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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 2:01:35 GMT -5
I've made a double batch of the raw soup and been feeding it to Teddy (smearing it on his nose/mouth) three times a day, but I'll start upping that after what Sherry said.
I bought some Orijen I can give away to my in-laws to mix with his Marshall's so he's not just eating that awful stuff in the meantime. I want to take the kibble away but he's so thin and he was nearly starved to death as a baby (see thread "Welcome to the Family" for background story) that I'm afraid to take it away if he's not going to eat the soup on his own just yet. I don't want him eating any kibble though. You guys can advise, while I'm waiting for my mentor.
So the deal is I've been smearing it on him since Sunday (Saturday and most of Sunday we let him settle into his new surroundings in his old cage before moving him to a new one with clean bedding Sunday). Anyway, I've been doing it lots but he still gives the "ewwy, lemon pucker" face. It's hilarious and very cute but I get the sense it may take him awhile to eat it of his own accord. I'm not complaining, though.
Also, since I made a double batch - 1 lb. chicken thighs, skin and fat intact, bone removed - 1 teaspoon eggshell powder, 2 hearts, 1 liver ground up, mixed with 1 cup of water - is that thin enough? Does it need more water?
How do you powder the eggshell? I ground it by hand and food-processed it but the soup still seems a little gritty.
Last question for here - is it normal for them to cough up several colorless blobs of what looks like fat after the first feeding? He did this on Sunday after I fed him the soup.
Thanks so much guys! I'm so excited, I adore him, and just can't wait for him to be a fully raw ferret!
ETA: Just wanted to clarify that I will take kibble away fully right away if it's necessary, just in his case what with (1 the starving and (2 also being so small and thin I wasn't sure if it would traumatize him, what with him being so new to our home and all.
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Post by Heather on Mar 9, 2011 3:07:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't take his kibbles away. You've got stress issues and a starvation issue not that long ago in his past. He needs all the nutrition that he can get. I would go soft on this one.
I use a mortar and pestle to grind my egg shells. Sherry uses a coffee grinder.
Are you feeding by spoon yet or are you still finger feeding? In the beginning his tummy might reject the fat if he gets too much at once. Has he had problems after the weekend? Keep us posted
ciao
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 3:19:07 GMT -5
Okay, good, that's what I thought. Someone thought I might want to take them away but his particular case made me afraid to, thanks for that! I can get either of those from Bed, Bath, and Beyond here so I'm going to go shopping as soon as I can (probably Friday). Still finger feeding - dolloping, he spits (flicks it out with his tongue) it out. After the first day I didn't notice any more fatty blob rejecting. He hasn't had any problems, I never see him eat any kibble which slightly concerns me but he poops about twice a day, very little. I've not seen him flat-ferreting but he sleeps a TON (often in our arms, he's sleeping in Peter's arms right now). We are taking him everywhere with us, on walks, to the store, etc. We have a carrier with a latch door he can stay in, in the truck if the store only allows service animals, and Shar stands guard in the truck with him (but he's not accessible to her that way). Thank you!!!!  Can hardly wait till you're freed up to take me on, I really appreciate you agreeing to do so. This is going to be so much fun, well, it already is! |
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Post by taratee on Mar 9, 2011 3:26:33 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 8:53:44 GMT -5
You know, you could soften that Marshall's food with water too and get him used to the texture of soupies with a flavor he knows. The nice things is this will help keep him hydrated too! Ultimately, since Paulie was on a Marshall soupie diet post surgery, he started recognizing ground raw soupies as food. (He now eats NV soupies and won't eat chunks--but I think it has to do with his IBD). We tried switching on our own before the Marshall's soups, but he very vocally refused. My parent's garage cats got a free raw meal out of the deal (and they thought it was awesome) Hehe. Good luck!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 9:41:43 GMT -5
Sounds like you have a stubborn fuzzy! I like the idea of mixing it with familiar tastes.
You might also try some type of oil (olive, fish). My girls LOVe olive oil and will try anything with olive oil on it. I've also had a lot of success with freeze dried food from Stella and Chewys. I bread new meats in it and my girls will usually try it easily. I had no problems switching my girls to fully freeze dried.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 9, 2011 11:28:07 GMT -5
Actually, that is an idea for now. Use hot water to soak down some kibbles, and puree it all together with the raw. That way, he might be a bit more willing to start licking it from your finger at least. You can always phase the kibbles out when he stabilizes more.
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Post by Heather on Mar 9, 2011 14:19:22 GMT -5
What is his kibble of origin? What was he being fed by his previous people? You need to step back. One of the problems is trying to fix everything at once. Don't worry, I've been there too  . I know that you want him on a healthier diet right away and I don't blame you. Start over. Feed him what ever crap it was (if it's available). Now, once he's eating that again, then we will move forward. Right now, to ease the stress he's feeling he's sleeping, to ease the hunger in his belly he's sleeping...he did this before, that's how he survived when he was abandoned. He's scared, he's been dumped again. Don't take offence, I mean none. He doesn't know that you're the best ferrant in the world....he just knows that everything has changed.....again. In his little life he has been deserted, left to die, shuffled from one home to the next. This has occured in the first few months of his short little life. He trusts no one. His response is a survival response. Keep offering the raw, play with him, love him, tell him he's the best little fuzz in the world....it may sound weird, but its the energy he needs right now. You're using RR, keep it in his water. He's no longer at peak stress level so you can now just let him drink it. Don't take him anywhere for a few weeks, he associates being taken places with being dumped. Let him get used to his space, you and yours. Let him see permanence. What you're seeing is a ferret trying to cope, he's not trying to live. Good luck, keep us posted. Thank you for rescueing this little one. ciao |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 2:52:54 GMT -5
Step back? Not offended, just confused. What'd I do? I didn't change his kibble, and I didn't take it away, I know that's stupid to do (change it) completely, but I did mix in a little Orijen Cat (not what we feed our cats, they're raw, but in-laws do) so he's getting something better than Marshall's crap-in-a-bag (that's what he came with). I haven't mixed in too much at once. Not sure if I should grind up his kibble with the soup, he's still giving his ewwy face each time I feed it, but after a few minutes today there was a tiny breakthrough. He licked it from my fingers at two feedings today, then decided he didn't want anymore so we're not there just yet, but we're working on it. About half an hour after one feeding he went to his litter box and had some loose poop (I could hear it). He may be sleeping a lot but he is always enjoying petting and gives me kisses when I kiss the top of his head, so I'm not sure he's full-on depressed? Today he ran around and sniffed everything loudly - I'd never been able to hear a ferret sniff before.  We are always telling him what a good boy he is when he is fed his soup, and other times besides, so maybe I'm weird but I love talking to him in soothing tones and telling him he'll never have to be afraid again. I will continue with the Rescue Remedy, and if you think it's best I won't take him places with me for a few weeks, much as that breaks my heart. He travels so well and seems to enjoy being shown off.  ETA: Peter just told me he saw him eating the kibble mix yesterday, so he is still eating.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 10:03:01 GMT -5
If you mix some of his kibble like Sherry mentioned, it might make him for accepting on the soup. Once he realizes soup = good, you can start reducing the kibble amount. I know it's hard to keep him on such a nasty food, but it will probably be easier and less stressful for the time being.
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Post by Heather on Mar 10, 2011 15:06:32 GMT -5
It's ok, I thought you had changed him entirely to origen, that's why I suggested backstepping. So, he's eating his kibbles .... great. Now we know he's getting some nutrition and that's what's important. Keep up the "smear campaign" You're making progress  . The big breakthough is when he licked it off your finger, instead of you just putting it on his nose. You can add or not add kibbles that's entirely up to you. I've never had any success with the mushy kibble thing but it's not wrong if you do it. Many do. Switching a fuzz isn't a science it's all trial and error  No great mystery, often more than a bit of frustration. He's spending more time investigating .... that's progress too, always love the snuffle stage. Sounds like he's moving in nicely. Watch him closely, when you think he's ready to go outside and visit do so. If he starts sleeping too much on his outings, or curling up he's probably shutting out the world and the stress has become too much. If he's showing lots of curiosity and interest keep going. Again, there is no right or wrong, only what's good for "your" fuzz. Oh, you're not weird talking to your boy. I do it all the time. I even talk to Fun-Go (now that's weird ;D) It helps you both. He gets to know your voice and associates it with warm snuggles and kisses (and yucky soupies ;D) Keep up the good work and relax and enjoy your boy ciao |
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Post by Sherry on Mar 10, 2011 19:15:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I think we ALL do the talking thing. I talk to all of them, including to my deafies as well  ;D After all, our body language changes depending on what we are saying, so it does make a difference. Even if they can't actually "hear" us! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2011 23:53:17 GMT -5
If you mix some of his kibble like Sherry mentioned, it might make him for accepting on the soup. Once he realizes soup = good, you can start reducing the kibble amount. I know it's hard to keep him on such a nasty food, but it will probably be easier and less stressful for the time being. I did say above that I mixed in some pretty decent (best kibble out there, IMPO) with the cruddy kibble, so yeah. I didn't just remove it, I'm just hating that he has to eat any of the nasty stuff at all, but I'm not going to stress him out by taking it away or switching to a new food right away. With ferrets you HAVE to mix or risk tummy upset or refusal to eat. Personally I am not comfortable with the idea of making the kibble mushy or blending it with the raw soup. If Heather has managed to have success without doing that, that's what I would prefer. I really can only see that encouraging him to be pickier and our progress come to a standstill once I took the kibble out of the soup and making us backtrack more, but that's just me. That's also why I haven't mixed in any of my salmon oil/olive oil mixture with it. I don't want him to have the opportunity to be stubborn in the future, I guess. I just use that for nail-trimming. Anyway, I get that it's worked for some of you but I'm just judging based on his personal reaction to hand-feedings. Today he only willingly licked a couple of times, he's starting to get stubborn again but he was eating more of his regular food today so at least that's some relief. I'll keep on with the "smear campaign" as you so aptly put it! ;D It's starting to get a little frustrated how one minute he's licking it with interest, and the next acting as if I've never given him something so nasty before, despite this having gone on since Sunday. ;D Ah, ferrets. |
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Post by Sherry on Mar 10, 2011 23:55:24 GMT -5
Hey- you do whatever works for both you AND him . |
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Post by Heather on Mar 11, 2011 0:16:33 GMT -5
You're making progress. It's not going to appear to be much to begin with, I'm thinking that when he finally gets this, he will go for it. Yes, there are days when you're going to feel that you're making progress and then an hour later...nothing...in fact probably from the same bowl. It's the frustrating end of switching. Some just dive in and never look back, others are like my Yuri. We're still working on it  ;D but he's a good boy. ciao |
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No great mystery, often more than a bit of frustration. 
;D
;D but he's a good boy.