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Post by Sherry on Mar 22, 2012 17:45:58 GMT -5
Since they are having "mixed" meals, it's not too surprising their stools vary. I would gather they are eating their meal throughout the day. The resultant poops will reflect what they ate. Most ferrets also eat more in the morning, so that's not too surprising. With the seedy stools, what protein have they eaten when they have those?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2012 6:06:03 GMT -5
It was chicken, but it was fresh chicken, and I just smelled it (still have the rest in the fridge) and it smells fine, and doesn't expire for another 3 days.
So the fact that they are obviously sometimes just eating the liver instead of the chicken shouldn't be too much of a worry? I had time to sit and watch them eat their meal this morning, and everyone was chowing down on bones, so I think they are happy to eat it again. Will moniter their poops closely.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 23, 2012 9:10:12 GMT -5
The thing with liver is you have to try to keep to that 2 oz a week per ferret. If they start getting too much, they'd really start getting liquid stools. Okay, you say they are eating bone, organ, and heart fine? If so, can you write me up a formal menu of what they'll be eating for a week?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 6:41:35 GMT -5
Sorry Sherry, I only just saw that you replied! I think their menu is as follows, but I'll double check when I get home: Monday AM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Monday PM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of liver lamb/pork, pinch of bone meal powder. Tuesday AM: 8oz of boneless pork with pinch of bone meal powder Tuesday PM: 8oz of Beef heart with a pinch of bone meal powder Wednesday AM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb kidney, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Wednesday PM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Thursday AM: 8oz of Beef heart with a pinch of bone meal powder Thursday PM: 8oz of boneless pork with pinch of bone meal powder Friday AM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork kidney, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce. Friday PM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver, pinch of bone meal powder. Saturday AM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork kidney, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Saturday PM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Sunday AM: Mice/rats for clean teethies Sunday PM: Chicken wings bone in (6oz) 1oz of lamb/pork kidney, pinch of bone meal powder and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce I have been kind of ad-libbing with the iceberg lettuce to get firmer stools depending on how they are, some times they don't need it, other times they do. Whether they get lamb or pork liver or kidney depends on what they have at the store, I normally try and get lamb so they get a bigger variety of proteins, but sometimes they only have the pork. I keep going into the butchers to try and get chicken/turkey/duck hearts to make the soup with, but every time they've either just run out, or will be getting some tomorrow. They never seem to, but I'm keen to get them to eat soup occasionally like you said, so if they're sick there's something they'll eat. I've got duck livers and can get everything else easily, just the hearts that's the problem. I imagine beef heart won't blend properly?
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2012 8:54:46 GMT -5
You've got 5 proteins, so that's good. Heart is good. And no, beef heart won't puree- more likely to burn your motor out unless you've go a good food processor ;D Okay, a couple of changes for your menu. You have 3 ferrets? Or 4? Sorry- can't recall right now if you took in a 4th or not ;D If it's still the three, you need to cut two ounces of the liver out of the week's menu. And since you've got 10 bone in meals with the wings, take out one of those as well as the bone meal on the boneless meats(leave it on the liver to firm the stools). Replace the one chicken wing meal with a boneless meat(again leaving out the bonemeal on the muscle meats) Alternately you could replace a couple of the wing meals with drumsticks, just smash the bone up for them with a meat hammer or cleaver(again, leaving out the bonemeal on the boneless meats). When you can access other bone in meats for them, just substitute in the appropriate places. Same for the muscle meats and the heart. It just adds variety for them. If/when you can get another organ besides liver, it's also 2oz of that a week per ferret If you want to vary it up a bit, you can also switch a couple of the meals around, so hopefully they won't get tired of the chicken wings quite as quickly as they may otherwise. So on a day when they have 2 wing meals, give one wing meal and one muscle meal, that way on the boneless day, instead of 2 boneless meals, they'd have one of each. On a Monday, it would translate to chicken wings/boneless pork Tuesday would be chicken wings/beef heart, etc. Not sure about your little ones, but mine do tend to be spoiled, and if I give them the same meal too many times in a week, they start to simply refuse to eat it for up to a month
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 10:43:25 GMT -5
There's 4 of them now (or rather 3 ferrets, and one who thinks she is a rabid shark), so is the amount of liver and kidney I give them okay for 4? I was under the impression that bone in stuff like legs and thighs weren't heavy enough in bone for bone-in days? It would be great if they are because then I can get some duck legs for a bit of variety, but at the moment I'm struggling to source anything other than chicken wings that's heavy enough in bone, except pork chops, but I can't chop that up. And shoudl I have a total of 2oz of organ a week per ferret, or 2 oz of liver and 2 of something else? Is this okay as a revised menu?: Monday AM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Monday PM: 8oz of boneless pork with pinch of bone meal powder Tuesday AM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of liver lamb/pork Tuesday PM: 8oz of Beef heart with a pinch of bone meal powder Wednesday AM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb/pork kidney. Wednesday PM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Thursday AM: 8oz of boneless pork with pinch of bone meal powder and ½ tsp lettuce Thursday PM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb kidney and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce Friday AM: 8oz Boneless pork with pinch of bone meal powder Friday PM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver Saturday AM: 8oz of Beef heart with a pinch of bone meal powder Saturday PM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb/pork liver. Sunday AM: Mice/rats for clean teethes - one each Sunday PM: Chicken wings bone in (7oz) 1oz of lamb/pork kidney and 1/2 tsp of iceberg lettuce And as for being spoiled- yes, that's the reason they stopped eating the chicken bone without any liver on it or added blood from other stuff. When dishing up boneless meals I also often tip the blood into their next day chicken bone meals to encourage them to eat it, assume this is okay? Sometimes I switch the pork for beef which they prefer, if it's on offer or something. I've been giving them bone-in meal with all their bone meals recently is this okay? What would a calcium overdose do? I was feeding them bone-in for both meals on some days because I figured if I gave them bone in the morning and they didn't eat it, then they wpuld fill up on heart or something in evening, but they seem to be eating everthing now, and I suppose it might help with the stools if they are more spread out?
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2012 12:12:22 GMT -5
In general, a ferret needs 8-9 bone meals a week. I'd mentioned it because you had 10 meals of wings, as well as having bone meal on every meal otherwise ;D First thing you would likely start noticing after a while would be white, chalky stools, and then constipation. This would occur before they developed hypercalcemia. Next stage would be crystals in the urine, I *think* oxcylate type, but can't recall right now for certain. So yes, they can get too much calcium. If you give, say, 7 wing meals, then add a duck wing for the other. They will likely only eat the wing tip and the middle bones if they are smashed up. I think the drumette would be too dense for most ferret over here in NA, but your guys may be able to chomp through them. And yes, with 4 ferrets your liver amounts are correct Approx. amounts for organs are 2oz liver and 2oz other organ per week. Keep in mind though- a small female will need a bit less than a large male, proportion wise. These are simply averages that will fill the dietary requirements without being too much for their system to handle. As time goes on, you'll be better able to judge who needs more or less of a particular meat by their stools
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2012 12:15:14 GMT -5
Menu looks pretty good! Are they finishing everything and looking for more, or is there usually a bit left over at the next feeding? If they are finishing everything up, you may have to increase the amounts for a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 13:42:44 GMT -5
It's normally a case of I'll feed them in the morning, and they'll eat all or most of the their morning meal by the evening, but with the evening meal they only eat about 1/2 to 2/3 of it before I take it out in the morning. I normally leave about 12 hours between feeds, so I think they just eat less because they sleep more at night. With the white stools - I did have some of those yesterday, but I assumed they were from pork fat as they'd had boneless pork should I be worried, or does it normally takes ages for them to develop hypercalcemia? I don't think anyone is constipated, if anything their stools look a little loose for my liking. How much tougher is duck wing compared to bone? If I can't chop up a pork bone, but manage chicken easily, will I manage duck? Unfortunately I'm not the stongest person in the world, and in this town the only butchers that I can get to don't have bansaws. I didn't realise that duck was much tougher than chicken, I just assumed it would be the same as they are both poultry. Also, I haven't seen any duck wings around here, but I have seen duck thighs and legs, so are they bone heavy enough for bone days?
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2012 15:13:17 GMT -5
Duck is denser than chicken, but not as dense as pork. Basically- anything that flies will have lighter bones(hollow) than land dwellers. However, leg and thigh bones are generally too dense, unless the bird is small. Can you get Cornish hen? That's another good bone for them, and they can eat all if it. If stools are constipated, they actually look dry and cracked, and you'd see them straining to go. If that isn't happening, odds are it's fat
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 16:28:41 GMT -5
Okay, they don't look like they are straining or anything but I'll keep a close watch on them. I don't think I've ever seen cornish hen advertised anywhere, though I occassionally see pheasant, grouse or other game-birds, but they are always whole, without the organs, and cost the earth. I assume Turkey bones would be even worse? What are rabbit bones like to chop?
I think I'll have to stick with the chicken bones until I move in about 6 weeks, then I'll be in the city where there's loads of meat markets and they'll be spoiled for choice. I can't think of anything else that I can buy with bone-in, that I can chop easily, that I can get at a local supermarket in this small town, but I'll keep my eye out.
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2012 16:33:36 GMT -5
Sounds good! Okay- I'm going to have Heather come in and take a look at this, and we'll see about getting you graduated!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2012 18:22:51 GMT -5
Yay!
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Post by Heather on Mar 28, 2012 22:09:04 GMT -5
Congratulations you've graduated and you're ready to walk this path alone, now. You have the foundation to help you feed your fuzzes in a more natural and healthy manner. Please remember that your learning never stops, and dietary needs change from ferret to ferret (as I'm sure you are more than aware of) and throughout each their lives. I would also like you to be aware that though you now have the capability and the knowledge to create and adjust your little ones diets, you are never alone and that your mentor (you need only pm) is always available to you. The list is also a very good resource and you should always be aware that it's available to answer any questions you may have either about diet or care. Despite graduating, please continue to search out other protein sources to expand and improve your little ones diet. Good luck, in a few days either Sherry or I will lock down this thread. If you wish to update your menu do so now as it will be viewed and can be used by yourself and many others at any time as a reference tool. Once it gets locked down you will not be able to post or change it. Your mentor will be in to congratulate you shortly . Congratulations again ciao
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Post by Sherry on Mar 28, 2012 22:51:15 GMT -5
Congratulations!!! I'm so glad I was able to help you get to this point
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