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Post by Heather on Apr 21, 2012 19:10:00 GMT -5
Name: Mandelle HF Forum Username: MJBez
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I came across natural diets when researching the best options for my 3 ferrets. (internet)
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I would like to switch completely to a raw diet. I was thinking I would start with a commercial raw (I would like to know if I can do this instead of soupies.. just mushing commercial raw and water. They are used to eating some soft food) After this, I was thinking about introducing raw foods (not whole prey though). I want the benefits of the bones for cleaning teeth etc and it would probably be cheaper to make at home raw diets than buy commercial? (I'm not really sure if this is true, just my assumption)
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I want the absolute best for my ferrets. I switched them off of their 8in1 ultimate (suggestion of my vet) to evo. However, since the switch (a few weeks ago) my oldest female has had some bum issues and they have had grainy poops. It concerns me, and I feel perhaps that wasn't the best switch.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? I am willing to make the commitment for the betterment of their health.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? Kyra - will be 4 in June. Female. Some recent rectal prolapsing (mild) with food switch. She is a healthy weight. I have had her 3.5 years. Mika - turned 3 in Feb. Female. Had rectal prolapsing. Has had very itchy skin. I treated this with 100% colloidal oatmeal soak! Her skin is better now. Recently diagnosed adrenal gland disease (I had blood work, no treatment yet, it is very early stage) Today I had a anal glad abscess taken care of . She is pretty healthy weight (I would say a little chubby). I have had her almost 3 years. Bear- 2 1/2. Male. No medical issues. However, is going to need dental cleaning soon. He is a healthy weight. I have had him a little over 2 years.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I switched to Evo cat and kitten food a few weeks ago. They get evo 95% meat soft food once daily (beef or chicken). Treats - Very rarely get marshall treats (bandits) and even more rarely "ferret chew treats"
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? not fully no. I did give raw chicken once... they kinda sniffed and nibbled and then tried to run and store it! I don't think they were hungry though, it was meant to be a treat so not much eaten.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? They are the sweetest babies ever! Lol. I care so much about them. They are my family!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Practically everyday
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
(in order of Kyra, Mika, Bear.)
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Hurricanekatt) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure, failure to do so could mean that you are dropped from the program. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by katt on Apr 22, 2012 2:01:26 GMT -5
Name: Katt HF Screen Name: hurricanekatt
Location: Anchorage, Alaska Skpye name: hurricane.katt – I am on Skpye a lot so feel free to pop in and chat, or ask questions you want a quick answer to.
About Me: I just graduated in May 2011 with my Bachelor of Science in Biology. I’ll be taking a year off to enjoy myself, work on my application, and hopefully do some volunteer work in Africa before applying for Medical School for the 2010 school year. I love animals and kids and I am hoping to go into a medical field where I can work with kids - possibly pediatric cardiology or oncology, or perhaps general peds, or even family medicine. I really won’t know until I get there and try things out for myself – there’s so much you can do!
My favorite color is..... Green My favorite food is.... Salmon! Yum! My favorite holiday is... Christmas My favorite hobby is... studying. Just kidding. I do love to read though. I like to do different types of art including drawing and painting. I recently started making dream catchers too. I enjoy horseback riding, playing with my critters, and enjoying time with my boyfriend. And the critters of course! Oh, and I am a bit of a forum junkie. Hehe I am on too many forums to count for a variety of things. Mostly animals.
I like to listen to... Almost anything. I like all genres of music (though I do have my favorites – like Rock, and less preferred – like rap/hip hop). My music is pretty diverse. There is no genre I dislike, just specific songs. haha
I collect... pets. Actually, I do collect foreign money. I used to collect stuffed rabbits and model horses and any number of other things too, but with how much I move and the limited storage in my old apartment, I had to slim down. I kept my favorites of course!
Something about me you might be suprised to know... Um…I don’t know that I am that surprising of a person.
I became a mentor because... I really like helping people (hence the whole wanting to be a doctor thing ) and animals. I am a strong supporter of a natural diet and probably bore most people that I meet to death ranting about raw diet and why it is the best way to go…this way I can rant to someone who actually cares!
About My Ferrets: Koda – male, Real Canadian, I got him when he was about 8 weeks old when I bought him in December 2009, Sable. I gave him raw the second he came home and he immediately ripped into it and started hissing to keep me away from his tasty prize! Neither of us has ever looked back. He is a real trouble maker and is pretty well known around the forums as such. He is my first ferret and he has forced me to learn and learn FAST! He has managed to eat several foreign objects, and is constantly finding new trouble to get into (his nose has a rubber detector in it). He had to have an emergency blockage surgery, which (we believe) ended up being the catalyst that resulted in his IBD. He loves digging the carpet up, or more recently chewing it, has a very serious oral fixation (if his mouth can stretch wide enough for his teeth to touch it – he will chew it), he will rearrange the room to reach things, has learned how to levitate, and is an all around little monster. He is also very strongly bonded to my boyfriend and I, and can be a huge love bug. When the endless energy is finally burned off, he will curl up in our laps, give us kisses, and fall asleep. As you can tell, I have this problem where I can’t stop talking about him or taking pictures of him… He has IBD which we struggled to get control of (and finally succeeded!) with diet. Recently he started showing signs of juvenile adrenal disease and is currently getting Lupron shots while we wait for Des to arrive off of backorder.
Kneai: male, Silber/Black Roan Mitt. I brought Kenai home towards the end of November 2010 when he was about 7-8 weeks old. He is also eating 100% raw diet, whole prey, franken prey, meaty bones you name it! He was a tiny little bag of bones when I brought him home, but he eats like a pig and grows like a weed! He is now huge and rolly-polly! definitely a little porker - he can barely make it out of his rice box because he is so bottom heavy. lmao He finally started shedding some fur and a little winter weight and is slimming up, but he is still a clumsy critter. haha He loves, LOVES toys and is a loveable, goofy little guy and has been helping to keep Koda company and burn off each others energy! He's definitely a little spaz - I thought Koda was until I got Kenai! He's a bit of a simpleton. He has trouble finding the potty box a lot, and he doesn’t learn very fast. He also is much less physically adept at things – he has trouble climbing and getting into/onto/out of things. He is sloooowly figuring out how to control his floppy body, but he definitely has some developmental delays. But, we love him just the same.
About My Natural Feeding Experience: I've been feeding raw since December 2009 when I brought Koda home. Thanks to this forum, I was ready for a fuzzball to come home with my freezer stocked with meats! I gave him a raw chicken wing his first night home and that was the end of that! He is fed frankenprey, f/t roents, and live prey. Unfortunately, his diet is somewhat restricted because of his IBD, but we've finally got a bit of variety back in. I have been reading and learning since before I brought Koda home and learned a lot from the people here on the forum. I am always on the forum, and various websites trying to learn more about ferrets in general, and especially raw diet. My boys are healthy, energetic, have super soft fur, and smell so good that people regularly comment, asking me what perfume or spray I sprayed them (esp Koda) with! I love telling them: Thanks to a raw diet - he just smells that good naturally! When Kenai first came home he had been eating Marshall's kibble and his poops were HUGE and smelled...awful doesn't even come close to describing it! Now he smells much better and his scraggly coat has been replaced by a luxurious pile of fur.
Type of Mentor: In Training! I feed frankenprey, raw meats, bone-in meats, ground meats, frozen/thawed rodents, live prey, and recently added (for treats and supplemental) freeze dried raw and commercially ground raw. I have never fed kibble so I can’t help with picking a good kibble…
My Specialty: Trouble makers! I focus on full switches to raw – no more kibble!
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Post by katt on Apr 22, 2012 2:03:26 GMT -5
I know you hve been working with some commercial raw with success, so let's get the full detailed run down of your routine. What are you feeding, when, how often, etc. Do you feed in set meals, or do you free range feed? Then we'll get started!
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Post by mjbez on Apr 22, 2012 19:47:16 GMT -5
Hi Katt, Im very excited to get started on this! I have had some success with commercial. I have the NV duck. Bear and Mika love it! However, Kyra really doesnt care for it atm. I think it is the texture. I did make some chicken soupie. I fed it Friday evening. Bear eats lots! Mika ate a pretty good amount but Kyra needed to be finger fed. yesterday (saturday) I took away kibble in the morning and let them out. A couple hours with no food I offered duck and chicken. (I add a bit of water to commercial duck to make it more like a soupie. Bear and Mika prefer that atm). I left the food out (and had to refill because Bear eats alot!) from about 11 am til 7pm (when I left the house for a few hours) During this time Bear ate a few ounces of food! Mika ate a good amount as well. I had to continue to feed Kyra food on my finger. I put chicken soupie in the cage while I left for a couple of hours. It looked untouched. (except some water evapourated... making it look gross!) I took each ferret out to see if they would have a snack at about 11pm last night. Bear ate, Mika ate and Kyra also ate. I would estimate she ate about a tbsp or 2. (sorry no exact measurements) I put them to bed and offered kibble a couple of hours later. (for night) Not much kibble was eaten. Today, I took kibble out at about 1030. I offered chicken soupie (2 oz) and it was gone between Bear and Mika. (Kyra maybe ate a tsp off my finger) Since that got slurped up I offered leftover duck. Mika ate most of this herself, but Bear ate a small amount. (it was only about .5oz worth) I defrosted more soupie and while Bear and Mika slept I offered Kyra some. One cube is about 1 oz (i weigh as I fill the ice cube tray to get at least 1oz in each) Kyra ate a little over half! I crumbled about 2 evo kibbles on top and she gobbled up. I will be offering more duck and soupie probably 2 more times before they go to bed. I think Kyra's problem is the texture. I have been adding a bit more water to my defrosted soupie to make it thinner.. because she doesnt like the slimy pieces! I did blend for quite a while (and chop my chicken first) in the food processor but there are these pieces of... I think skin that seem like slime! She doesnt love them, and I try to put them to the side.... Bear slurps em up!) update 9 pm- Kyra ate almost a full oz to herself of the soupie! (minus a couple pieces of "slime" Bear and Mika share about another oz of duck together. For work this week, I am not sure what to do... bear and Mika are eating what I have offered so far great, but Kyra does need prompting yet. I will be gone for work at about 750-430. Do I leave kibble? I worry about Kyra not eating while I am away.
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Post by mjbez on Apr 22, 2012 19:49:55 GMT -5
I know you hve been working with some commercial raw with success, so let's get the full detailed run down of your routine. What are you feeding, when, how often, etc. Do you feed in set meals, or do you free range feed? Then we'll get started! To put these in a nut shell: Set meals: not yet, this weekened I just wanted to try and get them as used to it as possible, so free range all day. Kibble at night. I am feeding commercial duck and homemade chicken soupie. When I work (during the week) I would like to feed 2 times a day.
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Post by katt on Apr 23, 2012 3:53:41 GMT -5
Sounds like you're off to a good start! Keep an eye on Kyra, it sounds like she is eating some but I don't want her losing weight. Keep up with the hand feeding soupies until she gets a little more used to it. For now go ahead and leave a small bowl of kibble out while you are at work, but try leaving a small bowl/plate of soupies too. As they begin to eat the soup more consistently, then we will replace kibble entirely with soup. I think you are actually very close to that point. Let me know how they do tomorrow!
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Post by mjbez on Apr 23, 2012 18:06:11 GMT -5
So I think today has been a success so far! I will post now, as I have to leave to go to zumba later, and may not have time to post again when I get home. This morning, before work, I took out the fuzbutts to feed them soupie. Mika and Bear shared about an oz of duck. Kyra ate half an ounce of chicken soupie!!! (.6oz) It still took finger feeding to get her started but she then ate well! I took her weight and she is still 1lb 10oz. Tiny litte thing! But no loss! When I put them in their cage I gave more soupie and 1/8 cup kibble. Bear went straight to the chicken soupie and ate about another oz! Right after the duck. So he ate close to one and a half oz. When I got home (just about an hour ago) I let them out and offered fresh food. Bear and Mika again shared about an oz of duck (just a little left over) and Kyra ate only .1-.2 oz. Just a little so far, but I will work with her some more before I go. There was some soupie eaten out of the cage while I was away. I dont know who ate it but it was probably between .5 - 1 oz gone. There was still 1/8 cup kibble. (maybe a couple eaten... I didnt count em ;D I am happy that very little (if any) kibble was eaten. I think that shows no one is starving (and the soupie was prefered by at least someone!)
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Post by katt on Apr 24, 2012 3:32:26 GMT -5
Yay! That is good progress. Keep hand feeding little miss Kyra until she gets the idea. As soon as she's eating the soupies more reliably you can remove the kibble entirely! Until then I'd leave the kibble out while you are gone just to be on the safe side. Keep me posted on how they are doing. As for the meats, what do you have access to? It sounds to me that you want to do a combination of commercial raw and frankenprey (also called RMB, raw meaty bones, and BARF, bones and raw food - don't let the different names fool you, it's all the same thing)? What commercial raw do you have access to (if you happen to have links to them that would be helpful). What types of meats can you get in your area? Check out Asian and other ethnic markets, they are an amazing resource for the "weird" meats like organs and rabbit and such. We aren't there yet, but we will need variety and balance so if you even have time to go exploring some stores to see what is available that will help us prepare. Keep up the good work!
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Post by mjbez on Apr 24, 2012 10:19:10 GMT -5
The commercial that I am using right now is Nature's Variety: www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/dog/all I know I can get the duck (which is what I have, venison, bison, beef, chicken, lamb. I cannot get the rabbit in this formula or the organic chicken.) I plan on using the lamb and maybe venison. I dont want to get beef or chicken because I can feed raw myself of those meats. I have access to these commercials as well: Carnivora (similar meat options to the NV. They do have rabbit but at a crazy price! Something like 27 bucks for 8 lbs ) There is also Spring Meadows which is like Carnivora. Now i think carnivora removes tripe and SM doesnt. I can double check on that. www.springmeadowsnaturalpetfood.com/. For raw I have bought: chicken wings, chicken backs, pork loin (this is no bone), chicken hearts, pork liver, pork kidney. I plan on also buying some beef options (no bone), chicken necks, and pork rib ends for another type of bone in. I will have to check my city for asian markets. I'm sure there are some, so I can check for some more "exotic meats". But would I need to if I am feeding chicken, pork, beef and lamb or duck? (I will probably alternate the commercial, I dont have room for 2 bags in my freezer with all the other!!) I know rabbit tends to be very pricy here. But I sure don't mind taking a look to see what I can find! Update: Mika and Bear are eating both duck and chicken soupies like troopers! Kyra is still a little stubborn but its not the fight it was at first. I will update you on the amounts of food later today, as my log of that info is at home, and I am at work! UPDATE: I will have to post now, before the very end of day. Last night (overnight) I put in close to 1.5 oz of soupie and only about 2 tsp left this morning. This AM feeding. Kyra ate a tiny bit. between .1-.2 oz Mika ate duck and then chicken (about .5 between the two) and Bear ate duck and chicken (probably close to 1oz between the two). During work I left about 1.5 oz soupie and it was almost all gone when I got home. A little bit of kibble was gone as well. Evening feeding (5o'clock) Kyra ate .3 oz. Bear and Mika ate as well (not sure of measurements, as they both seem to be eating healthy amounts)
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Post by katt on Apr 25, 2012 3:16:43 GMT -5
Did Kyra eat that on her own, finger fed, spoon fed...? If she's still being hand fed, work on transitioning her away from it. Slowly lower your finger to the spoon, then the spoon to the bowl. Then just hold her in your lap in front of the bowl, etc. I'd like to have her eating it on her own here in the next 2-3 days (or sooner if possible). Then once they are all caught up we can work on making the soup thicker and start on some chunks. Something you may want to try with Kyra is a chunks of chicken. Hand feed her tiny slivers and see what she thinks of it. Some ferrets (not many but it does happen more than you might think) just aren't fans of soup in general and prefer chunks. If it helps flavor wise, start by dipping a tiny sliver of chicken into the soup. This is going to be the one of the next steps anyways (slowly adding small chunks into the soup, then decreasing the soup as we increase the chunks) so it never hurts to try and skip ahead. If they don't go for it, fine we continue the slow and steady way, if they do, great one more step complete.
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Post by mjbez on Apr 25, 2012 10:37:13 GMT -5
For Kyra, I usually dip my finger in the soup a couple of times as she licks it off. I move my finger close to the bowl and then she continues to eat on her own. I will try just taking her to the bowl and not finger feeding at all (I skipped the spoon all together). Kyra has gone to the bowl on her own to eat too (on one occasion I have seen). But often, to get started i finger feed otherwise she just sticks up her nose and goes to walk away! ;D I am sure she must be eating some of the soup I am putting in her cage, because the 1/8th cup kibble has lasted a couple days (and is still not even gone!) Also, there is never much soupie left by morning. I will start chunks soon. I will take some chicken out to defrost so I can cut it into slivers. I still cannot get kyra used to the texture of the duck (which is a little chunky and almost grainy.) She just makes a face and tries to run away! LOL! What a stinker!Kyra is getting a little more used to the slimy texture of the chicken in the soup! She has stopped going into a panick and dropping it out of her mouth and she will even chew some of the slimies up now! Can I do slivers of other meat? Or should I stick to chicken for now since it's chicken soup that I have in the freezer? I was wondering about pork? If I should wait to introduce that that I will wait! Kyra ate .3oz this morning for me. I dipped my finger in the soup twice to get her interest and then she ate! I tried to just crumble the duck for Mika and Bear (instead of mushing with a bit of water) but Bear would have nothing to do with it at this point (Mika wasn't touching it either) So I added just a little bit of water so it is like a thick paste. They ate it But not as much today. But still a decent amount. Mika then ate chicken.
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Post by mjbez on Apr 25, 2012 20:54:10 GMT -5
Kyra ate on her own this evening! I just called her to it and showed her and nom nom noms! She even chewed up her "slimies". Also to report weights (I did do this after they ate... but I hope these are ok) Bear- Was 2.6oz Now 2.9 (almost 2.10) He has lots of energy Mika- Was 2.4 Now 2.7! Her energy isnt perfect, but i attribute that to the antibiotics (we are almost done the 2 weeks) she is fairly active though I Kind of thought Mika might lose weight. She is a little bit pudgy, although she doesn't look fatter to me, but she feels so solid! Kyra - Was 1.10oz and still is. Her energy level is good. Shes never too playful but she prefers to follow me around and lick my ankles! She is awake for as long as they are out (up to a few hours at a time) which is an improvement! I have noticed one change in the litter box: Smaller poops and way more pee! Wow there is so much pee! ;D
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Post by mjbez on Apr 26, 2012 13:00:33 GMT -5
Last night and today I am trying to not give any kibbles. The 1/8th cup still wasn't gone yesterday afternoon after being a few days... so I figured I could probably pull it all together! Kyra ate on her own last night when I put some fresh soupies in their cage and she also did this morning with no finger feeding at all. So she is really making progress! They seemed to do fine last night with no kibbles so today I left them out as well. Kyra ate half an ounce this morning by herself, so I'm thinking she is getting enough food.
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Post by mjbez on Apr 26, 2012 23:13:56 GMT -5
Sorry for all of the posts! But i just wanted to let you know that I introduced small chicken chunks into their soupie today. The pieces are approx the size of raisins. (some slightly larger, some smaller) I gave a piece to Mika and she ate it.. and another and she chewed and let it drop to the floor lol. She did eat a few more though. Bear did not have much interest in food when I tried. He ate one sliver for me, but I don't think he would be too picky about them. I was really surprised with Kyra! She actually ate some of them! I fed them directly off my finger (which i do not do for soup anymore) and she ate them. It took a couple tries (she would chew then just drop it and look at me like "what else?" lol. Once she got a taste for them she even went and picked one off the plate herself! She ate a few small pieces (and then just wanted to horde them in her tunnels!) I will continue to add slivers, and will increase the amount of them in their soup!
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Post by katt on Apr 27, 2012 3:41:35 GMT -5
For Kyra, I usually dip my finger in the soup a couple of times as she licks it off. I move my finger close to the bowl and then she continues to eat on her own. I will try just taking her to the bowl and not finger feeding at all (I skipped the spoon all together). Kyra has gone to the bowl on her own to eat too (on one occasion I have seen). But often, to get started i finger feed otherwise she just sticks up her nose and goes to walk away! Good, that's a start. Keep working on getting her to eat it without your help. I am sure she must be eating some of the soup I am putting in her cage, because the 1/8th cup kibble has lasted a couple days (and is still not even gone!) Also, there is never much soupie left by morning. Perhaps try leaving a few pieces of kibble and see if any is getting eaten. Leave say 15-20 pieces (count them) and count them when you get home. If none are missing, then I'd say we're pretty good on removing them, just keep an eye on Kyra to make sure she is eating and eating enough. I will start chunks soon. I will take some chicken out to defrost so I can cut it into slivers. I still cannot get kyra used to the texture of the duck (which is a little chunky and almost grainy.) She just makes a face and tries to run away! LOL! What a stinker!Kyra is getting a little more used to the slimy texture of the chicken in the soup! She has stopped going into a panick and dropping it out of her mouth and she will even chew some of the slimies up now! Good! Keep working on both. The duck might be a matter of taste as well, it has a slightly stronger taste than chicken, but it's really good for them. Nice and fatty as far as poultry goes. Can I do slivers of other meat? Or should I stick to chicken for now since it's chicken soup that I have in the freezer? I was wondering about pork? If I should wait to introduce that that I will wait!Go for it! The chunky soup phase is a perfect time to introduce new variety because it's so easy to hide the new food in the old soup. Then you can gradually decrease the soup and increase the new food. Same thing goes for chunks. Over the course of a few days to a few weeks - just depends on the ferrets - you decrease the amount of soup and increase the amount of chunks in the bowl until eventually they are eating plain chunks. Kyra ate .3oz this morning for me. I dipped my finger in the soup twice to get her interest and then she ate! I tried to just crumble the duck for Mika and Bear (instead of mushing with a bit of water) but Bear would have nothing to do with it at this point (Mika wasn't touching it either) So I added just a little bit of water so it is like a thick paste. They ate it But not as much today. But still a decent amount. Mika then ate chicken.Sounds like they are still getting used to the taste. Keep trying. Mix a little in with the soup that they DO like. (See above). Mix their current soup, with a little bit of duck, and ever so slowly increase the duck and decrease the other food(s).
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