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Post by jadewolf on Nov 28, 2011 10:36:17 GMT -5
You know how, the minute you decide "I'm calling the vet, NOW," they come out of it? Yep. I weighed Dominique, and he's 100g heavier than he was Sept 6th. This morning, his fur is noticeably less thin, and I can only barely feel his ribs. I don't even know how he did that overnight. I'd still be happy to have others look at his pictures, but I am a lot less panicked.
ETA: I called and left a message for my vet anyway, with the info on his weight, hair loss, and general looking like a mistreated shelter ferret; we'll discuss him and Will tomorrow when she's in.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 28, 2011 22:08:55 GMT -5
;D That's a ferret for you! Since right now I seem to be seeing adrenal everywhere(two on lupron, one going to be going to the vet for examination for it ), Heather popped in and had a look at the pics for me. How long has he been on raw? Could it be there's not enough fat in the diet? The fur does look thin around the shoulders but I wouldn't think adrenal right off. How much fur is on his belly? Around his back legs? A funky shed? Seems to be a few of those right now What has been his actual weight loss? He looks almost like the switch has rearanged some of his fat...that was poorly worded . He doesn't look thin....just thinner if that makes sense. He's a silver so they are prone to funky sheds anyway and accompany that with the whole switch (which might just cause a strange shed too) I would be tempted to take him to a vet just to rule out something serious but at a year and a half....I would really prefer to be tempted to lean toward a stress shed....switch x actual shed. ciao
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Post by jadewolf on Nov 29, 2011 13:28:40 GMT -5
Detailed fur inspection report: He's got very thin fur on his hind shins, normal on the back upper legs and base of tail, super thick fur on his tail, thin fur along the sides of his body, regular fur along the top of his body. His belly fur is fairly thin, especially the hind part. Although he is silver, so any thinness of hair looks much greater. And he has thin fur in his front armpits, which are apparently ticklish! Oh, and his front shoulders, where he looked very thin the other day, now have a thick coat of much shorter fur.
I myself realized about a week ago that he'd been getting fairly lean meats for a week or two, and started upping the fat by mixing in fattier meats and garnishing lean ones with fat trimmed from our dinner meat before cooking.
It's so late for it to still be shedding, but I guess I just have odd ferrets. Snorri put on his winter coat and flub in 2 days a month ago. I'll still talk with the vet about it, but signs seem to be pointing to a weird shed. I always think someone's adrenal when it's shedding time.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 29, 2011 13:57:13 GMT -5
It could be adrenal, but does sound like a weird shed with his sides like that. And the lack of fat would certainly explain the weight loss!
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Post by jadewolf on Nov 30, 2011 23:09:46 GMT -5
Well, that's the thing, he's gained 100 grams in the past 2 months, but apparently in weird places. Anyway, vet said she really thinks it's just an odd shed but we'll check in again in a week.
They got bone- in chicken yesterday and a meaty pork bone today. All continues about the same.
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Post by Sherry on Nov 30, 2011 23:50:12 GMT -5
Glad the vet thinks so as well You likely won't know for sure for a while yet, unfortunately But fingers crossed! And sounds great on the meal front
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Post by jadewolf on Dec 5, 2011 16:02:14 GMT -5
Let's see, Snorri and Dominique keep eating well. Today is turkey breast with skin and a garnish of lamb fat. Lamb fat is not going over well, but I got Snorri to eat some by mixing in some wysong freeze dried beef. Yesterday was turkey giblets, in a medium to small dice, with wysong beef mixed in because they were not keen on giblets. They did eventually eat them, though. Day before was bone in chicken, and fatty beef before that.
I have not seen Dominque eating kibble in weeks. Snorri still eats kibble if he doesn't like the day's meat, or forgot where he hid it, or kibble seems more convenient. It's hard to tell, but I'd estimate he's on at least half raw, possibly more than 3/4. I usually try to redirect him to the meat, which sometimes works. But I can only do it so much, I'll drive myself crazy jumping up every time I hear kibble crunching.
Minnie is a special princess. I'm thinking she hates the texture of the raw. After she eats it, she licks her lips a half dozen times. If she accidentally touches a big squooshy piece, she backs away vary fast. She's eating a teaspoon or two of kibble soup with finely chopped meat 2-3 times a day, if she feels like it.
Will is still not at 100%, so still not on any raw.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 5, 2011 19:27:42 GMT -5
Good for the first two! Sounds like they are doing really well, in spite of Snorri's backsliding Are they eating liver and heart yet? Sorry- can't remember right now! Either/or, we need to start balancing their diet a bit more now. Let's set up a tentative menu with 4 days consumable bone, 2 days muscle meats(at least one with heart), one meal of liver(2oz per ferret) and another organ if you can get it. The last meal can be either bone, muscle, or heart- whichever you prefer And yes, Minnie is definitely a very special girl ;D How does she do with the Wysong's? Or will she touch it?
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Post by jadewolf on Dec 8, 2011 22:55:50 GMT -5
Sorry about the delay replying. I'm doing a lot around marketing my massage business, so while I'm still working on the switch, checking in on the board sometimes falls out of my brain.
The turkey giblets are a diced mix of gizzard, heart, and liver. I gave them a second meal of it today, since I thawed all the giblets on the 4th and wasn't comfortable re-freezing or leaving them raw much longer. They also eat beef heart, reluctantly. I'm now out of organ meat, though, I need to go buy some to have on hand now, and find a source I like for regular supply.
Also, are there animals whose livers are less strong tasting than cow? I anticipate rather a lot of argument about the liver.
Alright, menu it is. The only consumable bones I have are turkey neck and chicken ribs. What were the other edible bones? Rabbit? My first menu attempt feels very heavy on the poultry with bones. Also, how much of a bone-in meal should be bone? I've been going with roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of the volume in bones, give or take.
Okay, here's my go at it, starting yesterday: Weds: turkey muscle meat Thurs: turkey heart, liver, and gizzard Fri: beef muscle meat (I know that’s the second muscle meat and should be bone, but I already took it out to thaw) Sat: turkey neck Sun: heart Mon: chicken with bone Tues: turkey neck
Oh, and Minnie loves the Wysong freeze dried beef and Pheasant. I sometimes crumble it over her meaty soup to get her to eat it.
Thanks!
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Post by jadewolf on Dec 11, 2011 18:04:55 GMT -5
Went to Wholefoods and found they had lamb liver and pork kidney, but no heart. The boys got bone in chicken today as I attempt to locate some heart. But liver and kidney are now in stock. I'm going to go search the board on this, but I'm wondering how people usually serve organs- the small chunks method has been a failure for everything but heart. Do you puree them with better tasting stuff?
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Post by Sherry on Dec 11, 2011 19:09:31 GMT -5
I somehow missed this I am so very sorry! I actually had to puree the liver and add 1tsp heavy cream per ferret for a year before they'd eat it on their own And if you can manage to find chicken livers, they will most likely take those easier, since they aren't quite as strong tasting. For you menu, I know that's just what you are feeding this week, but for a final one we'll need to add in 2-3 more bone in meals. Great that you can get both liver and kidney ! Hopefully with pureeing and adding some cream(or whatever else will lure them in) they'll eat it willingly. Otherwise, you'll be stuck like I was with hand feeding liver soupies once a week ;D And although you've got 3 proteins in there, if you could manage to switch one of the muscle meat meals to something like pork, that would be great
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Post by jadewolf on Dec 11, 2011 20:59:54 GMT -5
The ferrets agree with you about the pork. They allege they could die of pork deprivation, and also object to the bones I keep leaving in their meat. I've got some pork fat trimmings I'll be adding in with the poultry, but long term they'll definately be getting pork regularly.
I also see in perusing menus that many people do different meals AM and PM, and also mix several different items in meals. I worry my boys would just eat the good stuff and leave the rest. If they have a choice, they certainly aren't eating much bone. Also, Snorri would definately steal the best parts from Dominique. Why do people do the mixes, and how does it work?
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Post by Sherry on Dec 12, 2011 10:48:40 GMT -5
I used to do the mixed meals, but simply found it easier for me to do one type a day as a rule. Something else I do when I can stock up is have a "bone in" box, a muscle meat box, a heart box, and an organ box. When I get the meat in, I chop and baggie enough for a meal, and put each type in their appropriate area. They essentially get whatever protein I grab for that day ;D I'd have 4 bone in days where they may get chicken, turkey neck, lamb neck, cornish hen, quail or rabbit. Muscle meat days same thing, and again on heart days and organ meal. As for them leaving the stuff they aren't so fond of, give them that one overnight ;D They seem to eat most in the early mornings. But just using one protein a day if fine too.
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Post by jadewolf on Dec 12, 2011 16:49:56 GMT -5
Ah, good to know.
So, went to the vet, she thinks that both Will and Dominique have adrenal disease. Whee! With Dominique she just gave him a melatonin implant. With Will she thinks he needs a deslorin implant, which they ordered and are due to arrive in January. His blood work was clean for anything that might be causing the stomach upset, so that remains a mystery, But she said I should go ahead and slowly re-start him on some raw and see how he does. Just when I was getting used to the easy life of not wrestling anybody to feed them anything.
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Post by Sherry on Dec 13, 2011 10:30:31 GMT -5
One thing to be aware of with Will if he is adrenal. Something with adrenal disease has been known to help supress insulinoma, and when it's treated the blood sugars CAN dip again since it's no longer suppressed by the adrenal(if that makes any sense ) It's possible his stomach upset is simply related to the nausea sometimes caused by the insulinoma as well. And if we only ever get him on a raw soupie, that's good too It will still give his body some extra reserves and help balance the blood sugars better as well
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