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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 11, 2012 17:17:46 GMT -5
Ok here are my questions I have on feeding whole prey or a combo etc. Is there a way to keep the costs within my budget feeding whole prey only? ( 100 or so a month or within that area?) Do I have to feed a combo of raw and whole prey to: 1. switch to whole prey or a combo 2. for whole prey and trusted sources, all I can think of is one source (rodentpro and I was thinking large pinkies, medium, 1 week and 2 week quail, a rabbit occasionally (spendy) and GP 3. If I need a sitter, do any of you face issues? They would come to my place, but I would need to make sure things are clearly laid out as far as diet goes 4. What supplements are needed to keep the diet complete for them and healthier than a kibble? We do have a pet food deli about a half an hr drive from me that does carry raw. I'm not a huge fan of "touching raw foods" but would for their health if it meant a healthier ferret. How long can the raw, whole prey etc. be left in the cage with them before removing? The only closeness to raw I have gotten is Archetype-1 with kibble epigen 90 for example. Can you place the bag of frozen meat into a container of warm water for half an hour, not hot, to dethaw it if you need to? Some of my ferts are used to chicks. Oh, forgot, that would be in the variety too. Our local grocers are more of the streamlined normal human stuff with all the hormones you don't want, so it'd be a trip through rush hr likely to get the raw. If it really would be better, I believe I'd be willing to get there. I can post a list of prices of needed. I do not believe I would have the time to raise my own prey. I have a scale, I have any blender needed IF necessary, and have the egg shells needed if necessary as well. Oh, what probiotics do you recommend? Thanks! Sorry for all the questions, but if I am going to do this, I want to do it safely, and work out with as little fuss as possible. Smooth sailing, one can hope for, right?
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Post by lumene on Mar 11, 2012 17:37:27 GMT -5
Apply for a Mentor. They teach you everything you need to know.
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Post by Heather on Mar 11, 2012 17:54:31 GMT -5
Is there a way to keep the costs within my budget feeding whole prey only? ( 100 or so a month or within that area?) **I found that for myself, I had to feed a mixture to get the variety needed to feed a healthy diet and still be cost effective. I feed commercial ground, my own grind, frankenprey and prey** Do I have to feed a combo of raw and whole prey to: 1. switch to whole prey or a combo **Depending on your ferrets you may have to feed a combo to get them started. Some ferrets are just not into eating whole prey right off. They don't recognise it as food and getting them to even taste can be an exercise in frustration. ** 2. for whole prey and trusted sources, all I can think of is one source (rodentpro and I was thinking large pinkies, medium, 1 week and 2 week quail, a rabbit occasionally (spendy) and GP ** For prey you're going to have to feed not only a variety of species but a variety of ages, leaning closer to adult than baby and youth (baby animals are candy or treats...they don't cover the nutrient needs of an adult ferret, especially calcium). You "need" a minimum of 3 different protein sources the more the better** 3. If I need a sitter, do any of you face issues? They would come to my place, but I would need to make sure things are clearly laid out as far as diet goes **I've had no problems. I create packages that are clearly marked and then leave very specific instructions that need to be followed** 4. What supplements are needed to keep the diet complete for them and healthier than a kibble? **I try to feed as natural as possible. I feed taurine when I'm feeding commercial grinds (too much handling destroys nutrients), calcium if I notice someone isn't eating bone the way they're supposed to. Some of the little ones may get special supplements to cover whatever disease they're fighting as well, but for the most part I don't supplement. Oh, I do give oils...olive oil and either small marine fish oil or seal oil** We do have a pet food deli about a half an hr drive from me that does carry raw. I'm not a huge fan of "touching raw foods" but would for their health if it meant a healthier ferret. **I've known vegans who will handle meat for their wee ones. You can use gloves if you don't like handling raw meat. One of my mentees actually not only used gloves but used a small plastic clothes pin on her nose so she wouldn't have to smell the blood. In the end she used neither How long can the raw, whole prey etc. be left in the cage with them before removing? **Depends what you feed. Ground can be left up to around 4 to 6 hrs, whole meats can be left up to 12 hrs and whole prey up to 24 hrs. Ferrets won't usually eat food that has turned or that their systems cannot handle. Though they will stash food and leave it for disgusting lengths of time and eat that Around here that's referred to as "ferret jerky"...they think it to be the ultimate treat...we think it's disgusting ** The only closeness to raw I have gotten is Archetype-1 with kibble epigen 90 for example. **I've never fed either. I've been feeding raw food for over 15 yrs. Those kibbles weren't out at that time.** Can you place the bag of frozen meat into a container of warm water for half an hour, not hot, to dethaw it if you need to? **You can, I just feed it frozen The guys had mousecicles last night ** Some of my ferts are used to chicks. Oh, forgot, that would be in the variety too. **It is, just remember they have little nutritional value. Consider them treats or the occasional "junk" food meal. Ferrets love them** Our local grocers are more of the streamlined normal human stuff with all the hormones you don't want, so it'd be a trip through rush hr likely to get the raw. If it really would be better, I believe I'd be willing to get there. I can post a list of prices of needed. I do not believe I would have the time to raise my own prey. **I only raise mice. I've got suppliers that supply me with rats, rabbits and quail. I've found a supplier for chicks but it's a fair distance for me to get them ** I have a scale, I have any blender needed IF necessary, and have the egg shells needed if necessary as well. **The scale is an absolute must, to keep track of your wee ones' weights. Weekly during the switch and monthly once things settle down. A blender or food processor is a bonus piece of equipment, especially if you have to grind up mice to convince the wee ones to eat them. Egg shell powder is also a necessary component for soupies. I hope that I've answered most of your questions. Keep them coming ;D ciao Oh, what probiotics do you recommend? Read more: holisticferret60.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newbies&action=display&thread=6149#ixzz1oqkam9un
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2012 18:08:22 GMT -5
In response to whether or not you need to feed raw and whole prey together to get a balanced diet, the answer is no. Whole prey alone provide everything nutrionally that your little ones need, providing the prey is old enough, so for example, baby mice and chicks do not provide enough nutrition. During the switching stages, soup is normally used that is made up of a variety of raw foods, but after that, raw isn't nescessary. Most people just feed raw or a mixture or raw and whole to save money, as the whole prey is more expensive. Sign up to the mentoring program and they'll talk you through everything though. Good luck!
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 11, 2012 18:40:07 GMT -5
That was very good info! Signed up, just waiting to get an assigned mentor. Until then, The questions I thought would help prepare me. You guys have been amazing answering them! So can someone give me an example of raw costs, whole prey, then a combo? I noticed on the pet food deli's site they have raw quail ad rabbit and pheasant and ground elk with chicken bones for example, bison, lamb, chicken, FR chicken and turkey etc. with and without organs. Now do these places "normally" let you order just liver for ex? I know I'd have to call. I would assume so, but don't want to jump the gun either. So mostly adult whole prey? How does this look? chicks ( treats) and 1-2 week quail plus adult large pinkies ( treats) medium and large mice medium GP and large and the same for rabbit? (medium to large) sounds like a big prey meal! I am guessing to share that rabbit. Ok, I can deal with the raw i think. I use gloves anyways when preparing the wysong as it does say to be alert on the label as if it were moist. Figured that I would do it anyways. I am ok with smell. The only thing that gets me is liver, I can pick that up a mile away i swear. I just do not want to go submit an order unless I have the right idea first. I noticed the savings the more you added almost. Almost made sense to pack a box full. My only worry is being able to switch effectively and not letting it waste. I am already putting in 150 at least in kibble and litter. I'm OK with that, comes with responsibility. I just don't want it reaching sky high. That's a small car payment there for the lovely fuzzies
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 11, 2012 18:45:40 GMT -5
OH and heather, not sure why, but the link for probiotics brings me back to this thread. Is it me or did you by accident copy this link?
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Post by Heather on Mar 11, 2012 18:56:27 GMT -5
A good sized rabbit (depending on breed) can feed a number of fuzzies. I'm presently feeding 9 ...well 8, Atreyu is on soupy. I got him about a month ago and he's about 3yrs. He was great at jumping in and eating chunky soups but not real big on the whole prey and frankenprey. Most of my guys are sickies (run hospice) so they won't eat as much as a couple of healthy fuzzes. Males usually eat more than females. Odin and Thor will tuck into 2 to 3 large mice, so will Lady "B" but Fun-Go will only eat 2 large mice. You could easily cover 3 or 4 meals on an average sized rabbit. Prices....I probably can't help you....we seem to pay a lot more for meats than you do in the US. I also use a coop and have searched out my suppliers. I pay $3 per large rat. The mice I raise (they cost me a lot more than they should but I know what goes into them). The rabbits, I pay $4/lb (fully clothed with their innards in). Meats I buy at the grocery store...I search out sales. I buy all my chicken, organ meats, hearts, pork through the coop. I also get all my salmon through the coop. I don't think I spend $100 a month to feed 3 cats, 9 ferrets and a wolfhound a raw diet. There are times when as a lump sum it costs more but when you spread it out I don't think it costs that much. I do know that I save huge, when it comes to vetting costs because my guys are less likely to dehydrate and suffer a lot of the illnesses that are caused by this and they seem to recuperate faster too. My vet swears that it's diet related. That's a saving that has to be considered too ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 11, 2012 19:15:42 GMT -5
very good! yes vet savings and healthy ferts are a major plus! yes willing to do a lump sum over a period of time to help save and in the end it does truly save money by doing it that way. If I order, might as well pack that box full. I'll see what natural grocers I can find around the area, this would be a good choice when switching. Doesn't make sense to ship in meat and organs already available somewhere I would think, the whole-prey maybe but not the raw.My search shall continue tomorrow for what I may need. Need to decide if I am doing strictly whole prey once converted or a combo. Lots to think about for sure! Thanks for helping with the questions, I know they can get redundant on forums I am sure.
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Post by Heather on Mar 11, 2012 22:30:45 GMT -5
Sorry, I used a copy instead of a quote...so it always gives a thread link at the bottom where the copy came from...I forgot to delete it. I don't use probiotics. ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 12, 2012 0:57:22 GMT -5
Sorry, I used a copy instead of a quote...so it always gives a thread link at the bottom where the copy came from...I forgot to delete it. I don't use probiotics. ciao good to know. so not probiotic sources? I am assuming here as some food contains it and I have just the probiotic powder form. I want you to look at my list before I check out at haretoday. good source first? ok so here it is, dont laugh LOL!!! I may have gone overboard but I just couldn't figure out amounts yet, so figured go for variety and get the soupy items asap. I also will be using a powder bought calcium that was listed as a link and have included the Taurine from here. I can always substitute the egg shell method and I do have a grinder/blender just for their food. Its a magic bullet and works wonders when pulverizing things. Yep got the blenders and scale too that measure by ounce/gram/etc. yes its a large bill and I'll need to for sure add on at least 50.00 shipping but stocking up will be good IMO. Let me know thoughts of this list. keep in mind the treats such as chicks and 1 week quail are on the way from rodentpro. I compared prices to my local and it was just as high or pretty close to driving etc. I'd rather if it breaks to be even to have it shipped and spend more time with them as my heart loves them so much, figured that would be best given the gas fees and inconvenience. Now you promise not to laugh. Take a look and see if you'd adjust something for my soup and for the raw/whole prey diet. I have decided to go both. If I can find a local coop I will, but this should tie me over and it seems to be a variety here. I want to see whom will touch what. Hopefully all, but then I best prepare for another order when they eat me out of house and home The whole chicken or pheasant etc, I'll just butcher it into pieces if needed. Turkey Pieces 3 lbs Turkey Pieces 3 lbs $16.74 Beef Heart, 5 lb Beef Heart, 5 lb $9.99 Boneless Chicken Breast Cubes, 2 lb Boneless Chicken Breast Cubes, 2 lb $15.56 Chicken Hearts, 2 lbs Chicken Hearts, 2 lbs $9.98 Duck Hearts, 2 lbs Duck Hearts, 2 lbs $5.59 Duck Pieces 3 lbs Duck Pieces 3 lbs $20.94 Whole Pheasant, 3 lbs Whole Pheasant, 3 lbs $20.99 Goose Pieces 3 lbs Goose Pieces 3 lbs $17.85 Chicken Livers, 2 lbs Chicken Livers, 2 lbs $7.98 Whole Dressed Quail, 4 per bag Whole Dressed Quail, 4 per bag $29.98 Whole skinned-gutted rabbit Whole skinned-gutted rabbit $33.98 UNSCENTED 100% Icelandic Salmon Oil, 17 oz Bottle UNSCENTED 100% Icelandic Salmon Oil, 17 oz Bottle $23.99 Turkey Livers, 2 lbs Turkey Livers, 2 lbs $3.09 Adult Mice, 25 per bag Adult Mice, 25 per bag $43.50 3 Week Old Quail, 12 per bag 3 Week Old Quail, 12 per bag $14.99 Adult Quail, 8 per bag Adult Quail, 8 per bag Thats a 200.00 order plus shipping. Thoughts? Obviously the adult quail, Mice, and bones on including some organs are benefial I would say. The reason I believe in probiotics is because it can balance out the gut floura to new foods especially I would assume, has advantages. Excited, ye worried about switching. I want it to be very smooth transitioning. Can't expect it but I have hopes! I posted a want ad as well for the whole prey see if I get any bites. thats the right oil right? suggestions allowed! I am wanting to submit my order but only if it looks to be accurate to switching, which at this point is 99%.
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 12, 2012 1:05:52 GMT -5
BTW edit: this is Variety isn't it? I know they prefer the wysong archtype over kibble lately. I think they are spoiled and wait for me to refill versus their kibble as much. But time to get on the raw and maybe even add my dig as she is a breed with low life longevity and needs the raw imo but she can have ground as well as bones to be used frequently. Easier for her as I know she will eat anything.
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Post by Heather on Mar 12, 2012 2:08:23 GMT -5
Looks good. Not going to laugh, not at all. Good variety . Prices?? couldn't even help you there...but you've got good variety. As part of your switching kit you may want to get some pumpkin...just plain pumpkin. It helps to firm up stools, during switches but can also be used to move hairballs and other stoppages that aren't too firmly lodged. I feed it regularly in my ground mixes as it takes the place of fur when you're creating frankenprey. Sounds like a good start. I would go into the mentoring section and read through some of the personal mentoring threads. You will find different methods of starting the switches. Each of the mentors has a different switching style and things that work for them. You can't post to those threads but they're there for anyone who's considering starting a switch. There's some really good information in those active threads and you can go into the archives too, which will also allow you to see some of the closing menus that were given to graduate. You can also read through some of the changes that were needed to graduate and they will give you an idea as to what would make a good menu for your little ones ciao
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 12, 2012 4:27:52 GMT -5
awesome! yes pumpkin didnt think of but agree. It goes both ways usually, heps if stolls soft or too hard. Its a weird combo. I feel better now that i got the variety down. I will surely take a look at the mentor threads. Think i'll get this for now so its here and ready. I was about to add GP, but then thought to self if I'd be able to portion it. I surely can try, but its hard thinking of it when although we don't have any GP, I have seen them at the petshops so makes it a tad harder. Loving it! excited about raw food, what has my life turned into? LOL. May make one order at rodentpro to get more furry and feathery variety of larger whole prey to srtock up, but I think I am in a good spot now. Very productive help, thanks so much! I'm off to look at mentor threads before i hit submit button for payment. However I know i can use all of these things and I aimed for adults this time as I have some treats coming. Its so helpful. I can answer questions about a whole lot of tother topics. Just not whole prey and raw at the moment! Some day! :crosses all crossables"!!
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 12, 2012 4:29:51 GMT -5
BTW what was the oil for and maybe its a stupid question!?
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Post by ferretlove67 on Mar 12, 2012 4:57:32 GMT -5
BTW what was the oil for and maybe its a stupid question!? just ask maybe due to coat and fur I would guess? also do breeders have issues weaning kits on whole/raw diets? or do they combo so the new home can choose? random question I know. Was just reading some mentor threads where someone mentioned a raw diet etc and breeding. hmmm, would love to see more breeders doing raw to promote the health maybe there for all, or is that naive of me to think it happens? interesting for sure. anywhoo, you've got me convinced I'm on the right track. I don't think its a fail to buy, its good. I want to be 200% ready when i get a mentor. I'll have it shipped next day maybe this time and that should be here tuesday of they can handle this order. Its kind of large! [img src="http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/ i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h352/JW_2012/Emoticons/0_0.gif"].gif[/IMG] p.s. feel like i'm spamming the forum but this is exciting to me. They do not teach you this in vet school etc. Its a kibble only. So, its been a huge eye-opneer for me and I am loving it. Time to move the items in deep freezer to the people freezer. Squish!
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