Post by Sherry on Jan 16, 2011 19:09:16 GMT -5
Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Thread Started on Sept 12, 2010, 10:44am »
OK,
It's been long enough so I can say that I'm definitely seeing GREAT results with the Deslorelin (Suprelorin implants)
This thread will be used to monitor my brats' progress. I'll first provide a background on my kids and their medical history. I'll then be posting the info regarding teir progress on the deslorelin implants.
Tomichi: 5.5 years old. Late alter:
Age 1: spayed 2 weeks into her first heat (10.5 months old)
Age 2: Preventive subcutaneous lupron injection (4-month depot). Issue: swelling - the depot pooled under the skin in the left shoulder.
Age 3: No preventive lupron injection given due to pooling of depot at age 2. Transient rat tail in the fall.
Age 4: VERY MINOR behavioral changes: SLIGHT increase in the frequency of grooming of siblings. Adrenal panel in taken in January. VERY minor elevation in estradiol. Ultraound looked 100% normal. 4-month lupron injection given IM (in the hip muscle), with a repeat injection after 3 months.
Repeated the adrenal panel 5 weeks after the second injection. All parameters within normal range.
Age 5: Repeated adrenal panel at the beginning of the year. Estradiol elevated again. Behavioral symptom increased in frequency and intensity. . Lupron injection repeated. No noticeable benefit from the Lupron. The depot caused a big knot in the muscle. Repeated the lupron injection after 1 month. Same Response: No noticeable benefit from the Lupron. The depot caused a big knot in the muscle. Surgery (Mid July): left gland removed: normal size but cystic. No cancer. No change in behavior 6 weeks after surgery. Repeated Lupron injection. No effect on behavior, but another big knot in the muscle. 2 weeks after the injection, tail fur thinned a bit with most fur lost at the top 1.5 inched at the base of the tail. Suprelorin implants arrived and given on August 17.
Today is September 12.
The following reflects all 4 brats with their Suprelorin implants. P
All 4 are much calmer. They sleep more and are not constantly pounding the crap out of each other. The calm behaviors was evident almost immediately. I didn't want to speak too soon since I wanted to make sure this was not my imagination. The calmness has continued to set in over time. Tonto is as lazy as a ferret could possibly be. But if you drag out the towel for the "sled game", he's alll over it, and he can still haul that fat butt of his up the stairs with extreme enthusiasm at a good rate of speed without even a stumble.
I'm still seeing some extra licking/grooming behavior - particularly from the girls. Meach is hanging on to this tendency more so than the others.However, the tendency toward this behavior is MUCH less frequent and almost half-hearted. I'll be curious to see if this continues to taper off over time. I've heard that the Suprelorin can take a long time (6-8 weeks) to start seeing change, and it can continue to become more effective thereafter.
Fur regrowth: Meach's tail is full/thick. The tail fur has not grown to full length yet, but it is THICK. The Belly fur from the adrenal surgey is coming in "patchy"... This has always seemed to be more of a seasonal regrowth delay than an adrenal thing because there has always been a thick covering of short regrowth from the surgery where adrenal issues result in complete baldness, Meach needs to do her winter coat change.
Itching is down a LOT in all 4 brats. All 4 were itchy once I stopped the reishi.
My brats were ready to begin shedding before the deslorelin...they were just starting to lose a little fur in "normal"/slow shed mode. The Des. seems to have interrupted their shedding. All 4 seem to be delaying their season shed right now. I'll be curious to see when/if they shed for the winter.
I'm VERY pleased with the results I'm seeing. Fingers crossed....let's hope this continues!!!
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #1 on Sept 13, 2010, 3:40pm »
« Thread Started on Sept 12, 2010, 10:44am »
OK,
It's been long enough so I can say that I'm definitely seeing GREAT results with the Deslorelin (Suprelorin implants)
This thread will be used to monitor my brats' progress. I'll first provide a background on my kids and their medical history. I'll then be posting the info regarding teir progress on the deslorelin implants.
Tomichi: 5.5 years old. Late alter:
Age 1: spayed 2 weeks into her first heat (10.5 months old)
Age 2: Preventive subcutaneous lupron injection (4-month depot). Issue: swelling - the depot pooled under the skin in the left shoulder.
Age 3: No preventive lupron injection given due to pooling of depot at age 2. Transient rat tail in the fall.
Age 4: VERY MINOR behavioral changes: SLIGHT increase in the frequency of grooming of siblings. Adrenal panel in taken in January. VERY minor elevation in estradiol. Ultraound looked 100% normal. 4-month lupron injection given IM (in the hip muscle), with a repeat injection after 3 months.
Repeated the adrenal panel 5 weeks after the second injection. All parameters within normal range.
Age 5: Repeated adrenal panel at the beginning of the year. Estradiol elevated again. Behavioral symptom increased in frequency and intensity. . Lupron injection repeated. No noticeable benefit from the Lupron. The depot caused a big knot in the muscle. Repeated the lupron injection after 1 month. Same Response: No noticeable benefit from the Lupron. The depot caused a big knot in the muscle. Surgery (Mid July): left gland removed: normal size but cystic. No cancer. No change in behavior 6 weeks after surgery. Repeated Lupron injection. No effect on behavior, but another big knot in the muscle. 2 weeks after the injection, tail fur thinned a bit with most fur lost at the top 1.5 inched at the base of the tail. Suprelorin implants arrived and given on August 17.
Today is September 12.
The following reflects all 4 brats with their Suprelorin implants. P
All 4 are much calmer. They sleep more and are not constantly pounding the crap out of each other. The calm behaviors was evident almost immediately. I didn't want to speak too soon since I wanted to make sure this was not my imagination. The calmness has continued to set in over time. Tonto is as lazy as a ferret could possibly be. But if you drag out the towel for the "sled game", he's alll over it, and he can still haul that fat butt of his up the stairs with extreme enthusiasm at a good rate of speed without even a stumble.
I'm still seeing some extra licking/grooming behavior - particularly from the girls. Meach is hanging on to this tendency more so than the others.However, the tendency toward this behavior is MUCH less frequent and almost half-hearted. I'll be curious to see if this continues to taper off over time. I've heard that the Suprelorin can take a long time (6-8 weeks) to start seeing change, and it can continue to become more effective thereafter.
Fur regrowth: Meach's tail is full/thick. The tail fur has not grown to full length yet, but it is THICK. The Belly fur from the adrenal surgey is coming in "patchy"... This has always seemed to be more of a seasonal regrowth delay than an adrenal thing because there has always been a thick covering of short regrowth from the surgery where adrenal issues result in complete baldness, Meach needs to do her winter coat change.
Itching is down a LOT in all 4 brats. All 4 were itchy once I stopped the reishi.
My brats were ready to begin shedding before the deslorelin...they were just starting to lose a little fur in "normal"/slow shed mode. The Des. seems to have interrupted their shedding. All 4 seem to be delaying their season shed right now. I'll be curious to see when/if they shed for the winter.
I'm VERY pleased with the results I'm seeing. Fingers crossed....let's hope this continues!!!
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #1 on Sept 13, 2010, 3:40pm »
[Modify] [Delete]
Where do you get this implant? I've got one adrenal on Lupron now and another who is losing hair and I'm sure is as well, I haven't had a chance to call my vet (out of town) because I need to order more shots but I'd like something more long lasting. How much do you pay per implant?
AnimalFarm2006
HF Forum Junior Member
*******
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #2 on Sept 18, 2010, 8:16am »
I got the implant thanks to recomendations here and Dingo's 100% looking and feeling better. He not only gained 5 lbs (not really but he is fat), but all his fur has come back in full bloom.
Not sure what it really does but I love it for bringing my dingo back.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #3 on Sept 20, 2010, 8:45pm »
September 20.
All 4 brats have picked up a bitmore energy. The implants seemed to make them sleep a bitmore than usual the first month. Energy levels are more normal, and the adrenal symptoms are NOT flaring back up with the return of the energy level.
ALSO, here is one of with things both my vet and I think are adrenal symptom that you don't generally hear about...All 4 kids have had their nipples shrink down. (Boys too)
Maast cell activity has decreased (I stopped the Reishi, which helps with itching/mast cell activity, in January so I ould better evaluate the effect of the des.
There is NO swelling/issues with the implant site. I can clearly feel the implant (about the size of a grain of rice). There is No swelling /irritation around the implant. My brats are tolerating this extremely well.
ferretfreke
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #4 on Sept 21, 2010, 8:22pm »
Thanks for this info. I'm getting one for my boy tomorrow. He has become resistant to the melatonin and the lupron so I'm really crossing my fingers that this will help him. His main signs are thin coat, and splenomegaly (which could be due to something else entirely, but it showed up when the adrenal disease did). We'll have to compare results.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #5 on Oct 9, 2010, 9:25am »
How old is your ferret that has spenomegaly?
How heavy is this boy?
Tonto (my couch potato cuddler) gets FAT in the winter if I'm not careful. He always has. Last winter (Feb?) he seemed a teensy bit slower for a couple of days. His speen may have been a little bigger than normal since I could identify it as his spleen (I usually cann't identify it for sure.) ANyway, I had is blood work checked. (CBC and chem panel). His blood sugar was on the high side of normal - same with his insulin. Yes, I said high.
So what I did was this, I reduced his food intake, increased his exercise level (started running him up the stairs a coule of times daily, and I added a little extra liver to the diet a couple of times per week. The liver has chromium, which helps with insulin utilivzation/metabolic function. His spleen went down completely, and and he's more active this year than last for this time of year. Blood work fas returned to normal. The only thing I can conclude is that he was overweight and leaning toward becoming diabetic. (Tonto is now over 5.5 and doing extremely well since he's lost the extra weight. I keep an eye on his how much he eats and will hand feed him (lots of small bites, so overall less volume coupled with more exercise)
I really have have no clue if his issue was weight related, a virus, bacteria in the gut, etc. I have no idea if the weight loss/exercise/extra liver had anything to do with the spleen and/or the odd blood work, but Tonto has been testd everal times since, and he's back to normal. He still pounds the snot out of his "baby brother" who's quite a bit bigger than he is.
-jennifer
ferretfreke
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #6 on Oct 9, 2010, 1:33pm »
BillyBob is 6 years old. He weighs 3 1/2 lbs. He is still in his summer weight. In the winter he weighs just under 4 lbs. He is a RC with a big frame. He carries a little extra weight, but he definitely has an enlarged spleen. It has gotten even bigger since becoming resistant to lupron, which has been concerning to me. My vet will not do splenectomys unless ABSOLUTELY necessary as it can make them anemic. And he doesn't feel it's necessary at this point. I've done a full CBC/profile on him twice a year for the last couple years and the results have been normal.
What I've noticed so far since implanting him is he seems extra tired. It could be the changing seasons, but I don't think so. The others are sleeping a bit more, but quite a bit less than him. He is my oldest of the group, but usually acts the youngest. He also had some new hair growth coming in when I implanted him and it seemed to stop coming in. So he has these patches of hair and is still shedding out his old coat. I hate when his coat looks all crappy. I'm sure I just have to be patient and his coat will come in when the implant really starts working for him.
I'm curious, how were yours implanted? The implant comes with a large needle for placing them, but some of the experts recommend doing it surgically by cutting a little slit under the skin and then placing the implant in to make the area more vascular improving how the drug is absorbed. I just used the needle on Billy. I hate putting him under unnecessary anesthesia so I just decided to see if the needle would work too.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #7 on Oct 9, 2010, 4:33pm »
Yes, my brats were tired initially, but they've since returned to normal. They are not as hyper as they were - tbut this hyper energy was part of the adrenal behavior in my kids.
Yes, it disrupted the shed cycle, and my brats now have a partial shed with that end-of-summer crappy coat.
I'm hoping they'll start shedding soon.
colloidal silver can help shrink spleens. So far, none of my 4 have had enlarged spleens - and I have no clue why because most ferrets seem to have enlrged spleens by the time they reach 5.5.
-jennifer
ferretfreke
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #8 on Oct 9, 2010, 4:53pm »
So what is colloidal silver?
Zoshi
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #9 on Oct 9, 2010, 5:54pm »
Just a question about the Deslorelin implants vs. Lupron:
Tikki is suspected for adrenal - she has a slightly enlarged vulva, her fur, while very good, is sparse (especially around her tail). I'm taking her in next week for an overall evaluation (she's also suspected for insulinoma) and I wanted to talk to my vet about what I can do for the Adrenal.
I'm thinking my vet is going to reccommend doing a Lupron shot at first, to see if it has any effect. From what I've been hearing about the Deslorelin, if Adrenal is what Tikki has, then I'd be willing to get her that instead of having to do monthly Lupron shots. It's definitely going to be something I bring up at the vets, but I... guess I wanted some input? Deslorelin really is sounding like an amazing thing. :3
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #10 on Oct 9, 2010, 6:47pm »
Where do you get this implant? I've got one adrenal on Lupron now and another who is losing hair and I'm sure is as well, I haven't had a chance to call my vet (out of town) because I need to order more shots but I'd like something more long lasting. How much do you pay per implant?
AnimalFarm2006
HF Forum Junior Member
*******
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #2 on Sept 18, 2010, 8:16am »
I got the implant thanks to recomendations here and Dingo's 100% looking and feeling better. He not only gained 5 lbs (not really but he is fat), but all his fur has come back in full bloom.
Not sure what it really does but I love it for bringing my dingo back.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #3 on Sept 20, 2010, 8:45pm »
September 20.
All 4 brats have picked up a bitmore energy. The implants seemed to make them sleep a bitmore than usual the first month. Energy levels are more normal, and the adrenal symptoms are NOT flaring back up with the return of the energy level.
ALSO, here is one of with things both my vet and I think are adrenal symptom that you don't generally hear about...All 4 kids have had their nipples shrink down. (Boys too)
Maast cell activity has decreased (I stopped the Reishi, which helps with itching/mast cell activity, in January so I ould better evaluate the effect of the des.
There is NO swelling/issues with the implant site. I can clearly feel the implant (about the size of a grain of rice). There is No swelling /irritation around the implant. My brats are tolerating this extremely well.
ferretfreke
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #4 on Sept 21, 2010, 8:22pm »
Thanks for this info. I'm getting one for my boy tomorrow. He has become resistant to the melatonin and the lupron so I'm really crossing my fingers that this will help him. His main signs are thin coat, and splenomegaly (which could be due to something else entirely, but it showed up when the adrenal disease did). We'll have to compare results.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #5 on Oct 9, 2010, 9:25am »
How old is your ferret that has spenomegaly?
How heavy is this boy?
Tonto (my couch potato cuddler) gets FAT in the winter if I'm not careful. He always has. Last winter (Feb?) he seemed a teensy bit slower for a couple of days. His speen may have been a little bigger than normal since I could identify it as his spleen (I usually cann't identify it for sure.) ANyway, I had is blood work checked. (CBC and chem panel). His blood sugar was on the high side of normal - same with his insulin. Yes, I said high.
So what I did was this, I reduced his food intake, increased his exercise level (started running him up the stairs a coule of times daily, and I added a little extra liver to the diet a couple of times per week. The liver has chromium, which helps with insulin utilivzation/metabolic function. His spleen went down completely, and and he's more active this year than last for this time of year. Blood work fas returned to normal. The only thing I can conclude is that he was overweight and leaning toward becoming diabetic. (Tonto is now over 5.5 and doing extremely well since he's lost the extra weight. I keep an eye on his how much he eats and will hand feed him (lots of small bites, so overall less volume coupled with more exercise)
I really have have no clue if his issue was weight related, a virus, bacteria in the gut, etc. I have no idea if the weight loss/exercise/extra liver had anything to do with the spleen and/or the odd blood work, but Tonto has been testd everal times since, and he's back to normal. He still pounds the snot out of his "baby brother" who's quite a bit bigger than he is.
-jennifer
ferretfreke
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #6 on Oct 9, 2010, 1:33pm »
BillyBob is 6 years old. He weighs 3 1/2 lbs. He is still in his summer weight. In the winter he weighs just under 4 lbs. He is a RC with a big frame. He carries a little extra weight, but he definitely has an enlarged spleen. It has gotten even bigger since becoming resistant to lupron, which has been concerning to me. My vet will not do splenectomys unless ABSOLUTELY necessary as it can make them anemic. And he doesn't feel it's necessary at this point. I've done a full CBC/profile on him twice a year for the last couple years and the results have been normal.
What I've noticed so far since implanting him is he seems extra tired. It could be the changing seasons, but I don't think so. The others are sleeping a bit more, but quite a bit less than him. He is my oldest of the group, but usually acts the youngest. He also had some new hair growth coming in when I implanted him and it seemed to stop coming in. So he has these patches of hair and is still shedding out his old coat. I hate when his coat looks all crappy. I'm sure I just have to be patient and his coat will come in when the implant really starts working for him.
I'm curious, how were yours implanted? The implant comes with a large needle for placing them, but some of the experts recommend doing it surgically by cutting a little slit under the skin and then placing the implant in to make the area more vascular improving how the drug is absorbed. I just used the needle on Billy. I hate putting him under unnecessary anesthesia so I just decided to see if the needle would work too.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #7 on Oct 9, 2010, 4:33pm »
Yes, my brats were tired initially, but they've since returned to normal. They are not as hyper as they were - tbut this hyper energy was part of the adrenal behavior in my kids.
Yes, it disrupted the shed cycle, and my brats now have a partial shed with that end-of-summer crappy coat.
I'm hoping they'll start shedding soon.
colloidal silver can help shrink spleens. So far, none of my 4 have had enlarged spleens - and I have no clue why because most ferrets seem to have enlrged spleens by the time they reach 5.5.
-jennifer
ferretfreke
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #8 on Oct 9, 2010, 4:53pm »
So what is colloidal silver?
Zoshi
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #9 on Oct 9, 2010, 5:54pm »
Just a question about the Deslorelin implants vs. Lupron:
Tikki is suspected for adrenal - she has a slightly enlarged vulva, her fur, while very good, is sparse (especially around her tail). I'm taking her in next week for an overall evaluation (she's also suspected for insulinoma) and I wanted to talk to my vet about what I can do for the Adrenal.
I'm thinking my vet is going to reccommend doing a Lupron shot at first, to see if it has any effect. From what I've been hearing about the Deslorelin, if Adrenal is what Tikki has, then I'd be willing to get her that instead of having to do monthly Lupron shots. It's definitely going to be something I bring up at the vets, but I... guess I wanted some input? Deslorelin really is sounding like an amazing thing. :3
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #10 on Oct 9, 2010, 6:47pm »
[Modify] [Delete]
I'd recommend the Deslorelin....the monthly lupron shots are very expensive. I did the 4-month Lupron depot shots because I could not afford the monthly lupron shots, which are more effective than the 4-month lupron depot.
Plus, my vet never carries the 1-month shot beause if you give the one-month shot, it NEEDS to be followedby 2 0r 3 one-month shots. Giving a one-month shot and not following up with more shots can result in a hormonal surge when the firstshot wears off. This can be worse than no shot at all.
I am having better luck with the Deslorelin. I tried the "preventive" annual lupron shot for a number of years. I won't do that again. It's impossible to know WHEN to give the preventive lupron in late winter/early pring ( it may be latitude-dependent). My kids had trouble with the depot not dispersing and knotting up in their muscles or under the skin. In the end, they have adrenl issues, and the lupron no longer works on them
.
I'm just praying that the deslorelin keeps working.
I don't know how much of this thread you've read, but I had Tomichi's adrenal surgery done - one gland removed - cystic only - no cancer. The other gland looked perfect front and back. Many speculate that lupron/deslorelin stop working only with advanced disease/cancer. This does not appear to be true based upon my experience. Tomichi's disease is EARLY and she does not respond to lupron.
jennifer
Zoshi
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #11 on Oct 9, 2010, 7:04pm »
I'd recommend the Deslorelin....the monthly lupron shots are very expensive. I did the 4-month Lupron depot shots because I could not afford the monthly lupron shots, which are more effective than the 4-month lupron depot.
Plus, my vet never carries the 1-month shot beause if you give the one-month shot, it NEEDS to be followedby 2 0r 3 one-month shots. Giving a one-month shot and not following up with more shots can result in a hormonal surge when the firstshot wears off. This can be worse than no shot at all.
I am having better luck with the Deslorelin. I tried the "preventive" annual lupron shot for a number of years. I won't do that again. It's impossible to know WHEN to give the preventive lupron in late winter/early pring ( it may be latitude-dependent). My kids had trouble with the depot not dispersing and knotting up in their muscles or under the skin. In the end, they have adrenl issues, and the lupron no longer works on them
.I'm just praying that the deslorelin keeps working.
I don't know how much of this thread you've read, but I had Tomichi's adrenal surgery done - one gland removed - cystic only - no cancer. The other gland looked perfect front and back. Many speculate that lupron/deslorelin stop working only with advanced disease/cancer. This does not appear to be true based upon my experience. Tomichi's disease is EARLY and she does not respond to lupron.
jennifer
Zoshi
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #11 on Oct 9, 2010, 7:04pm »
[Modify] [Delete]
Thank you very much for the info! I'll definitely be bringing that up to my vet when I go in with Tikki.
Yeah, I read about Tomichi and thought that was interesting. I'd always heard that the Lupron doesn't stop being effecting until quite some time has gone by with the ferret on it, so I was a bit shocked by that. Maybe some ferrets just have a bigger resistance to lupron naturally? It's just so strange.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #12 on Oct 9, 2010, 8:37pm »
My vet said that there's some speculation (at least with some fert vets) that ferrets might develop immunity to some od these drugs.
I remember hearing that Des. is supposed to be a "more natural" compound than lupron. But this may be theory.
A long time ago when I had my first two ferts (I think of them EVERY DAY of my life , I did the lupron thing with one of them. Both boys ended up with bilateral adrenalectomies. My one boy started getting prostate issues. We used the lupron a several times. It was very effective helping him with prostate. But he was "late stage adrenal." ...so it's possible that lupron works to a limited degree on ferrets - but it may be effective only when combating the worst situations. Since my kids are early adrenal with subtle signs, perhaps the lupron won't affect them it may not be able to eliminate all hormone production (i.e, they are not really immune to lupron, but lupron can't inhibit all signals from the brain, so they still get early symptoms.)
I don't know if what I wrote makes sense - bu I know what I'm trying to say 
-jennifer
ferretfreke
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #13 on Oct 28, 2010, 8:16pm »
So BillyBob has a nice new coat coming in!!! He's back to his normal self as far as his activity level goes too! Getting into all kinds of trouble again
I'm very glad you started this thread and I had a heads up on the tiredness. I would have really worried otherwise. It lasted about 2 weeks and then he kept getting more and more active again. So thanks!
jacksmomma
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #14 on Oct 29, 2010, 5:32am »
Now that Jack is temporarily recovered from his bladder stones, I've been thinking/ researching adrenal ALOT ( i know its going to hit at some point). There are several vets who recommend using the Des implant as a preventative, even implanting right along with altering. Has anyone known any ferrets with such treatment? I've been chatting with my vet about doing it (especially on baby brady) and she wants to read a bit more, but does agree that stopping that first surge of GnRH would be the best way to treat (prevent) early adrenal.
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report - WOW!!!
« Reply #15 on Nov 9, 2010, 1:04pm »
OK,
I have some SIGNIFICANT news to report regarding the Suprelorin implants.
Background: Kachina is a late alter sprite over 5.5 years old. She was confirmed (UT panel) as mildly adrenal about a year ago. She had been given the 3-month lupron shots preventively and as a treament for adrenal as well. The Lupron did not seem to help - the depot was causing large lumps under the skin, so my vet and I question whether or not the med. was being delivered by the depot. Kachina got her first Suprelorin implant in june or july (I'd have to look it up). My thread has not been very inspirational until NOW.......
Kachina just had her left adrenal gland removed last week. The purpose of doing this was to remove diseased tissue and hopefully the Deslorelin will help to keep her remaining gland healthy. Her left gland was enlarged with discoloration. Her right gland looked perfect front and back. She breezed through the surgery and is back in full swing (battling with her siblings) in less than a week.
Here's where it gets interesting....My vet just called with the pathology report - both he and the pathologists are both amazed by the findings (my vet was doing the Dance of Joy over the phone - LOL!! ) The diseased gland showed hyperplasia only (no displasia or cancer), just overgroth of tissue on normal cell structure. Now here's the part that gets SUPER INTERESTING.
The area of dieased tissue showed fibrosis.....They've never seen this at the lab before, and my vet has never seen or heard of this before.....Both the lab staff and my vet are reporting that the fibrosis is a result of HEALING - kind of like scar tissue. They believ that the Des. has supressed the hormonal function enough for the gland to start healing itself.
Prior to this, there has been a general feeling that once hyperplasia starts, disease will progress until cancer evntually develops if the ferret lives long enough.
SO....this is yet another indication that Deslorelin may work to hormone production to help prevent and/or help heal adrenal disease - at least in early stage disease.
-jennifer
WTFerret
Going Natural
**
« Reply #17 on Nov 9, 2010, 1:28pm
Any way you could add pictures of their progress ?
Heather
Administrator
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #18 on Nov 9, 2010, 2:31pm »
That is really fantastic, Jennifer. Great news. Now, you started your little ones on this at a very early stage of their adrenal and they're younger. What about information on the use of deslorin on older or more advance stages of adrenal? Is there any information on this?
ciao
jacksmomma
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #19 on Nov 9, 2010, 2:43pm »
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob....=/sdarticle.pdf
It's a little old, but still interesting...
www.vri.cz/docs/vetmed/54-2-89.pdf
acodlin
Going Natural
**
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #20 on Nov 9, 2010, 7:19pm »
So do you think maybe one of the better ways to go is to have the gland removed and follow with the implant afterwards? I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who is adrenal and I keep going back and forth between the implant and surgery, I don't want to see him end up with adrenal disease again in a year or two, but he's so young that i'm afraid to start him on an implant or lupron and have him become immune to it and then be too old for surgery.
It's awesome news that the deslorelin helped her so much, hopefully she won't have to deal with adrenal disease anymore!
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #21 on Nov 9, 2010, 7:30pm »
I haven't read anything on advanced adrenal and the Deslorelin implants. I do know hat some ferrets have been found to have large tumors even with the deslorelin. But what's unknown is the history of the disease prior to administration of the implants.
Here's a correct to my earlier post....
The implants were injected mid-Agust.
Here's the interesting part from the pathology report...
From Description:
"...The adrenal tissue containsan area of fibrosis with some interspersed aggregates of mildly hypertrophic well-differentiated cortical epithelial cells. This change is observed within relatively otherwise normal-appearing cortical tissue..."
From Comments:
"The area of fibrosis described within the adrenal gland may be an area of fibrosis within an adrenal tumor that responded/regressed subsequent to the Suprelorin implant."
-jennifer
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #22 on Nov 9, 2010, 8:49pm »
In response to the following question....
So do you think maybe one of the better ways to go is to have the gland removed and follow with the implant afterwards? I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who is adrenal and I keep going back and forth between the implant and surgery, I don't want to see him end up with adrenal disease again in a year or two, but he's so young that i'm afraid to start him on an implant or lupron and have him become immune to it and then be too old for surgery.
This is a difficult call since there are no data regarding very long term use of the Deslorelin. However, I have heard that there are ferrets out there on their 3rd year of Suprelorin implants that are still working.
Here is how I manage my ferrets (for btter or for worse)
Prep-work:
* get a baseline adrenal panel done.
* Get a baseline ultrasound done.
* After getting the baselines done, get either the suprelorin implant OR the lupron. (Lupron will need to be given MONTHLY for the one-month shots, which work better than the 3-/4-month depots.
* If the dieases is mild/early, delay surgery for now.
* If the disease is advanced/bad, get surgery now.
the reason for delaying the surgery for now is that removing one gland earlier than it really needs to be taken may just push the remaining gland into disease sooner than if the other gland can "hang around" a little longer without putting your ferret in dire risk for metastaic cancer and/or prostate issues. Remember, adrenal tends to be slow to develop, and the tumors don't tend to metasticize over night.
Also, if one drug tops working, you still have the other drug and melatonin as well.
Once you get passed the initial "prep work above, you'll want to monitor the disease as follows:
Maintenance Phase:
5. Check adrenal panel against baseline at least 2 times per year: late dec./ early jan and aug./sept. for males. (For females - late Jan/early feb and oct/nov.) (This is approximate since timing may be affected by latitude.)
6. check the ultrasound baseline once a year. (do this when you do wthe winter time bood work)
If symptoms are not getting much worse, and if the tests indicate that disease is not getting a whole lot worse, you may want to avoid surgery again.
the bottom line is that you want to watch clinical symptoms, blood work, and ultra-sound to determine "if"/"when" to do surgery.
You'll need to discuss findings with the vet, who hopefully has a LOT of experience with adrenal ferrets.
My approach is that I try to detect issues early, monitor often. Adrenal starts out very slowly, so I try to avoid surgery as long as possible.. If I see an abrupt change in blood work , lasting behavior, or the ultrasound, OR if there's a slow steady progression of change over a long period of time such that monitored parameters show moderate diease, I wll do surgery.
Since there is no predicting what may happen, all you can do is try things, monitor & dicuss things with the vet, and basically discuss options as the need arises.
Adrenal disease is soooo frustrating, but remember - there are worse things out there.
jennifer
sherrylynne
Administrator
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #23 on Nov 9, 2010, 9:06pm »
OMG! That is amazing! I really didn't think the glands would start to heal like that
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #24 on Nov 10, 2010, 7:47am »
I was shocked as well.....That makes trying the Deslorelin VERY attractive for avoiding surgery in early adrenal cases. If I hd know that healing was possible, I definitely would have not done the surgery. This is a GOOD argument in favor of base lining with ultrasound to check for reduction in the size of the gland.
The other think that's cool is that since my brats have very few clinical signs (rat tail that clears on its own and behavioral things), there's not much clinical "proof" to determine how well the Suprelorin has been working.
Now THIS info. has been inspirational - LOL!!!!
I also find that my kids handle surgery really well, and they recover/heal so fast.....I swear it's the raw food And I even feed commercial raw. My vet is so amazed at the constitutional and apparent health of my ferrets - I swear by raw - even the freeze-dried is worth doing over kibble.
(I know, I'm "preaching to the choir" )
-jennifer
bluemoose
HF Forum Senior Member
********
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #25 on Nov 10, 2010, 11:59am »
You may have already addressed this but do you have an opinion on using Deslorelin as a preventative measure against adrenal? It would be implanted before what would be the ferret's season if it were intact right? So it would be best to get it in the winter?
Also, how many vets generally have Deslorelin? It is becoming more common or is it still fairly difficult to find?
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #26 on Nov 10, 2010, 9:47pm »
In the US, some vets have the deslorelin. Vets back East and possibly Northwest coast seem more likely to have the implants. In general, the implants require some work to obtain, but it's not hat difficult if you ave a ets that's nterested in geting some.
If you have a ferret that's intact, you can use the Suprelorin implants to keep from coming into season. If I had intact ferrets, I would opt in favor of keeping them out of season by using the Suprelorin implants INSTEAD of neutering.
If your ferret is intact and you plan to try the Suprelorin implants preventively, I would implant early to mid december. The implants can be slow to start working in some ferrets.
However, if your ferrets are adrenal and you need to adres issue, you can give the implant any time. I did mine mid august, and my brats are still trying to figure out how to shed after getting the implant. They seem to have an extended season of "crappy coat" since the implants really started to kick n right when they wanted to shed. It messed up their normal shedding this fall . We've also had an abnormally warm fall this year, so my brats don't quite know what t do with their fur.
-jennifer
bluemoose
HF Forum Senior Member
********
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #27 on Nov 10, 2010, 9:57pm »
Oh mine are neutered. I meant the time of year they would normally go into season if they hadn't been neutered (if that makes sense). Even if the ferret is neutered some hormones are still produced during breeding season yes? Isn't that part of the whole issue with adrenal disease?
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #28 on Nov 10, 2010, 10:14pm »
Yes, all ferret,whether intact or neutered will have hormonal spikes in the late winter/early spring. the problem is that when the gonads are removed, the adrenal glands start to produce the hormones. Over time, the adrenal glands become diseased from being overwrked at taking over the funtion of producing hormones.
-jennifer
bluemoose
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #29 on Nov 10, 2010, 10:46pm »
So if using Deslorelin as a preventative, what is the best time of year to get the implant? Would mid-late December be too late?
Thank you very much for the info! I'll definitely be bringing that up to my vet when I go in with Tikki.
Yeah, I read about Tomichi and thought that was interesting. I'd always heard that the Lupron doesn't stop being effecting until quite some time has gone by with the ferret on it, so I was a bit shocked by that. Maybe some ferrets just have a bigger resistance to lupron naturally? It's just so strange.
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #12 on Oct 9, 2010, 8:37pm »
My vet said that there's some speculation (at least with some fert vets) that ferrets might develop immunity to some od these drugs.
I remember hearing that Des. is supposed to be a "more natural" compound than lupron. But this may be theory.
A long time ago when I had my first two ferts (I think of them EVERY DAY of my life , I did the lupron thing with one of them. Both boys ended up with bilateral adrenalectomies. My one boy started getting prostate issues. We used the lupron a several times. It was very effective helping him with prostate. But he was "late stage adrenal." ...so it's possible that lupron works to a limited degree on ferrets - but it may be effective only when combating the worst situations. Since my kids are early adrenal with subtle signs, perhaps the lupron won't affect them it may not be able to eliminate all hormone production (i.e, they are not really immune to lupron, but lupron can't inhibit all signals from the brain, so they still get early symptoms.)
I don't know if what I wrote makes sense - bu I know what I'm trying to say
-jennifer
ferretfreke
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #13 on Oct 28, 2010, 8:16pm »
So BillyBob has a nice new coat coming in!!! He's back to his normal self as far as his activity level goes too! Getting into all kinds of trouble again
I'm very glad you started this thread and I had a heads up on the tiredness. I would have really worried otherwise. It lasted about 2 weeks and then he kept getting more and more active again. So thanks!
jacksmomma
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #14 on Oct 29, 2010, 5:32am »
Now that Jack is temporarily recovered from his bladder stones, I've been thinking/ researching adrenal ALOT ( i know its going to hit at some point). There are several vets who recommend using the Des implant as a preventative, even implanting right along with altering. Has anyone known any ferrets with such treatment? I've been chatting with my vet about doing it (especially on baby brady) and she wants to read a bit more, but does agree that stopping that first surge of GnRH would be the best way to treat (prevent) early adrenal.
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report - WOW!!!
« Reply #15 on Nov 9, 2010, 1:04pm »
OK,
I have some SIGNIFICANT news to report regarding the Suprelorin implants.
Background: Kachina is a late alter sprite over 5.5 years old. She was confirmed (UT panel) as mildly adrenal about a year ago. She had been given the 3-month lupron shots preventively and as a treament for adrenal as well. The Lupron did not seem to help - the depot was causing large lumps under the skin, so my vet and I question whether or not the med. was being delivered by the depot. Kachina got her first Suprelorin implant in june or july (I'd have to look it up). My thread has not been very inspirational until NOW.......
Kachina just had her left adrenal gland removed last week. The purpose of doing this was to remove diseased tissue and hopefully the Deslorelin will help to keep her remaining gland healthy. Her left gland was enlarged with discoloration. Her right gland looked perfect front and back. She breezed through the surgery and is back in full swing (battling with her siblings) in less than a week.
Here's where it gets interesting....My vet just called with the pathology report - both he and the pathologists are both amazed by the findings (my vet was doing the Dance of Joy over the phone - LOL!! ) The diseased gland showed hyperplasia only (no displasia or cancer), just overgroth of tissue on normal cell structure. Now here's the part that gets SUPER INTERESTING.
The area of dieased tissue showed fibrosis.....They've never seen this at the lab before, and my vet has never seen or heard of this before.....Both the lab staff and my vet are reporting that the fibrosis is a result of HEALING - kind of like scar tissue. They believ that the Des. has supressed the hormonal function enough for the gland to start healing itself.
Prior to this, there has been a general feeling that once hyperplasia starts, disease will progress until cancer evntually develops if the ferret lives long enough.
SO....this is yet another indication that Deslorelin may work to hormone production to help prevent and/or help heal adrenal disease - at least in early stage disease.
-jennifer
WTFerret
Going Natural
**
« Reply #17 on Nov 9, 2010, 1:28pm
Any way you could add pictures of their progress ?
Heather
Administrator
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #18 on Nov 9, 2010, 2:31pm »
That is really fantastic, Jennifer. Great news. Now, you started your little ones on this at a very early stage of their adrenal and they're younger. What about information on the use of deslorin on older or more advance stages of adrenal? Is there any information on this?
ciao
jacksmomma
Cageless and Roamin' Free
***
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #19 on Nov 9, 2010, 2:43pm »
www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob....=/sdarticle.pdf
It's a little old, but still interesting...
www.vri.cz/docs/vetmed/54-2-89.pdf
acodlin
Going Natural
**
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #20 on Nov 9, 2010, 7:19pm »
So do you think maybe one of the better ways to go is to have the gland removed and follow with the implant afterwards? I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who is adrenal and I keep going back and forth between the implant and surgery, I don't want to see him end up with adrenal disease again in a year or two, but he's so young that i'm afraid to start him on an implant or lupron and have him become immune to it and then be too old for surgery.
It's awesome news that the deslorelin helped her so much, hopefully she won't have to deal with adrenal disease anymore!
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #21 on Nov 9, 2010, 7:30pm »
I haven't read anything on advanced adrenal and the Deslorelin implants. I do know hat some ferrets have been found to have large tumors even with the deslorelin. But what's unknown is the history of the disease prior to administration of the implants.
Here's a correct to my earlier post....
The implants were injected mid-Agust.
Here's the interesting part from the pathology report...
From Description:
"...The adrenal tissue containsan area of fibrosis with some interspersed aggregates of mildly hypertrophic well-differentiated cortical epithelial cells. This change is observed within relatively otherwise normal-appearing cortical tissue..."
From Comments:
"The area of fibrosis described within the adrenal gland may be an area of fibrosis within an adrenal tumor that responded/regressed subsequent to the Suprelorin implant."
-jennifer
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #22 on Nov 9, 2010, 8:49pm »
In response to the following question....
So do you think maybe one of the better ways to go is to have the gland removed and follow with the implant afterwards? I have a 1 1/2 year old boy who is adrenal and I keep going back and forth between the implant and surgery, I don't want to see him end up with adrenal disease again in a year or two, but he's so young that i'm afraid to start him on an implant or lupron and have him become immune to it and then be too old for surgery.
This is a difficult call since there are no data regarding very long term use of the Deslorelin. However, I have heard that there are ferrets out there on their 3rd year of Suprelorin implants that are still working.
Here is how I manage my ferrets (for btter or for worse)
Prep-work:
* get a baseline adrenal panel done.
* Get a baseline ultrasound done.
* After getting the baselines done, get either the suprelorin implant OR the lupron. (Lupron will need to be given MONTHLY for the one-month shots, which work better than the 3-/4-month depots.
* If the dieases is mild/early, delay surgery for now.
* If the disease is advanced/bad, get surgery now.
the reason for delaying the surgery for now is that removing one gland earlier than it really needs to be taken may just push the remaining gland into disease sooner than if the other gland can "hang around" a little longer without putting your ferret in dire risk for metastaic cancer and/or prostate issues. Remember, adrenal tends to be slow to develop, and the tumors don't tend to metasticize over night.
Also, if one drug tops working, you still have the other drug and melatonin as well.
Once you get passed the initial "prep work above, you'll want to monitor the disease as follows:
Maintenance Phase:
5. Check adrenal panel against baseline at least 2 times per year: late dec./ early jan and aug./sept. for males. (For females - late Jan/early feb and oct/nov.) (This is approximate since timing may be affected by latitude.)
6. check the ultrasound baseline once a year. (do this when you do wthe winter time bood work)
If symptoms are not getting much worse, and if the tests indicate that disease is not getting a whole lot worse, you may want to avoid surgery again.
the bottom line is that you want to watch clinical symptoms, blood work, and ultra-sound to determine "if"/"when" to do surgery.
You'll need to discuss findings with the vet, who hopefully has a LOT of experience with adrenal ferrets.
My approach is that I try to detect issues early, monitor often. Adrenal starts out very slowly, so I try to avoid surgery as long as possible.. If I see an abrupt change in blood work , lasting behavior, or the ultrasound, OR if there's a slow steady progression of change over a long period of time such that monitored parameters show moderate diease, I wll do surgery.
Since there is no predicting what may happen, all you can do is try things, monitor & dicuss things with the vet, and basically discuss options as the need arises.
Adrenal disease is soooo frustrating, but remember - there are worse things out there.
jennifer
sherrylynne
Administrator
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #23 on Nov 9, 2010, 9:06pm »
OMG! That is amazing! I really didn't think the glands would start to heal like that
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #24 on Nov 10, 2010, 7:47am »
I was shocked as well.....That makes trying the Deslorelin VERY attractive for avoiding surgery in early adrenal cases. If I hd know that healing was possible, I definitely would have not done the surgery. This is a GOOD argument in favor of base lining with ultrasound to check for reduction in the size of the gland.
The other think that's cool is that since my brats have very few clinical signs (rat tail that clears on its own and behavioral things), there's not much clinical "proof" to determine how well the Suprelorin has been working.
Now THIS info. has been inspirational - LOL!!!!
I also find that my kids handle surgery really well, and they recover/heal so fast.....I swear it's the raw food And I even feed commercial raw. My vet is so amazed at the constitutional and apparent health of my ferrets - I swear by raw - even the freeze-dried is worth doing over kibble.
(I know, I'm "preaching to the choir"
)-jennifer
bluemoose
HF Forum Senior Member
********
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #25 on Nov 10, 2010, 11:59am »
You may have already addressed this but do you have an opinion on using Deslorelin as a preventative measure against adrenal? It would be implanted before what would be the ferret's season if it were intact right? So it would be best to get it in the winter?
Also, how many vets generally have Deslorelin? It is becoming more common or is it still fairly difficult to find?
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #26 on Nov 10, 2010, 9:47pm »
In the US, some vets have the deslorelin. Vets back East and possibly Northwest coast seem more likely to have the implants. In general, the implants require some work to obtain, but it's not hat difficult if you ave a ets that's nterested in geting some.
If you have a ferret that's intact, you can use the Suprelorin implants to keep from coming into season. If I had intact ferrets, I would opt in favor of keeping them out of season by using the Suprelorin implants INSTEAD of neutering.
If your ferret is intact and you plan to try the Suprelorin implants preventively, I would implant early to mid december. The implants can be slow to start working in some ferrets.
However, if your ferrets are adrenal and you need to adres issue, you can give the implant any time. I did mine mid august, and my brats are still trying to figure out how to shed after getting the implant. They seem to have an extended season of "crappy coat" since the implants really started to kick n right when they wanted to shed. It messed up their normal shedding this fall
. We've also had an abnormally warm fall this year, so my brats don't quite know what t do with their fur.-jennifer
bluemoose
HF Forum Senior Member
********
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #27 on Nov 10, 2010, 9:57pm »
Oh mine are neutered. I meant the time of year they would normally go into season if they hadn't been neutered (if that makes sense). Even if the ferret is neutered some hormones are still produced during breeding season yes? Isn't that part of the whole issue with adrenal disease?
mustelidmusk
Holistic Ferret Mentor
*****
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #28 on Nov 10, 2010, 10:14pm »
Yes, all ferret,whether intact or neutered will have hormonal spikes in the late winter/early spring. the problem is that when the gonads are removed, the adrenal glands start to produce the hormones. Over time, the adrenal glands become diseased from being overwrked at taking over the funtion of producing hormones.
-jennifer
bluemoose
Re: Mustelidmusk's Deslorelin Report
« Reply #29 on Nov 10, 2010, 10:46pm »
So if using Deslorelin as a preventative, what is the best time of year to get the implant? Would mid-late December be too late?
He's such a sweet boy.
.
Has not yet been tested for adrenal. 