nanjferret
New member
Ferrets are people too!
Posts: 94
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Post by nanjferret on Apr 27, 2012 12:27:28 GMT -5
Sorry I guess I did not get the jist of the original question! I think anytime you can delay surgical castration gives the ferret that much more time without possible negative imbalances. They do not need to have a heat cycle like dogs do, that is a misconception that many non ferret savy vets will tell you. Giving the Des for a few years then castrating is better than just castrating and the Des can also still be used as a preventative afterwards. I just wish the implant would become more readily available here in the US and reasonably priced to have put in. So many of the vets charge enormous fees. I've found so far the best time to start the implant is when the ferret is close to a year old before they come into heat. So, basically early in the year around January the year after they were born. When a hob is allowed to come into season they learn hob behavior. If they never come into a full season they stay more benign in their attitude towards other ferrets, More like a fixed pet. This is a plus when you have multiple ferrets where you want them all to get along and live together. The hobs I've implanted later have a hard time adjusting to not wanting to challenge other males for territory. It doesn't seem to matter with the jills as far as attitudes but there is no benefit to letting a jill have a first heat and some potential negatives such as possibly Pyo. Yes I was interested in the Lupron side effects too and was surprised at this info. This information about it came from Veterinarians used to dealing with large shelters and many ferrets using Lupron for Adrenal. They said a long time Lupron user when in surgery can have tissue that just melts like mush and will not hold a stitch. Not good. And yes the once a year Lupron shot to enhance a show ferret is used by at least several well known breeders, show'rs. I know Linda of Mi Corazon Ferretry does not do this as she is a good friend of mine and is very ethical. Any time you have people that show animals there are always things done behind the lines most do not know about.
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Post by crazylady on May 3, 2012 14:38:35 GMT -5
Hi I do not know about the lupron shot being used for showing so I cannot comment on that but I do know des is not only used as a preventative for adrenal I judge all over the world and in a lot of the countries when I have spoken to owners at the shows they have stated it was put in so they could continue to show there ferrets ! and did not have to have the problem of leaving ferrets at home because they were in season or so they did not loose points at shows because males smelled so bad and had attitude at certain times of the year ! when Looking at judging sheets I take the des into consideration at shows because just as lupron can as you say change muscle tone des can change coat condition temperament and colour in a whole ferret in breeding season I expect to see whole albinos looking a little yellow its natural ! implanted albinos are winter white ! so is des not also an unfair advantage on the show scene ? just my two pennies worth take care bye for now Bev
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2012 14:50:04 GMT -5
Very valid point
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nanjferret
New member
Ferrets are people too!
Posts: 94
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Post by nanjferret on May 3, 2012 22:57:12 GMT -5
Yes an implanted ferret does have a better coat etc but the reason one would be implanted would be for long term for castration or health such as Adrenal. Giving a shot of Lupron just for showing and for no other reason is wrong IMO. DES is new to the US for the most part so the shows might need to re evaluate and either make it mandatory to disclose an implanted ferret or create separate classes for them. An implanted whole male is pretty obvious in the middle of the breeding season. He's the only one with the good smelling coat and his nads non existent! Also, the current US shows still have judges take off for natural yellowing of the coat etc. There are no exceptions taken for a whole male in full rut. I've never understood this as if it is a natural thing that happens it should be acceptable. A male so far into rut where he is just a skinny shadow of himself should be kept at home for his own sake. There are no easy answers but putting in any chemical whether it is DES or Lupron just to be able to show isn't good.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2012 23:55:33 GMT -5
We still do have many unanswered questions regarding "when" to neuter. My kids are late alters all 4 were reached puberty prior to altering them. - all 4 are technically adrenal. (I lost my Shaman last December due to cardiomyopathy, but he my other 3 are over seven. ) While they are adrenal, they are not "bad cases" - many ferret owners and vets would not recognize adrenal disease in my ferrets based upon overt symptoms. That being said, some vets feel preventing the first season is key to preventing adrenal - the jury is still out on this. I have to admit that living a lifetime without ever reaching puberty seems very unnatural. But this is something we do not know. I, personally would be inclined to allow first season and then treat with Des. (I do not breed, so no worries there!) I do have a secret confession....I've been trying to come up with a plot to steal Nanj's Mojo boy - he stole my heart at Spring Nats. the year before last -jennifer
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Post by miamiferret2 on May 4, 2012 11:26:36 GMT -5
i signed up for the deslo forum weeks ago but I cannot see anything. every time i try to log in to this forum i get this message: Ferret Deslorelin use for Castration :: Account Pending Approval Account Pending Approval Currently your account is waiting for approval from a staff member. Once an administrator has approved your account you will get access to this forum. Read more: ferretdes.proboards.com/index.cgi#ixzz1tv2Vj9ja
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2012 13:29:04 GMT -5
Oh! Then Nancy needs to get on and approve you so you can get in :S PM her maybe?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 0:25:54 GMT -5
I have the same problem as miami...
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Post by Sherry on May 5, 2012 0:35:22 GMT -5
Shoot her a message here. She may not have realized it.
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Post by crazylady on May 6, 2012 16:42:12 GMT -5
Hi all this was posted on the fml today I think the girl makes a valid point that des is still being tested and data collected and people need to base there choices on that fact
Hi Everyone
I don't post much, but I would like to respond to the Des conversation, I live in Holland and am one of the people who had their ferrets implanted for the research for Dr Nico Schoemaker as an alterative to castration. My ferrets will be seven in Augustus, they have had three implants and not had any problems. But what everyone seems to have forgotten is that this is still an experiment and it will take a few more years to be sure that this is safe. I know of one person here who's ferret had liver problems, he was a kit when he got the implant, the liver problems stared soon after, was this from the implant? the vet didn't think so, but his owner suspected it might be, after a year she had it removed and half a year later his liver problems were also as good as gone, was this due to the removal of the implant or good veterinary treatment, we will not know until more cases have been documented. There is still to much unknown, there is still a lot we need to take into consideration. Not all people respond the same to treatment, so logically also ferrets can respond differently.
Has no one thought of a mistake? Ardith did say that the implant had a different packing and the needles were bigger, these implants are also made for horses, people do make mistakes, maybe the wrong label was put on the package, we will not know if everyone just suspects that there might be something wrong but says nothing, I for one was very happy that Ardith posted about what happened to her ferrets and I have sent a copy of her post to several vets in Holland that work with the implant, and as one vet said, we have not had any problems yet, but is good to have this sort of information if we do see problems.
I would rather be safe than sorry and if I race to the vet and say, something is wrong please remove the implant now, I would like them to know why I want it removed without being told I am panicking for nothing. I might be, but that's my prerogative. Ardith Thank you, I grieve for your los and will watch my ferrets double when they get the next implant.
I thought she made some valid points take care bye for now Bev
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