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Post by Heather on Mar 21, 2012 20:14:49 GMT -5
Name: HF Forum Username: ferretlove67
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? research, "Ferrets for dummies" and other information from breeders
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
If There can be a way, whole prey will meet or exceed the nutritional values of a kibble, I am all for it and doing it solely. If it needs to be supplemented, I choose Wysong epigen 90. I am unsure of the whole raw diet, I like the idea of feeding whole prey. Suggestions welcome. I want to feed Frozen to eliminate the extra hazards of parasites. If I had the energy, time, etc to breed my own, I would; however I have dedicated a room already to the my ferrets and think it might be better to order. Whatever is healthier, works for them, and me is perfectly fine and within financial limits being a plus. I'd so much rather save the extra funds for a vet fund. Hope that made some sens of it.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? They are carnivores in the wild and in captivity and I want to provide the best diet I can to maximize their health and nutritional needs.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Yes! I sure will give it my best shot! 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? How long have you had each ferret for? 6 ferrets. Carlisle, Esme, Rosalie, Jasper, Alice and Jacob. Approx 1-2.5 years in age depending on the ferret. No health issues, tested ADV negative even and I did that just for myself. UTD on vaccinations and active lil monster they are I have some ferrets that are bigger but not overweight. Its their bloodlines. The females are of course smaller but all are a great weight. New to ferrets, not to exotics. I have a pretty good grasp on their needs.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) Probiotics, Epigen 90 and Archetype-1, nupro and the 8 in 1 ferretone
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? Yes, the dry natural worked well, especially archetype-1
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? Passionate owner, have a medical background studying now for, hope to make a difference!
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? currently all week usually except any vacation days etc,
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi I'm Heather, and we're going to be working together for the next little while trying to convince your furbabies to change to an even healthier diet I've been feeding a raw/natural diet for a little over 15 yrs. I have a small private rescue/sanctuary, just outside of Toronto, Canada where all ferrets turned into me are switched immediately over to a raw diet that consists of ground raw/whole meats or frankenprey/ and prey diet. At present every ferret eats this full range of diets. I don't keep kibbles in the house, if I can possibly avoid it. Too many little kibble addicts . All my furbabies are free roaming and have access to an outdoor play area that they can access at will. At present there are 9 little fuzzbutts who call this their permanent home. They range in ages of about 1 yr -- little Minion to Odin, who is 9 or 10 yrs, a late alter that was turned in 5 yrs ago intact. I would like to say my most difficult switch was a little senior who was turned in at 9 yrs of age (she by the way has been my biggest raw switch challenge, until recently, which had me at times wondering why I was doing this to her) She eventually was completely switched and putting on a beautiful dark black coat, teeth that were nicely cleaned up, and she actually has a lot of fun investigating the house (she used to do nothing but sleep when she first was turned in). She has made me aware that every ferret no matter how old, can get a new lease on life by eating a species appropriate diet. She eventually passed on at 11 yrs of age to complete organ failure....old age. Raw soupy is my favourite switching tool and one that I've had the most success with. I will be honest I have little knowledge about dried and freeze dried meats (other than they need to be hydrated ) You can try to get them to eat a raw soup immediately. You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:
8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat) 1/2 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder) 1 raw chicken heart 1/2 raw chicken liver Water or broth(use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker) I've also started adding raw goat milk, about 1 tsp to this mixture, they seem to like it. Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them. I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest.
Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Don't be surprised if your furbabies' initial reaction is to gag, spit and look at you like, what are you trying to poison me with but don't let them get away with it The hardest part is to insist and be consistent. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate.
Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw.
This is a good way to slowly ease them into wet foods. I use this method to switch all my furbabies and I've personally switched over 30 ferrets of my own in the last few years. I will let you read through and if you have any questions please ask. Good luck ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 24, 2012 0:42:38 GMT -5
Just saw this and so glad! ok, yes have all the necessary ingredients. I will look for goats milk. I think that is actually brilliant and likely contains some good "probiotics" I would say? No? I was always told "milk" was bad, but I haven't noticed that in the probiotic I add. No more freeze dried. It took me a bit, but licking off finger was easiest. No "you poisoned me" looks yet. LOL. I have one female that hates soupy although it was thicker, but loves ground chicken with organs then I did the ground and another male "jacob" in pic likes the soupy not into the ground yet. How much should I make sure they are getting in? should I do a weight of the food dish when I take it out to evaluate how much they actually ate? Is adding more not recommended? Reason I ask is because I always think more is better than less. But maybe it is backwards? Currently did the chicken, chicken heart and chicken liver soupy and it went well except one. Then I did the ground and that one did well and loves it and jacob decided he was not into it, yet he will eat a chick etc ( yep know its a treat). I have dens set-up, Rubbermaid on side for easier cleaning with the front cut out. Is there any risk to things like pasturella in rabbits for the ferrets? I guess, other than a parasite, that is all that comes to mind. Freezing takes away that risk to minimum, not all I am guessing? I am going to feed whole prey and raw, maybe frankenprey. I have 6 currently, beautiful and happy and they can be trouble-makers, a few. I have half being the lazy until woken and the other half at the door waiting for me to come give attention and food until they hit their food coma again! In the US, I bet Canada is gorgeous! I think the spoon idea is great! I can get the finger licking going, so spoon shouldn't be too hard. one thing is how much taurine and calcium to add and when? I want to make sure they get it all. When you say "frankenprey" you mean organic chicken at the grocers right? Thanks and although I have a good start, this will be beneficial. I will be on a mini-vaca with spouse the 30-31st so don't be alarmed. We really need a day to spend together as I have a handful of children. Oh, next question. How can I make this safe for kids old enough to supervise and gently handle the ferrets safely on a raw/whole prey diet? I have always been the mom to let them get dirty for a good immune system and then bathe at night, but there are limitations. I wouldn't ever let them touch the raw meat, if that makes sense? It is rare they ever have time to want to interact with the ferrets as playing outdoors is so much more fun! but sometimes they ask, so far I have said no, until I asked now. I want to encourage the ferrets to enjoy more than just me. I also want to insure the kids safely handle them as well. I just wash my hands and haven't gotten sick at all. I didnt expect to however. I still need to get over my " have to wear gloves when feeding" dilemma ;D What can help prevent the hairball/clogs etc issues hollistically? Is that the use of the iceland pure salmon oil I have been using also beneficial for? I used to use ferretlax or whatever it is called. I jut want to make sure I am making everything as great and safe as possible. P.s. nice to meet you!
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Post by Heather on Mar 24, 2012 1:49:08 GMT -5
Ok.... It sounds like you're well on your way. If your little girlie isn't fond of the soupy let her eat a ground mixed, there's no harm in that. I do suggest that you see if you can get her over the texture just to help you if and when (with ferrets it's inevitable) that she gets sick. Soupy is the solid fall back and sometimes it's the only thing they'll eat. When it's times like that you will consider it a good practice to have orientated them to soupy before then. Otherwise, it makes an already stressful situation even more so as you're fighting with your little one who thinks your feeding her poison instead of life saving soupies. Here's a link to a thread that Sherry set up for amounts to feed holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=questions&action=display&thread=85Remember it's just a guide line. The amounts can vary on size, age, health, season and where they are in the switch. If you add more than they will eat you're just wasting the food. You will eventually get the hang of how much they eat. I don't think I've measured anything except meds in years. Couple of blocks of this, a tray of that...half a can of pumpkin....a dollop of this in the food bowl, 3 mice to you and half a rat to this cage. I've know approx what everyone eats. Seasonal changes still through me off. I cannot get used to the amounts that they eat at the end of the summer and into the fall and am always caught be surprise when they "stop" eating in the spring. If you're uncomfortable with the meats, concerned about parasites, freezing for a minimum of two weeks is the general consensus. If you're feeding wild prey, its usually recommended unless you really know the source. I don't normally supplement allowing variety to cover my wee ones' needs but you can add taurine if you like. I believe it's between 1/2 tsp to a full tsp per cup of meat. I usually just add some extra hearts if I'm concerned that they've been frozen too long or too often. I also add taurine to supplement commercial grinds as they don't usually add enough heart to their mixes. If you use ground egg shell in your grinds you shouldn't need to add calcium. I use bone meal, actual ground bone or whole bones, or egg shell. You can also use bird cuttle bone too. Frankenprey is any meat that you use to put together a whole animal. For example, last weeks ground mix was ground chicken necks and backs, with turkey hearts, venison liver and lungs, pumpkin for fur, and some scrambled eggs for good measure (chickens). I don't use organic, I just can't afford it unfortunately. They do get farm fresh occasionally, emu, venison and elk but generally speaking they eat what we eat. My kid has always helped with the ferrets but I suppose it depends on how old and responsible they are. I don't bother with a lot of the sanitary stuff....kids need their pound of dirt and none of mine have ever suffered from handling any of the animals or the farm animals of friends. They can always wash their hands if you have concerns. My kids have helped feed the ferrets picked up poops (they've all got quire proficient with a paper towel). They're all grown up now but my son and his girl friend are now my ferret sitters allowing me some much needed time off every once in awhile. Hairball remedies is pumpkin regularly, vaseline or ferretlax in emergencies (along with the pumpkin) I hope I've covered all your questions. If not give me a poke Have a good one ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 24, 2012 14:54:44 GMT -5
sounds good! Will make more soupy and get her liking both. I don't feed live so that won't happen there , I highly doubt. I'd rather raise and freeze after a human euth if that were the case. I will try the spoon because she will readily eat off fingers and would eat it all if i kept her in my lap with the fingers, so spoon should work. Will let you know. Going to check out that link too. I usually sprinkle and mix in a tid bit of taurine now to things and I use the link provided here for the calcium from egg shells. I bought two bags so it should last a while. OH, should I refrigerate the calcium? it does degrade doesn't it after a period of time? Just a question, never used egg calcium from shells before. Right now I kind of have a drawer system set up for suppliments, but extra might be good to put in fridge. Now I know what the pumpkin was for. Do they like it well usually? I will be adding that for sure. Have it here, bought it, and forgot it was a part of the diet. Good to know. Sounds good about the kids etc. My ferrets are doing good on other aspects, they are active at appropriate times, love my attention, love to eat ( what ferret doesn't lol unless sick) drink a good amount of water, use the litter box well. I am finding the custom pan liners to be more of a hassle to find food they stash so may just not use them, they like to crawl under it. We shall see. Excited to get them over to the meat meats. But I know its a process and to ease its way if it doesn't go as planned. do you change dishes between each soupy meal or once a day? I think that is about it. I have three dishes per ferret and washing is no biggie in dishwasher to change out frequently for soupy versus frozen whole prey being good longer. I'll be feeding everything that came from frozen. Let me know if you have any other suggestions as of now. I am sure they love my attention and all the good food they get! Excited!
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Post by Heather on Mar 24, 2012 15:29:20 GMT -5
I keep my egg shells in the freezer, but more because I don't use it frequently (use ground chicken bone for my base food). I use it if I've got a sickie on human baby food and only until I've created a cooked baby food that I make up for my sickies. Pumpkin, some like it some don't. I just mix pumpkin in with their ground or soupy and they never know they're eating it. Some people, Mikey for one has ferrets who love it straight up. Again, it's a matter of getting them used to it. I change up the bowls every time they finish their food (I think that's what you meant) I've got a sink full that is soaking in super hot water right now. Don't ever feel that you have to feed live, in fact you don't even have to feed prey. Prey is considered optimum feeding but anything that is raw is going to give your little one hundred times better diet than they'd ever have eating kibbles (even high end ferret kibbles). I do feed live occasionally but at the moment I don't really have ferrets that are good swift killers (except my oldsters) and though canned hunts provide them with stimulation I'm trying to figure out a tunnel/box system so they can legitimately hunt. Let me know how things are going ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 25, 2012 0:30:27 GMT -5
Ok, didnt put the pumpkin mixed in, should have but gave it by finger. Soupy girl is loving it. I made it more creamy. Tomorrow I will look for goats milk. I made a lot of soupy. But with six, it can go fast. 3 lbs of chicken worth should give you an idea. I mixed in the calcium powder, will put the unopened calcium in the freezer. It does degrade, if its like any other, in 6 months. So best to save its integrity i think? I think jacob will eat the soupy. He did give me a "poison face" lol. I then fed him by finger a good bit, so we shall see. If not he can have ground , but i'd love to keep him on soupy and transition everyone. Too late LOL! just filled a box of rodentpro today with 6 and 8 week old quail, yes I know my freezer is overloaded, about 100-200 mice, can't remember of the weanlings and the adults, and medium GP and chicadees for treats. I'll be set for quite some time! Hoping to get everyone over to full raw, but I know it doesnt happen overnight. Atleast they like the ground. That is a start and pumpkin was not so bad. Most readily ate that first. I have extra dishes, I have been washing out each time by hand but i might just throw in a hot sink like you do and have new ones ready to make life easier. I did mix in the calcium and some taurine. oh, and probiotics until I get the goats milk. nope no live. I wouldnt be able to kill it fast enough if they didn't and the thought makes my tummy gurgle in ;D
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Post by Heather on Mar 25, 2012 2:27:04 GMT -5
Hmmm, you don't have to tell me about how fast food disappears....I made up about 15 lbs of ground raw 2 weeks ago, I'm going to be making up another tomorrow. I've only got 9 right now Sounds like you've got things under control. Once you've got them all eating the soupy or to where you want them to be eating it you can start thickening up the soup and adding some tiny (fingernail sized) chunks to see if you can convince some of the more adventuresome of your business to eat "real' meats ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 26, 2012 0:14:37 GMT -5
sounds like a plan! Yep I got everyone liking it, spoon fed jacob. He would take it off the spoon himself. He's a stubborn wee one i tell you. Gave me a few bad looks lol but I hope that he takes to it. Have dishes soaking. So much easier than cleaning one by one every time. Mixed in the pumpkin this tiem. Everyone is cleaning their dishes except jacob so just him.
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Post by Heather on Mar 26, 2012 1:46:06 GMT -5
Great. Sounds like a successful endeavour. You may want to do a day or two like this and then start thickening up your soupy and adding some small pieces of meat to challenge them ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 26, 2012 3:17:33 GMT -5
sounds like a plan! I hope he eats it all up! then i will add in chunkier pieces.
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 27, 2012 8:39:39 GMT -5
ok spoon fed Jacob again, will try to see how it goes over. He sure loves the extra attention. Will see, he did better last night. Everyone else is doing well on it!
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Post by Heather on Mar 27, 2012 10:28:51 GMT -5
I think that's one of the problems with the whole switching thing. Some of them like the special attention too much and want to be hand fed forever...brats ;D Let me know how the new chunkier soupy goes ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 27, 2012 17:38:54 GMT -5
will do! I still have one serving left for this evening. Yeah, he licked the spoon, we shall see what progress we make this time. Little trouble maker I swear and he is so loving too! I think he likes it. I can't carry him like a baby all day every day, he is sucking me in I tell you!
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Post by Heather on Mar 27, 2012 19:26:13 GMT -5
Probably....they're really good at it ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 27, 2012 23:02:52 GMT -5
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