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Post by Sherry on Oct 16, 2011 12:16:56 GMT -5
Sorry, don't mean to laugh at you, but can't help it! Ferrets Who knows why they do what they do! Your plan sounds good for all of them. Keep doing that for a couple of days and let me know how they are doing on the new sizes/bones
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 16, 2011 20:15:49 GMT -5
I totally understand, we have to laugh or we'd go crazy! Turns out someweasel did indeed stash the bones in a heap in the back of the feeding den- it must've taken a while to transport all the tiny pieces back there! I put them back in the bowl, and Snorri and Dominique realized I'm not giving them any tasty ground pork until they eat it. They both ate a teaspoon or so of the minced bone. There were some melodramatic coughs. I'm trying to overcome my human fear of swallowing a bone, and the little drama queens are not helping.
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Post by Sherry on Oct 16, 2011 21:48:30 GMT -5
They never do help ;D just to help calm your mind a bit- I HAVE had mine get a bone stuck a couple of times. But never in their throat, unlike with kibbles. It's in the teeth. Yes, they hack and gag and paw at the mouth like they were choking, but if you scruff them and look, you'll see it caught. Just flick it out with a fingernail, and they go right back to eating
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 18, 2011 16:50:02 GMT -5
Mostly posting the following for my own use, so that when I forget what I did I can refer back. I don't need a response unless you see something you want to say something about.
Yesterday Snorri and Dom ate the rest of my current supply of chicken bones, minced over chicken pieces, for breakfast. For dinner everyone had beef heart. No one was thrilled but everyone ate about the amount they eat of other meats.
Today is beef. I'm unconvinced Minnie has eaten any; she's very good at licking off the soup. Will ate a bowlful of pieces about fingernail-sized in soup. Snorri and Dom chowed down, if I hadn't pre-diced this I'd move them to larger chunks.
I gave them a raw egg just now. Dominique is such a trooper, he kept sniffing and almost licking it, since it was in the food bowl, but couldn't quite get himself to eat any since it was new. Once I put on a few drops of ferretone, Snorri and Dom ate the whole thing. Will refused to have any part of it, even when I rubbed it on his teeth while scruffing him. He wouldn't yawn or taste it.
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 20, 2011 15:37:37 GMT -5
Yesterday was ground pork, to everyone's delight. They ate probably half a pound between 8am and 9pm!
Will's was mixed with watered down soup. It took convincing to get him to try it, but then he licked the bowl clean. I tried just straight pork, and then pork with a few drops of Tone, and he wasn't having it, even scruffed.
Minnie's had to be mixed with a pretty good quantity of soup, but she ate a semi-decent amount, maybe a half tablespoon. I tried less soup in the mix and she wasn't having it.
Yesterday night and today is chicken, with chopped bone for Snorri and Dominique. They are not thrilled about the bone. I'm trying not giving them more chicken until they eat the bone. I did see them go back and eat various stashed pieces, which made me happy. At least they don't stash it and then forget that it's food. I checked all the hidey holes and they appear not to have stashed any pork and left it. Snorri tries, but most of it falls out of his mouth while he's running, which cracks me up.
Will ate the mix of soup, mince, and fingernail-sized shreds happily.
Minnie licked the soup off the chicken, then I finger fed her several slivers while she attempted to throw herself off my lap. But then, 4 hours later, she had a horrible vomiting spell. I have no idea how, but she vomited up a piece of chicken skin along with whatever else was in her stomach. Vet said observe, and unless she has another spell or other symptoms she should be okay. She's eating, drinking, and 15 minutes before the vomiting spell she pooped- not the prettiest poop, but not too bad. I think I will let her off the hook for chicken for a while!
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Post by Sherry on Oct 20, 2011 15:48:32 GMT -5
Looks like Minnie decided to stress out over it all, silly girl. is it even possible to move more slowly with her? Ok, with her for now, let her have her soup, just a wee bit thicker than normal so she can get used to it. We are going to work with Snorri and Dom to get them on a full raw diet. Give them just bone in meals for the next two days, prepped like you've been doing it. Since Will is doing well with the slivers, add a few more for him. When you make Minnie's soup, make sure there's eggshell powder, heart, and liver. That way it's balanced and you can have her on it for a longer period of time if needed. I'm starting to think the best bet is to get the others transitioned first. That way we can focus on her. Now, is anyone still getting kibble besides Will?
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 20, 2011 15:57:55 GMT -5
Fast reply! I can move more slowly with her. I'm making her a separate dish anyway. The soup does have eggshell and a small amount of chicken heart and liver, but probably not even 5%. I'll make up a new batch with more, although, she is still eating almost as much kibble as she used to. She never really ate even a substantial meal of soup and meat, and often once I let her fling herself free she'd go eat kibble.
The kibble is still out, since they're free range and I think Will would kill me with his brain if I caged him up to keep the kibble away from the others. I am going through it at about 1/3 the rate I used to. I maybe once a day I see Dominique or Snorri eating it, they much prefer meat. If I refill their meat bowl, they leave off the kibble right away. I'm working on keeping it with something in it, but it's tough to gauge what with their stashing habit.
I could try for the next few days caging Snorri and Dominique with their raw and no kibble (with free range playtimes where I put away the kibble bowl of course). Would that make sense, as we're pushing them to totally transition?
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Post by Sherry on Oct 20, 2011 19:16:16 GMT -5
It does make it more difficult when one has insulinoma. Since Will is doing so well with his soup/meat mix, do you think he'd be ok if you removed the kibble for maybe 2 hours prior to feeding him and Minnie? You know him best. And the majority are ok with only two hours without. I think you may see Minnie's appetite go up if you can do this a couple times a day. Since Snorri and Dom are used to free range, they are simply going to tantrum if you start caging them unfortunately. They'll think they are being punished. Are any of them caged at night? If so, give Snorri and Dom only raw then. Minnie could even go in with them if they get along.
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 22, 2011 12:35:30 GMT -5
Whew, what a day yesterday. Snorri and Dominique have been getting minced bone mixed with minced chicken since your post, with a few larger pieces of chicken as well. My floor is now covered with a light sprinking of bone bits. I'm pretty sure they've eaten a good amount, but a good amount has also been spat out all over the floor. Yesterday I was home until 3, so I took out the kibble and gave Will soup with chicken every 3 hours. He ate well, and chewed up some pieces where the knife didn't quite separate the pieces totally. He seems fine with chewing larger pieces. I'm trying to come up with a consistent system for slowly watering down the soup, because he notices any change that's not tiny. Minnie was unimpressed with the chickeny soup, but did get thicker regular soup.
ETA: just gave everyone more, Dominique ate a bunch of the bone/chicken mix without spitting out bones, and Minnie ate a few shreds of chicken in soup without being held down. Yay!
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Post by Sherry on Oct 22, 2011 15:20:01 GMT -5
Progres!!!! That's always nice to see Alright, let's step it up yet again for Dom and Snorri. Try taking either a chicken neck or wing, and just chop it up, leaving some intact bone. If it's the neck, basically segment it. If the wing, section it, cut the middle between the two bones, smash up the larger drumette. Then cut all those in half again. Let me know how they do. Since Will is doing well with some chewing, try giving him a few small pieces by themselves at first, see what he does with them. You may have to pop a couple in his mouth so he realizes what it is. If he doesn't take it yet, that's fine. Give him his soup thickened a tiny bit. But keep trying him with them every couple of days. And if you like, try Minnie on something the consistency of a very wet ground meat. She may or may not eat it. But if she does, you are a major step ahead with her. For modifying how you water it down, make it nice and thick at the beginning and freeze it that way. When you give it to them, you can just add a bit of water at a time until it's the right consistency. Once the two boys are eating the bone reasonably well, it's time to start introducing different proteins
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 23, 2011 15:58:24 GMT -5
I caved and bought some chicken wings, as I was utterly out of bone options. I did cut them in halves or thirds and have given them a dish. Dominique started right in chewing pieces off of a hunk, and I saw him gnawing on the bone. He eventually gave up and went back for a different piece as he couldn't crack the bone himself yet, but it looked like a good start. Snorri's still sleeping. Will's eating slightly larger ribbons in a little soup.
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 24, 2011 11:07:27 GMT -5
I think I was a bit optimistic with the size of the wing chunks. I also gave them way too much at once, so they stashed it all and ate kibble all night. This AM I gave them 2 hunks, but I cut the bone up into about 1/4" pieces with kitchen shears. The flesh was kind of sliced up but still partly attached. Dominique's a little champ, he gnaws off pieces and tries for the bone. Snorri is more dubious, he stashes them and maybe eats one bit off. This am I've had the kibble out of the room, and I souped Will and Minnie at 9 and 11. They didn't eat much at 11, but were distinctly put out about the lack of kibble. I'll try again in a bit before I put the kibble back because I have to go out.
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Post by Sherry on Oct 24, 2011 20:37:16 GMT -5
For mine, I've found the best bet with the wings was to segment, cut the middle in half, smash the larger bone with a hammer or cleaver, then cut all of that in half. Lots of steps, I know, but it really does help them to build up their jaw strength.
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Post by jadewolf on Oct 24, 2011 21:26:11 GMT -5
We were having a power struggle, evidently. They were caged from 2pm until 9pm because they passed out in the cage hammock anyway, so I gave Will and Minnie their kibble and caged Snorri and Dom with the wing chunks. But they barely touched them. They clearly hadn't gone off, but they got that dry sticky feeling, and apparently their majesties disapprove. Finally at 9 after they woke up I freed them, threw out the 12-hour-old bits, gave them two new chunks with the bone broken up, and they both started chowing down. They haven't eaten all the bone, but they sure gnawed on it.
Will is doing decently with soup with meat in. Minnie is not thrilled, but she ate the beef mince in soup tonight with a little convincing.
I think we all need a break from chicken before I snap and start lecturing them about being obligate carnivores while brandishing a chicken wing.
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Post by Sherry on Oct 24, 2011 22:49:35 GMT -5
Been there, done that ;D okay, let's try introducing a different protein and see how they take to it. Turkey and pork are big hits here
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