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Post by Heather on May 4, 2012 22:47:02 GMT -5
Name: Michelle HF Forum Username: holtzchick
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I first learned about natural diets for ferrets from forum.ferret.com. They had someone from Holistic Ferret posting there about it
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I am interested in fully switching them to a raw BARF diet.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
I am interested in switching my ferrets to a natural diet because they have more energy, less chance for diseases/illnesses, nicer fur, better smell and better smelling poop. Basically all the reasons someone would normally
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
I do understand that switching my ferrets will be a lengthy process and am 100% fully committed. I am starting work soon (p/t for now) but it will surely not get in the way since I am very dedicated to all my animals in home
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for?
I currently have 2 female ferrets. Pandora 6 months old Marshalls ferret, I believe she is slightly underweight and I have had her since she was 10 weeks of age. Pippa she is what I believe to be a Path Valley ferret, from what I know she is 1 year and 4 months old, I believe she is slightly overweight (ironic) and I have only had her for about 1 week.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I currently feed my ferrets stewing beef, pork heart, pork kidney, chicken liver, chicken gizzards, chicken drumsticks, duck feet, duck wings, turkey legs, wysong pheasant dream treats, chicken breast and beef liver purebites.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
I have started them on raw.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? I am very dedicated to switching my ferrets to raw. Pippa is very willing and open to the switch, Pandora is slightly picky and does not like chunks at all, I fear that she may just have a sensitive stomach.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? Every day.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). I will post pictures of them later today since I am not at home.
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Jackie) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. Also note there may have been some changes in the application and how you should post so please review these before proceeding. If you have any questions feel free to either ask your mentor or any of the admins. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 0:51:35 GMT -5
Hello Here's a little about me Name: Jackie HF User Name: Jackie Location: West Coast of Florida About Me: Hello! I'm Jackie I am 19 and a senior in college, working on my B.A. in Chemistry/Biology I am in the process of writing my senior thesis, which I am really nervous/excited/anxious to do! My goal in life is to become a neonatologist (sick baby doctor). After I graduate I am taking a year off to get myself together before I start med school (hopefully) in 2013. My favorite color is..... pink My favorite food is.... Pizza My favorite holiday is... My birthday [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .gif" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/.gif"].gif[/IMG] My favorite hobby is... Couponing. I am an avid couponer :-D I started to try to save some money, and now I am completely hooked! I like to listen to...all music. I love music from all genres, rap, rock, hip-hop, pop, country. I don't discriminate I became a mentor because... I am really passionate about feeding raw and have seen first hand the benefits it has. If I can personally help someone give their fuzzy a better diet, then I am more than happy About My Ferrets: I have three beautiful female ferrets. Pixie: Is my soul ferrets, my sidekick, my partner in crime. I got her at 8 weeks old and we've been inseparable since. She is 3 years old now. Pixie is super spoiled, and switching her to raw was the hardest. But, she eats whole chunks like a pro now and is as healthy as can be! She had a blockage scare when she was 1, but she thankfully passed on it her own. Pixie follows me everywhere, licking my toes, ankles and socks. I <3 her. Trixie: One day, Pixie had escaped. She had somehow gotten out of the house. I searched for her for all day and into the night. No luck. I made posters and prayed that she would be found alive and okay. I was so heartbroken I cannot even explain it. I thought she was gone forever. To help me overcome the grief I was feeling, my boyfriend brought me to the pet store to pick out a ferret. I didn't really want to even look at another ferret, but he told me that when we DO find Pixie, she needed a friend so she doesn't want to escape so much. So I picked out a beautiful little champagne girl, who I named Trixie. Pixie was found the next day and even since then, they've been the best of buddies. Trixie is now almost 3 and is spunky and hilarious. She is beautiful, fluffy, and such a character. She is extremely docile and enjoys being held and petted. Trixie was not the easiest switch, but definitely easier than Pixie Dixie: She is my latest addition. I saw her at the store and she was the most adorable thing ever with her dark little nose and endearing personality. She is CRAZY! She is about 1 year old and is just as insane as the first day I brought her home. She acts like she is on crack or something [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .gif" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/.gif"].gif[/IMG] She is constantly moving, moving, moving! She was the easiest to switch to raw and took to it instantly. She has no manners, climbs all over people and their face [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ .gif" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/.gif"].gif[/IMG] She is the instigator of the group. While Pixie would prefer to play with me and Trixie would prefer to stash socks and eggs, Dixie gets the party started and I love her for that. About My Natural Feeding Experience: I started feeding raw over 2 years ago. I first started with freeze dried raw. My girls took to it instantly. I saw SO much improvement in my two (Pixie and Trixie at the time) that I never looked back. After feeding that for approx. 6 months, I realized that it was killing my pocketbook. I decided I wanted to try to incorporate whole meats from the grocery store to cut costs. Pixie was very stubborn to accept chunks because she absolutely LOVES soup. But it seemed like one day she just started eating chunks, and we were switched! Type of mentor: Freeze-dried Raw, Commercial Raw, & Frankenprey Specialty: Younger fuzzies and stubborn fuzz butts
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 0:52:43 GMT -5
So I've been following your switching thread, but can you just summarize quickly where each fuzz is in the switch? What size pieces each will eat, etc?
I'm excited to help your fuzz get switched!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 10:16:31 GMT -5
Thank you Jackie! Awh your three sound amazing! I was very VERY skeptical about feeding raw but it was really the before and after pictures everyone had that got me. Raw fed ferrets just look MUCH healthier! As for my thread, they (mostly meaning Pandora) have been VERY stubborn and refused to eat anything that even resembled a chunk. I gave them both many soupies for about 2 weeks straight (if not more!). The other day, I noticed they were barely eating , I didn't know what to do since Pandora doesn't even like kibble and Pippa always had a healthy appetite. I thought what the heck, I'll cut them into chunks but if they don't eat this I don't know what I'm going to do.... I cut their next meal into tiny pinky fingernail size chunks and lo and behold they ate !! I also started giving them less food because I noticed I was wasting a lot of food. I started off skipping a meal, then in the morning 1 oz in each bowl, then if that was all gone, 1.5 oz in each bowl, that proved to be VERY successful since I let them eat together now. I will try going to 2 oz each today since they completely ate 3 oz each yesterday. My problem has really been getting them to take bone. I think they get intimidated by it and what not. Last night I took a duck wing and cut just the softest bones off and cut them into tiny chunks, surprisingly Pandora readily took to it (she even almost choked on a bone lol!) and learned that she needs to chew her food more thoroughly. Pippa is probably the most eager one for the switch since she was on low quality kibble all her life and since she is 1.5 years of age now, I find it odd but I'm happy with it. Pandora can be VERY stubborn even at 6 months! She likes something she will eat A LOT if she doesn't she can simply not eat it and sleep until I give her better! I think some people call this spoiled lol since I followed her around with a spoon with soupies! I find that for her to try anything I put into her bowl I need to sprinkle it with a fair amount of freezedried chicken breast. I think now it's more of a monkey see monkey do thing. Pippa will readily try anything I give her, and I think Pandora has noticed it won't kill her to take some as well. I just want to be able to feed them without sprinkling the freeze dried on top but I don't mind for now. When I started, I didn't like the idea of getting them used to one thing at a time, so I created regular menus and would just puree or grind every meal.. now as I said, I cut each meal into tiny fingernail size chunks. I have them eating Pork [tail, kidney, heart], Turkey [Leg (just meat), and I bought turkey necks which I plan on trying them for my first time tonight], Beef [Liver, Lung, Stewing chunks, Heart], Duck [Wings and Feet]. I have a lot of chicken in my freezer but as I said I noticed that they weren't eating much. I think that Pandora has a stomach upset from chicken. I notice when she eats it, she doesn't eat much of it and she didn't seem to be very active. Since a few days ago of giving them chunks, they act like REAL ferrets lol! I have decided that until they get established to raw, I would like to keep out the chicken and then once eating normally slip it back in and really see if they are intolerant to it or simply bored of it. I don't really know what the next step here is, I suppose I should buy other meats... do you have any suggestions for me? I have been on the look out for quail, goat, lamb, venison but all that stuff seems to be very expensive. I have looked in many Chinese Markets, but now would like to look in an Indian Market to compare what they have and varieties etc. I also refuse to feed rabbit since I have a bunny in my house, I feel like I would be betraying him to feed our ferrets rabbit. Again, thanks for the help, I am SUPER looking forward to this
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 14:29:57 GMT -5
I also started giving them less food because I noticed I was wasting a lot of food. I started off skipping a meal, then in the morning 1 oz in each bowl, then if that was all gone, 1.5 oz in each bowl, that proved to be VERY successful since I let them eat together now. I will try going to 2 oz each today since they completely ate 3 oz each yesterday. One thing I do to prevent waste is to feed 3 meals a day. I feed morning meal (usually small, they aren't very hungry for breakfast). I get home from school (about 5-8 hours later) and if the bowl is empty, I add another small helping. When I put them away for the night, I'd add another small meal. My problem has really been getting them to take bone. I think they get intimidated by it and what not. Last night I took a duck wing and cut just the softest bones off and cut them into tiny chunks, surprisingly Pandora readily took to it (she even almost choked on a bone lol!) and learned that she needs to chew her food more thoroughly. The best way I've found to get them interested in bone is to take a nice small bone (cornish game hen have very small bone) and smash it flat. Then I take scissors, and cut the meat into skinny pieces (maybe 1 in long, 2 cm wide). You can then cover it in something they like. Maybe oil, some soup, freeze dried etc. You can try two things. 1) Scruff and stuff method (read about it here: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=switch&action=display&thread=4340) 2)Hiding the pieces in their soup and see if they eat the pieces. I have them eating Pork [tail, kidney, heart] Do they eat the bone in the pork tail? For the kidney and heart, are they eating that in soup form or in small piece form? Beef [Liver, Lung, Stewing chunks, Heart] Same question: soup or small pieces? Same question: soup or small pieces? I bought turkey necks which I plan on trying them for my first time tonight] Word of warning for these: they are very bone dense. I have to pulverize these in my house. But my kids do love them I also refuse to feed rabbit since I have a bunny in my house, I feel like I would be betraying him to feed our ferrets rabbit. Understandable I would like to keep out the chicken and then once eating normally slip it back in and really see if they are intolerant to it or simply bored of it. Sounds like a plan. As for other stuff to try. My fave to get is cornish game hen. They are kinda pricey but my kids adore them. They make up about 40% of the bone for my kids. Chicken makes up another 40% bone in and turkey necks make up about 20%. My kids will eat all of the bones from both cornish game hen and chickens.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 14:58:21 GMT -5
Just to clarify, the scruff and stuff method does not work for me for Pandora since she just gags it up and spits it out as soon as I let her go, until then she will NOT under any circumstance swallow. As well, she will not eat anything in a soup that even slightly resembles a chunk (PICKY FUZZY!).... I think that I needed a mentor for her as opposed to Pippa she is very open to eating everything I give her. Pandora is the young and stubborn one! Hmm.. good call with feeding them 3 times a day! Sounds like a great idea! As of right now, they are eating everything in their diet including organs and muscle meats cubed in tiny pieces... they didn't get a chance to eat the bone yet as I just cut off the meat for them, but I know for a fact if I put the bone through the grinder it will come out in manageable chunks for them. They did eat the rest of what was left of the duck wing (that I put into the fridge last night) for breakfast and I actually managed to cut the bone into 1cm chunks and lo and behold they ate it! Again, I had to cover it in freeze dried chicken breast but it worked As for the turkey neck, I tried to cut it apart so that I could put it into the grinder to crush the bone but couldn't so I will go to my mothers tonight and use her tenderizer to do it for me and freeze already crushed necks. I will update you as to how it goes with the bones, until I get them eating quite a bit of bone, I am still supplementing all with bone meal powder. You mention cornish game hen which I have seen (they are slightly expensive) but are those in any way related to a chicken? I don't mind giving them a tiny bit of chicken like a morsel of freeze dried dusted on their food but I really don't want to risk messing up their appetites.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 21:51:43 GMT -5
Just to clarify, the scruff and stuff method does not work for me for Pandora since she just gags it up and spits it out as soon as I let her go, until then she will NOT under any circumstance swallow. As well, she will not eat anything in a soup that even slightly resembles a chunk (PICKY FUZZY!).... I think that I needed a mentor for her as opposed to Pippa she is very open to eating everything I give her. Pandora is the young and stubborn one! Hmm, she sounds like my Pixie. But she is eating the small pieces you're feeding, right? So just continue with that, and we will just gradually work her up to large pieces. I find my kids prefer skinny pieces vs. square pieces (eating to fit in mouth - I notice my kids chew with one side of their teeth instead of taking the whole piece in their mouth). You could also try Pippa with some larger pieces and see if the competition helps encourage Pandora to eat bone in pieces. You mention cornish game hen which I have seen (they are slightly expensive) but are those in any way related to a chicken? I don't mind giving them a tiny bit of chicken like a morsel of freeze dried dusted on their food but I really don't want to risk messing up their appetites. [/noubbc] [/quote] It is a chicken hybrid, but as far as ferret diets go, we've always considered it a separate protein source. If she is doing fine with duck and turkey (which are both poultry) I would think she'd be okay with the cornish game hen (CGH). My kids absolutely adore the stuff - especially the skin! As for the turkey neck, I tried to cut it apart so that I could put it into the grinder to crush the bone but couldn't so I will go to my mothers tonight and use her tenderizer to do it for me and freeze already crushed necks. I will update you as to how it goes with the bones, until I get them eating quite a bit of bone, I am still supplementing all with bone meal powder. Yeah, turkey necks are so hard. Other types of necks are better (duck, CGH, chicken) and seem to have more marrow inside them (which is really yummy and nutritious). They did eat the rest of what was left of the duck wing (that I put into the fridge last night) for breakfast and I actually managed to cut the bone into 1cm chunks and lo and behold they ate it! Again, I had to cover it in freeze dried chicken breast but it worked That's wonderful! Awesome progress I would be tempted to keep using the freeze dried until they are on large pieces, and then wean them off the freeze dried once they are used to eating whole pieces. Your kids are doing awesome!
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 22:58:14 GMT -5
Thanks I have some good news and some bad news, I will start with the bad news and work up to the good. So bad news is, I had the turkey necks in my fridge from when I bought them since I couldn't cut into the bone and figured by the time I got a tenderizer and smashed the bones, they would still be good. It was the most horrific smell my nose had ever endured !! :/ Good news is, after that incident, I didn't have anything else to feed them for tonight since I am at my mothers and I went to the grocery store, instead picked them up turkey wings AND I ended up buying my own meat tenderizer (aka, goodbye dumb cutting, hello crushed bones ) I ended up giving Pandora and Pippa all of the turkey wing including the bone. Most of the bone was fairly crushed up except for the end joints. Pippa grabbed it right away and started going to town on it, which she eventually gave up, but the good news is that she tried ... Pandora had a lot of the slivers of bone and I found that she also worked on crushing the bone. You're completely right! They do typically chew with one side of their mouth, and I think they would rather prefer a skinny piece rather than a cube! See this is why you're an awesome mentor because it probably would've taken me ages to figure out. Hoping the best for tomorrows breakfast, Pork Liver... YUM. They both ate 4 oz each today!!!! Thats unbelievable! Which means that they are progressing... Its funny how after you post something, they make you sound like you are exaggerating! I swear, this seems almost effortless.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 23:22:08 GMT -5
So bad news is, I had the turkey necks in my fridge from when I bought them since I couldn't cut into the bone and figured by the time I got a tenderizer and smashed the bones, they would still be good. It was the most horrific smell my nose had ever endured !! :/ Ohh noo! Spoiled meat is a really gross smell Good news is, after that incident, I didn't have anything else to feed them for tonight since I am at my mothers and I went to the grocery store, instead picked them up turkey wings AND I ended up buying my own meat tenderizer (aka, goodbye dumb cutting, hello crushed bones ) [/qu [/noubbc]ote] Another handy tool you might look into is a Ulu knife. Hurricanekatt is in Alaska and has access to them for cheap. I have one and I use it all the time. I ended up giving Pandora and Pippa all of the turkey wing including the bone. Most of the bone was fairly crushed up except for the end joints. Pippa grabbed it right away and started going to town on it, which she eventually gave up, but the good news is that she tried ... Pandora had a lot of the slivers of bone and I found that she also worked on crushing the bone. Wooo!! That's wonderful! Their jaws will take a little to build up enough jaw strength to chow through the bones, but this means they are recognizing it as food!! See this is why you're an awesome mentor because it probably would've taken me ages to figure out. Aw, thank you! Hoping the best for tomorrows breakfast, Pork Liver... YUM. I hope it all goes well! Organ meats have such a strange texture - it can put a lot of ferrets off. They both ate 4 oz each today!!!! Thats unbelievable! Which means that they are progressing... Woo! Now they will enter the *eat you out of house and home* stage. Which will hopefully not last too long ;D [/img][/qu[/noubbc]ote] It does get easier, and luckily you have one non-picky one, which always seems to help the switch and get the others on the bandwagon.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 5:31:57 GMT -5
Yes, I truly believe they are starting the "Eat Me Out of House and Home" stage lol!! They both ate 4 full oz of meat yesterday! thats insane! I'm embracing it though. They even ate that big piece of bone it was actually very large, it was the joint I was not able to crush with tons of bone marrow inside! Regarding the Ulu knife, my boyfriend is a chef so I will ask him if he has one of those anywhere or I'm sure he will tell me what its purpose is etc. I feel like he should be helping me more with this since HE is the expert here!!! That means today they will get quite the foodies, its a good thing I bought lots of meat Now regarding their poops, they should still be larger/seedy since their bodies are new to all the nutrients at this point right?
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 14:06:08 GMT -5
Yes you will still see some odd stools as their bodies learn to metabolize the high proteins and fats. You can add a small amount of canned pumpkin (1/2 tsp daily) which can help their digestion track. This replaces the fiber normally found in whole prey (fur, nails, etc).
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 22:39:54 GMT -5
Today was a truly horrible day for myself and my fuzzies! I think we even took a step backward in the terms of raw. I gave them their liver this morning, and would not eat it so I blended the liver. They ate 2 oz for the both of them, I don't think Pandora ate any at all!! I don't know how to get them to eat the liver, I even put a fair amount of Ferretone in it but she still didn't take! THEN Tonight I gave them both cut up duck feet.... Lets just say, Pippa took to it, and Pandora was caching it... I don't know if she's just not feeling well but she was gagging really badly when she took it in her mouth and when she put it down. These are again tiny finger nail chunks. I am still at my mothers (hence the AWFUL day) and I will see what I can pick up for them at the grocery store tomorrow since I don't know when I will be home... likely Tuesday evening. :/
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 1:01:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear today didn't go so well I gave them their liver this morning, and would not eat it so I blended the liver Don't feel discouraged - organ meats are very strongly flavored and take some getting used to. I would mix it with something mild flavored - like turkey or maybe plain pork. I would add some ferretone too if they like it. THEN Tonight I gave them both cut up duck feet.... Lets just say, Pippa took to it, and Pandora was caching it... I don't know if she's just not feeling well but she was gagging really badly when she took it in her mouth and when she put it down. When you say caching it, do you mean she was hoarding? If so, that's a good sign. It means she deems it as stash worthy. She might just not be used to the texture. Did she eat any of it? She might have just been saving it for later.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 13:58:45 GMT -5
Yes, they are my little hoarders!! She must have eaten some because when they both pooped today, they had chunks of bone in their poop and they were quite solid, I would say perfect poops. This morning I fed them ground Pork since it was the only thing I had access to, again, I didn't think I'd be staying here that long. Pippa obviously dug right in but Pandora again, stashed it but failed to eat any of it :/ I tried to play with them vigorously to tire her out and get her hungry but it didn't work.
She seems like she wants to eat, she keeps walking up to the bowl but looks unimpressed or stashes whats in it. I will give them turkey wing again tonight (I know, I wish I had all my meats from home right now) and see how she reacts. Since I gave them a full 4 oz of cut up duck feet last night, they ate until their little hearts were content but now they are not hungry at all!! Perhaps I should just continue with 3 oz a day and do that.
I seemed to be getting the best results when I kept them a bit hungry since they would eat when I gave them their food and then it lasted throughout the day until just a few hours before their feeding time and they would eat again. Maybe little increments did work the best since they seemed to be eating properly. Now I don't really see them eat much. hmmmm... should I try giving them 1.5 oz per fuzz per meal again instead? or should I say can I?
Pandora was making such good progress ! :/
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 22:51:20 GMT -5
Offering smaller meals may help keep her appetite going while your introducing foods. But know that some days, ferrets will skip meals naturally. I think Bob Church actually advocates skipping meals occasionally (your fuzz are young so I'm not concerned with insulinoma, but just be aware that skipping meals isn't advised for older fuzz who could have hidden illnesses.) If she's pooping, she's eating. She may prefer to eat at a different time, or wants to let it "mature" a little more
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