causing more problems for us than we need. One reason for this is that with the next batch of soupie I'll be making I want to add the bonemeal, and even though it is unlikely, I don't want to chance Bandit having a reaction to it in the middle of the storm. However, we did try once again today, but not as well as I'd have liked. Bandit didn't get any today as my BF didn't keep track of the last time he had his kibble and I didn't have all day to work the time between kibble and raw with Bandit, but I'm sure he probably would have eaten the raw fine just like the good boy that his is. Mischief did really well! He ate a teaspoonfull and then actually ate about another teaspoonfull OUT OF THE BOWL ON HIS OWN! Though he did prefer the spoon. Emmett again didn't want any, but he ate about a teaspoonful before he REALLY had to RUN AWAY. Pogo, yeah, Pogo. THe usual ensued with him. He refused and fought. I didn't add any ferretone this time as I really don't want to have to revert to that every time we try raw with him. I did manage to get him to try a little but he just wan't having it. I had planned on trying one more time with them all and actually holding them down a bit longer to make them actually eat some, but right when I was going to do this my BF decided it was time to try out the new gas latern he bought for the storm and it SMOKED us out of half of our house. Then Emmett started shaking really bad (I don't think it was the raw - it was probably the smoke as he is a little scaredy cat) but just to be on the safe side I wanted to make sure I could get some kibble into him before I left for work, so I didn't have time for another raw try. Anywho, I'm off Tuesday and will make our next batch of soupie then as hopefully most of the storms from the hurricane will have passed by then. And this week we will be a bit stricter about making them try/eat the soupie. But to ask, is it OK to force the soupie on them at this stage??? Or are we simply going to have to make them go half the day with no kibble to see if they will eat the soupie on their own? I'll keep you all in my prayers for your safety during the storm. You guys stay safe OK. And again, since you'll probably be stuck at home and dealing with the newbie, PICS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 15:19:15 GMT -5
Okie, new batch new tactics. Made a new soupie today with the rabbit, the pumpkin, and added the bonemeal:
Bandit - AWESOME yet again!!! Put 1 heaping tablespoon and one regular tablespoon in a bowl, heated it up a bit and he ate it right out of the bowl with no coaxing! He ate almost all of it. I think he would have finished it if I had forced the situation but we are unsure of the bonemeal and if he'll have a reaction to it. It's been about 20 min and so far so good.
Emmett - Didn't like it much but ate about a teaspoonful without much coaxing. Mischief - SUCH A GOOD BOY!!! Got him licking the spoon on his own, then lowered it to the bowl and he ate right out of the bowl. He ate about 1 tablespoon then went back to bed.
Pogo - Ok, he is really going to be a problem. Spent about 15 min trying to get him to eat by holding him. He got really stressed and refused to open his mouth. We tried again 3 more times and we finally got him to eat a little off the spoon, but only when we put a little pumpkin on the top. Then I managed to get him to eat a little more OUT OF THE BOWL, but only with xtra pumpkin mixed in. All said, he still only ate about a half a teaspoon of actual soupie. I finally gave in and gave him some wet kibble because it has been about 5 hours since he last ate and he is eating to gain winter weight so he is eating every 2 hours or so. I just didn't want him to be too hungry and too stressed. I really want to get a video of him so we can show you how he reacts to being held and scruffed so we can try to figure something else out as he DOES NOT allow us to scruff and hold him. I'm really going to need help with how to handle him or we'll never get him switched.
I have spent the past 4 hours working on the boys with their soupie as I've decided to push them more with it. They all last had kibble at 10:30 and I was wanting to try the soupie at least twice with each one, but all of them (except for Pogo) have only gotten up once and I have to go to work soon. Unfortunately, my BF isn't going to be as helpful with this as I'd hoped (he said his school is super stressful this semester) so the boys will only be pushed on days I'm home with them all day. SO, tomorrow I will be home all day so I'm going to feed them kibble in the morning only (except maybe for Pogo depending on how he does) and push the soupie throughout the day as they get up, then give the kibble back at night and see how it goes. I hope this is a good plan at this phase. I just feel like we haven't been trying hard enough with them (though partially due to Bandit's issues) and I want to get back on track. However, I worry if we'll be set back when we add the organ meat again!?! FYI on that, I'm planning on adding the organs back in on my first day off next week (Wednesday) so I will be home to watch Bandit. But the only organs I can find other than beef and chicken are pork heart and liver. Will this be OK? Til then I'll just keep making batches of the soupie I made today!
I am going to buy a food processor tomorrow because I wonder if part of our problem is that the soupie isn't really a true soupie as there are still little strings of meat in it because our blender sucks! It doesn't bother Bandit and Mischief, but I wonder if Emmett and Pogo would take to it better if it was actually soup. You think this matters much??? I ask because a decent food processor costs AT LEAST $100 and we haven't been making very good tips lately so money is a bit tighter than normal.
Sorry is so long. Hopefully will be shorter when we know how they all react to REAL soup with organs!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2012 15:35:53 GMT -5
Ok, quick update before work - Mischief just woke up again and took right to the soupie in the bowl He didn't eat much though, only about 1/4 of the big tablespoon I put in there, but at least he took right to it. He is searching for any stashed kibble though I'm leaving now so my BF will be feeding them kibble for the rest of the night. I will give you another update after their first feeding tomorrow!
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