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Post by Sherry on Sept 25, 2011 17:17:55 GMT -5
Yes, it is. With the mince, you can leave it in for about 6-8 hours, the chunks up to 12. Just soup, no more than 4-6 hours. When they start on whole pieces, they can stay in for about 24 hours.
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 25, 2011 21:18:24 GMT -5
They actually ate some of the soup and chicken mince that I left in this afternoon. The kibble's been out since I posted earlier. Just now I brought in a bowl of minced lamb with soup. We had lamb for dinner and there was a lot of tiny scraps from trimming the fat. I put in about 2/3 meat and 1/3 fat and just enough soup to fill the cracks between the pieces. Everyone ate at least some, and Will and Minnie took to it pretty fast. Snorri ate the least, I think because he wanted to run off and eat in his feeding den and then he forgets that he was eating and wanders off. How much fat should be in their diet? I notice that everyone loooves the chicken skin, which usually has a healthy coating of fat attached. I tend to give Will an extra bit of that, since he's ribby right now.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 26, 2011 9:37:07 GMT -5
Their diet can be up to about 30% fat. Don't be surprised by the way if you see white coloured stools when they've had it. That's just the fat Keep them going on the mince for a couple days, then we'll start upping it again.
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 26, 2011 21:57:23 GMT -5
Good to know.
Overnight I put Will and Minnie in the cage with some kibble and left Snorri and Dominique loose with chicken chunks out. They ate a bit. Today the kibble was not available to them all day, and every 3-4 hours I went in to make sure Will ate some soup and everyone else still had food available. Snorri ate plenty. Dominique didn't eat too much all day but chowed down this evening.
I am worried about Will, and to a lesser extent, Minnie. Will looks ucky. Nothing specific, just not right and a bit listless. But he had that before we started the switch. He seems to be eating okay as long as I bring him his own special bowl of mince with soup on. Minnie looks fine, she just eats as little meat as she can.
An hour after evening soup, I put the kibble back in for overnight. Dominique and Minnie dove into it and ate for 15 minutes straight. I don't even know where Dom put it after all the chicken he already ate. Will wasn't interested in the kibble, which I guess is good. But I'm still worried about him.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 26, 2011 23:53:05 GMT -5
I think I'd back off on the switch a bit with him. He may need kibble or something available 24/7 to help prevent a crash. If it's possible, try giving him a bit of soupy every couple of hours. And leave him some kibbles as well. The idea we are going to have to try to work with is filling them up on raw, so they don't eat too much of the kibble you may have to leave there. Once the others get used to the raw, they'll go for that first.
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 28, 2011 10:03:09 GMT -5
Yesterday I was exhausted from constant feeding and backed off a lot. I did do raw in the early evening and late evening, and everyone ate pretty well. This morning everyone but Minnie ate a good amount of raw. She's so odd. If I hold up a tiny sliver of chicken on a finger, she'll lick it off and eat it. If it's any larger than a sliver, she'll lick it in such a way that it falls off my finger. If I somehow stuff a piece big enough to chew in her, she desperately tries to run off with it, although last night she then ate the piece instead of spitting it out in a bed at least. Between every bite of raw off my finger she tries to escape my grasp, but when I come up with another sliver she eats it fine, then resumes the escape attempts.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 28, 2011 10:16:26 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from! You really don't want to make this a chore for yourself. That's where problems come in. Do it at a pace you are comfortable with. As for Minnie, she's still not too sure about this stuff yet. It may take a bit for her to be comfortable with it. But sooner or later, she'll get it. What will she do if you just leave some in the cage with her when you put her back in? She may also just need a slower switch than the others. Will she take soup on her own yet? That might be the route to take with her. Then you just start thickening her soup and finally getting it to the texture of wet ground meat before adding in the slivers.
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 28, 2011 10:48:54 GMT -5
The ferrets have free run of the living room, so I don't close them in the cage. I have been leaving chickeny-y soup out for them to graze on since the start. For a long time they didn't touch it after the initial meal, lately they've been snacking on it a bit. I'm pretty sure just Snorri and Dominique eat it when I'm not there.
Also, the soup part of the mix has not got any ground chicken in it. I haven't got a way to grind it, my food processor just makes it into a large lump with spaghetti trailing off it. I've been hand-chopping Will and Minnie's chicken pretty fine but not quite ground, then adding kibble and broth soup to it. I'll try really going to town on Minnie's with the knife in an attempt to get it really incorporated in the soup.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 28, 2011 12:15:40 GMT -5
Not sure about where you are, but I can pick up ground chicken and turkey from the grocer's here. Might work for you if you can.
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 29, 2011 9:46:04 GMT -5
Hi Sherry. I could get ground chicken or turkey at the grocery, but one of my personal preferences is not to buy conventionally farmed meats. I don't agree with the way conventional or even "organic" or "free range" mass-market meat is produced. Also my vet and I share concerns about what would be in that meat. I know you and others feed grocery store without problems and that's awesome, but I prefer not to. I have a meat share where I buy direct from a farmer I trust to let the animals lead decent lives before slaughter, and the chicken options are whole, or cut into legs and breasts.
Anyway, enough of my lecturing. Last night we humans had pasta with meat sauce, and I gave the ferrets ground beef moistened with soup. You'd think it was cake! Everyone dove in and stuffed themselves. Minnie didn't eat a ton, but more than she does of chicken, with less prompting. I think the sables just don't like chicken much! Certainly Minnie eats red meat much easier. Which is also great, because I get a *lot* of ground beef. At least while transitioning, I can use up some of it on the ferrets!
I think I remember reading that once they're established on raw I don't want to do too much ground, as it's not great for their teeth and is bone free?
Last night I left the remaining beef and soup in their cage where they'd all gone to sleep. As usual they ate little or none of it overnight. Brats.
This AM I put out more chicken, as just the other day I cut up that whole chicken for the ferrets. Minnie and Will got mince with soup and ate about like usual. Snorri and Dominique got wing tips cut into 1/2 to 1" pieces, with the meat cut into shreds hanging off them. They definately knew it was food, and I saw Dom chewing some meat off one of the bones. They ate all the easy targets, the few bits of bone-free meat. At the end I found both big pieces behind the couch stashed, and moved them back into the bowl. We'll see if they come back to them.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 29, 2011 12:37:36 GMT -5
Understood! And kudos to you for not taking the easy way out!!! Anyway- that's fantastic they liked the ground beef use that as their transition tool as well then, for those a bit more hesitant about the smaller bits. It's likely going to be a short while yet before they start eating it on their own in the cage. After all- it's only food right now as long as mum is there ;D that, and they are learning meal times are now out if cage ;D That said, let's try to lure them to eating in the cage. First, start by giving the ones who'll eat on their own the food in the cage prior to bringing them out. Add on oil or whatever else you may want to use. You may even gave to resort to spoon or finger feeding them IN the cage, with the door open.
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 29, 2011 21:52:37 GMT -5
I'm confused about the "in the cage" part. They are never closed in the cage, they just sometimes go in to sleep. The door is still open, and their kibble and water bowls are outside the cage. Will is the only one we still have from when they were caged most of the time, and he's totally used to eating out of the cage. Things continue about the same with most of them. Some progress with Will today. I tried to get Will to eat his mince and soup without me holding him, and I could see him thinking "but now you hold me while I eat!" I spoiled him. We compromised on me holding the bowl for him while he stood on his own paws. He also took a couple slightly larger pieces and chewed off a mouthful, but didn't know yet to then eat the part that dropped off when he chewed through. Minnie ate a bit better, I had to hold her and most of the chicken she ate was fed off my finger, but she didn't spit much out.
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Post by Sherry on Sept 30, 2011 9:25:58 GMT -5
I'm confused about the "in the cage" part. They are never closed in the cage Oops! My mistake ;D Don't know why I thought they were caged! Instead, just keep trying to lure them to where you want them to eat, with the dish on the floor. I actually had to sit with my hand on Boris' back for a while before he'd eat on his own from the dish They do get spoiled easily, and don't want to give it up ;D Good for Will! That's fantastic He'll slowly get the idea over time. The important thing is he's learning HOW to chew. He'll pick up the finer points in a while.with Minnie, when she's comfortable with it, try using a spoon to feed her, and gradually lower the spoon to the dish, so she's eating from the spoon lying in the dish, then start moving it out of the way. Sometimes it's mainly baby steps with these guys. First, they have to learn that yes, this is food and it's edible. But by that time, they think it's only edible on your lap. On the floor, it's suddenly unrecognizeable again for some reason So, baby steps to learn that. But they do- it just takes time and patience
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Post by jadewolf on Sept 30, 2011 22:03:50 GMT -5
Hi Sherry. Just did chicken twice today as was out a lot. Will is progressing towards eating on his own, this time I had fed him 3 pieces then he licked the bowl clean, and finished off Minnie's helping as well. Minnie ate her 3 slivers of chicken then ran off and hid.
Snorri and Dom plowed through their chicken as soon as I put it down. I'm only finding occasional stash pieces now, so they're eating more of it. I'm also not giving them as heaping a bowlful, as it's after they're full that Snorri really starts stashing for later. I try to have 4-5 pieces (still about .5 inch long) left over in case they suddenly decide to eat some later.
I'm going away for a long weekend, so I won't be able to update until Wednesday. Have a good weekend!
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Post by Sherry on Sept 30, 2011 22:29:11 GMT -5
They are doing really well! And Minnie will get there Enjoy your weekend, and I'll talk to you later!
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